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shaner
Premium Member
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB

shaner

Premium Member

RIM's pitch to developers

We're gonna keep on loving you....

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· ahuZ_4oM

milnoc
join:2001-03-05
Ottawa

milnoc

Member

The only developer that really matters today is Rovio, makers of Angry Birds. If you don't have Angry Birds on your mobile device, your product will fail.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues

Premium Member

said by milnoc:

The only developer that really matters today is Rovio, makers of Angry Birds. If you don't have Angry Birds on your mobile device, your product will fail.

It;s available for the Playbook, and to show you how devoid of idea Hollywierd is, they plan on an Angry birds movie.

milnoc
join:2001-03-05
Ottawa

milnoc

Member

That's okay. I've stopped watching Hollywood movies some ten years ago. Every time I try, I usually end up disappointed.

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4 to milnoc

Premium Member

to milnoc
Since Angry Birds is on PlayBook it should be on their new devices.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Some interesting facts.

RIM is dead? Maybe not: Subscriber base continues to rise, 2,000,000 in the last quarter, they're up to 80,000,000 now. Very small increase, but an increase none-the-less. Interestingly, though, it shows that some are holding out for the new BB10. (that, or many are happy with the keyboard telephony)

If it is a good device, there is no reason why RIM can't find themselves back into the thick of things. How would have though when the iPhone 4 was released that Apple market share would drop by close to 50%?

Pesterd
@rogers.com

Pesterd

Anon

BB10 looks interesting and fluid. Really like I won't have to switch apps around to check notifications.
Lets see if it helps them come back in the green.

ekster
Hi there
Premium Member
join:2010-07-16
Sainte-Anne-De-Bellevue, QC

ekster to shaner

Premium Member

to shaner
I just got a Playbook because I needed a tablet and it was silly to pay $500-600 when I can get a 32GB Playbook that does everything I need for $150. And because of that, I'm now considering BB for my next phone as well because I like how well they work when it comes to organization (the main reason why I need the tablet) and I never considered getting a BB in the past.
I believe they still have a good chance to make a big comeback if they do it right.

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to shaner

MVM

to shaner
I read that they actually lost customers for the first time ever this quarter (first time their total number if users didn't increase)...

Anyhow, to put 2 million new customers per quarter into perspective, that's only a bit more than Google activates every day (1.3 million).

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to shaner

Premium Member

to shaner
Quarterly results are announced on Thursday, probably another money losing quarter.

Mark
I stand with my feet
join:2009-07-11
Canada

Mark to shaner

Member

to shaner
$160 for the 64gig I'm pecking on right now, love my playbook
Robrr
join:2008-04-19

Robrr to elwoodblues

Member

to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

Quarterly results are announced on Thursday, probably another money losing quarter.

Notice though there hasn't been hardly a word in advance of tomorrows quarterly results call.

I'm very curious to see how things look now that all the write downs etc have been addressed.
Robrr

Robrr to Guspaz

Member

to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

I read that they actually lost customers for the first time ever this quarter (first time their total number if users didn't increase)...

The usual talking heads were the ones that stated that RIM was losing customers. Thorston Heins stated yesterday at BB Jam Americas that the RIM subscriber base was up to 80 million users now.

Here's something I would like to know about both Apple and Google. How many of the devices they sell are net new customers vs customers upgrading to new phones.

Case in point, Apple has sold 5 million + new iPhones. What percentage is people upgrading from older iPhones to the iP5 and what are percentage is actual new to Apple sales.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone

Premium Member

said by Robrr:

Case in point, Apple has sold 5 million + new iPhones. What percentage is people upgrading from older iPhones to the iP5 and what are percentage is actual new to Apple sales.

RIM has a way to realistically tell through new BIS activations from the cellcos. I'm not sure you could ever realistically figure that out for other platforms.

Though at least for Apple, my gut tells me that the vast majority of iPhone 5 sales are already iPhone users.

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to shaner

MVM

to shaner
Estimates for the active install base for July 2012 for both Android and iOS combined was 640 million, but that number would be a bunch higher by now.

Mark
I stand with my feet
join:2009-07-11
Canada

Mark to shaner

Member

to shaner
Beat the street today, a bit easier to do when you don't issue guidance but solid nonetheless.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues

Premium Member

Yeah lost another 200+ million, but increase cash by 100m.

I love to know whose their accountant is, I want him or her doing my books. You lose money, but increase your cash.....

Mike2009
join:2009-01-13
Ottawa, ON
TP-Link Archer C7
Technicolor DCM476
Grandstream HT701

Mike2009 to Mark

Member

to Mark
said by Mark:

$160 for the 64gig I'm pecking on right now, love my playbook

Playbook is awesome. Picked up my fourth one last week. Everyone loves it here.

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to elwoodblues

Premium Member

to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

I love to know whose their accountant is, I want him or her doing my books. You lose money, but increase your cash.....

Amortization on items purchased during better days would be my guess.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues

Premium Member

It's an accounting trick I really despise, you write something down/off, you haven't "lost" any money, you may have reduced the companies net worth, but not really lost anything.

It's a paper loss.

Where's BryceS to explain it all?

ekster
Hi there
Premium Member
join:2010-07-16
Sainte-Anne-De-Bellevue, QC

ekster

Premium Member

It's not a trick.

Paying 2 million for equipment that's going to last you 10+ years has to be amortized. Otherwise you're going to have a 2 million loss on first year, and nothing for the other 9+ years. The comparative statements will make zero sense if that happens.

Besides, there's the cash flow statement to show you what really happens with cash.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

1 edit

elwoodblues

Premium Member

But you haven't really lost money, you spent that $2m and (assuming no amortization) expense it the first year.

It's simply goes against profit.
Amortization was 184m.
They spend over 360m on R&D

ekster
Hi there
Premium Member
join:2010-07-16
Sainte-Anne-De-Bellevue, QC

1 edit

ekster

Premium Member

Putting the whole amount against profit in a single year would be considered lying because you did not use up all those 2 millions in a single year to make the first year's profit, even if you paid for it all in the first year.

You're expenses can only contain the expenses for the current year. And that's not just what accounts do, these are the tax laws. Long term assets aren't an expense for 1 year only, so they have to to be amortized.

And even if you remove amortization, you can still have a loss on the books, but gain money in the bank. There are also accounts receivable, accounts payable, etc. that can change things. And all these are part of the tax laws.

And that's also why we have cash flow statements. If you want to see the operating profit/deficit for the year, then you look at the statement of income, and if you want to see the company's cash, then look at the cash flow statement.

Edit: as for the real reason why it's done like this... it's because companies can lie and appear profitable when they aren't if you expense the whole thing in the first year. For example: someone takes out 10 billion, buys 8 billion of assets and pre-pays 2 billions for 90% of expenses in the first year for the next 20 years. He has a loss of 9.9 billion in the first year... but then the next 19 years will be incredible profits with almost 0 expenses. He then sells that company for 50+ billion with promises of infinite profits, when in reality, it was a loss all along.

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4 to Gone

Premium Member

to Gone
said by Gone:

Though at least for Apple, my gut tells me that the vast majority of iPhone 5 sales are already iPhone users.

I think that would be a safe bet. Same folks that will buy the iPhone 5S when it comes out in June or whenever.

I am actually looking forward to the BB10, and I sure hope to hell that their camera can be as functional as the Nokia Lumina. (which is significantly better than the iPhone 5)

If they do a good release, they can be back in it.

elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in

elwoodblues to ekster

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to ekster
ENRON, except they were booking future sales today and selling assets to arms length companies.

Guspaz
Guspaz
MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC

Guspaz to shaner

MVM

to shaner
The 920's camera is indeed impressive. I might not like the aesthetics of the device or OS, but the camera is top. I wonder what the relative sensor size is, I suspect that they gain their advantage from managing to fit a larger sensor in there (for low light performance, anyhow).

The optical image stabilization is also pretty neat, although imagine what they could have done had they mixed both optical and digital stabilization. I guess third-party software can do accelerational digital stabilization in post, though, by recording high-resolution accelerometer/gyro data while recording the video. It would have to be done on-phone, though, since once you're off the device all you can do is motion-tracking IS, which can be effective, but has great difficulty identifying legitimate camera movements.