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OneWorld9

join:2010-12-09
East York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to BronsCon

Re: TekSavvy - glorified reseller, not ISP

said by BronsCon:

This isn't the right solution to this problem.

That's your opinion, and I respectfully disagree. Personally, if I had the right kind of tools to provide whatever information TekSavvy required of me, I'd most likely use them - assuming they were made in such a way as to allay the fears that you suggest many would have about them. There are many ways deal with all of the objections you mentioned, but I get the impression you feel you've already come up with all the answers, and you're not wanting to really discuss this - I don't want to waste my time arguing about it.

said by BronsCon:

The best bet is something like Line Monitor (which you're already using) which pings the customer's IP repeatedly, but that also requires that either the user's modem is acting as their router and is configured to respond to ping, the modem is in bridge mode and the user's router is configured to respond to ping, or the user's modem is in bridge mode with no router and their computer isn't running firewall software that drops ping requests. It also requires the user to know their IP address. Anyone who could make that tool work in cases where it won't work by default (and most who know how who look up their own IP address) will already know how to run a traceroute and ping a site.

Agreed, this is a great tool. I am fully aware of the complexity of setting it up. If that could be simplified, and used more universally (again, part of the "customer tools" I'm suggesting), I think it would be a great help in the current situation of "We have no idea what's happening with your connection." I think this is one of many possible ideas, which needs to be fleshed out.

said by BronsCon:

Also, you can bet you ass that TSI is monitoring lines that have trouble tickets open; whether or not the front line reps have access to this monitoring is another issue and if they don't, they should.

I respectfully disagree. TSI Gabe didn't even look at my situation until this thread appeared, from what I gather of his response. Every ticket that was opened with Rogers, came back as "no problem found" - he suggested it was because the tickets were focused on my connection only, and that was a mistake on their part. I would get an e-mail update from TekSavvy, simply stating that my ticket was updated, and to call them if I still had an issue. How things were left at the end of August, I asked them to please escalate this and get it resolved. They said they were in the process of doing that. I saw several e-mail updates, that the tickets were updated, but I heard nothing more from TekSavvy. Luckily, the issue seemed to go away for most of September. When it returned, I asked TekSavvy what had come of all those escalations - can you guess what they said? More of the same.

said by BronsCon:

Customers need to flee the incumbents in droves, making TPIA the incumbents' primary income source (or at least *A* primary source) before the incumbents will play ball.

If that's really the case, this will never happen. In the meantime, those who are TekSavvy customers should suffer? How long are we talking about here? Months? Years? Decades? You're expecting a lot from the average customer, who is here to get a service - and nothing more. Again, TekSavvy needs to be clear about their purpose - if they want to cater to the "We're happy getting subpar service, as long as it means we pay less." crowd (as a couple of posters have suggested - they'd rather not bring the fight to the CRTC), by all means. I'll take my business elsewhere. From the response of TSI David, I don't think that's their operating model - although some of what TSI Marc has said in his last posts do concern me.

If, however, TSI does want the change you're suggesting needs to happen by having a very large base of customers, they need to be able to handle the problems (like mine) that come up. Ideally, they need to prevent these problems from happening. Anything that gets closer to that goal will show prospective new customers that, although the ride may be bumpy at times, TekSavvy will do whatever they need to do to smooth things out. Again, from TSI David's response, it seems that's happening - it shouldn't have taken this long, but here we are.

said by BronsCon:

They want to compete with the incumbents as a "better service offering", where "service" is "internet" and "offering" is "speed and/or usage limits". If they offer you neither better speeds nor higher caps than their competitors, then they have indeed failed at that for you.

Is this TekSavvy's proposition? I haven't heard that from them. I'm sure most people think that "better service" does not exclude a service that is both reliable and well-supported. Personally, I could care less that I get more bandwidth per month, if that means that my connection will be down frequently and/or very slow / unusable for lengthy periods of time. I think it all comes together as a value proposition. "Better" to me, is not limited to what you're suggesting it is.

said by BronsCon:

Of course TSI is trying to make things right; they always do. Yes, it may take some time and often it takes something like this thread to bring a particular issue to the attention of the higher-ups, and that is unfortunate. Something does need to be done about it, and I have a few suggestions for fixing this issue, which I'll discuss, via PM, with a certain of their higher-ups who had shown an interest in another of my ideas.

Indeed, it is unfortunate - it shouldn't be this way. If you feel you can make headway into changing the process, by all means. That would serve us all.


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

I'm not going to address all the points in your reply, as there's not much point; we're not going to see eye to eye on any of this and that's fine. You're a customer, I'm an entrepreneur and businessman, so we have completely differing perspectives.

I will point out that this is a chicken-and-egg problem. In order for Rogers to play ball and give TSI priority support and access to the tools required to properly diagnose these types of issues, TSI would need to become a major source of income for Rogers. In order for TSI to become a major source of income for Rogers, enough people will have to stick with them and convince enough more people to join in and do the same untill, well... until enough people do. One has to happen before the other can.

Of course, there's always creationism. A bit of legislation goes a long way, which is why you don't hear of these issues (as much) with DSL.

As far as TekSavvy's definition of "better service", they've never, as far as I'm aware, publicly declared any of that, one way or the other. My observations over the last 7 years, and through several conversations with various members of their staff seem to indicate that I am correct in my assumptions, however.

I've stuck around following them for so long because I'd really like to see them take off and eventually spread down into the US; I could get them started in 6 states.

Expand your moderator at work

Guru

join:2008-10-01
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

1 edit
reply to youGOT it

Re: TekSavvy - glorified reseller, not ISP

said by youGOT it :

While Andre slags Rocky I can tell you this. If Rocky were to start another ISP tomorrow you would see people move to him fast.

People bought Rocky, his dream, his belief, his stance. People didn't buy TSI internet. He has a big following just by name.

Would be interesting...

+ 1 to this!!
No offense to TSI Marc!

xdrag

join:2005-02-18
North York, ON

1 edit

said by Guru:

said by youGOT it :

While Andre slags Rocky I can tell you this. If Rocky were to start another ISP tomorrow you would see people move to him fast.

People bought Rocky, his dream, his belief, his stance. People didn't buy TSI internet. He has a big following just by name.

Would be interesting...

+ 1 to this!!
No offence to TSI Marc!

People should know that even though Rocky was the face of TSI for a while, Marc has equally been there since the grassroots of TSI. He would be the one upgrading the old routers and munching on Timbits during the mid-night hours. I could be wrong, but for a while, he was also one of the techies to help you if you called in to their support line. I think people should give Marc more credit than he deserves for the success TSI has been.

Just to say Rocky isn't the head-man anymore and TSI is a worse because of that undermines the background individuals that have put in all the effort and hardships since the beginning.

TSI is a different company now than half-a-decade ago because the consumer based has evolved. You need to adapt to survive.


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA

That's a fair assessment, I think. Marc's always been involved at a high level, he was R0CKY's right-hand man.

Expand your moderator at work

awebber
Premium
join:2003-04-02
Gloucester, ON
reply to OneWorld9

Re: TekSavvy - glorified reseller, not ISP

quote:
I think people should give Marc more credit than he deserves for the success TSI has been.
I don't think you meant what you wrote.

=aw
--
Webber's occasional bargain blog: www.wwwebber.com
Expand your moderator at work


Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to xdrag

Re: TekSavvy - glorified reseller, not ISP

said by xdrag:

said by Guru:

said by youGOT it :

While Andre slags Rocky I can tell you this. If Rocky were to start another ISP tomorrow you would see people move to him fast.

People bought Rocky, his dream, his belief, his stance. People didn't buy TSI internet. He has a big following just by name.

Would be interesting...

+ 1 to this!!
No offence to TSI Marc!

People should know that even though Rocky was the face of TSI for a while, Marc has equally been there since the grassroots of TSI. He would be the one upgrading the old routers and munching on Timbits during the mid-night hours. I could be wrong, but for a while, he was also one of the techies to help you if you called in to their support line. I think people should give Marc more credit than he deserves for the success TSI has been.

Just to say Rocky isn't the head-man anymore and TSI is a worse because of that undermines the background individuals that have put in all the effort and hardships since the beginning.

TSI is a different company now than half-a-decade ago because the consumer based has evolved. You need to adapt to survive.

+1

Marc is his brother, from experience with an older brother nothing worse than people on here saying the other brother did a better job. Marc is doing pretty damn good. Rocky managed the business when it was far smaller, less complicated.

Marc moved it in to a whole new realm and it's stlll afloat. Give the guy a chance. He jumped in to the middle of a mess and did a lot of cleaning up. New building, new phone systems, new service (cable internet) and a new type of customer base.

Guru

join:2008-10-01
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

Why are you guys coming to the conclusions?
I personally never said TSI Marc is doing a bad job in the first place. It's just TSI Andre comes in here and slags R0CKY and TSI Andre might be right but the way the post came out, it certainly didn't come out good in fact to me, it sounded negative.

It's just that TSI R0CKY has represented TSI in the past so, he's quite popular than TSI Marc.

What made me make the post was TSI Andre, an employee of TSI, who slags a Ex-Owner in the public forum...TSI Marc's brother? I don't think any of the employee should be making such statements, it just leaves a bad impression! What gives them that right? Is TSI Andre the owner of TSI making such statements? and TSI Jonathan gives +1, FOOLS!!

Anyhow, don't come to conclusions and TSI Marc certainly is not doing a bad job. Kudos to Marc for working hard and making TSI one of the best.


Bhruic

join:2002-11-27
Toronto, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by Guru:

It's just TSI Andre comes in here and slags R0CKY and TSI Andre might be right but the way the post came out, it certainly didn't come out good in fact to me, it sounded negative.

The problem is that - at best - you are overreading Andre's statement. He never said anything about Rocky at all, you've just decided that must be who he's talking about. He could be (and most likely is) talking about the problems we had with the whole UBB situation.

No need to just to conclusions about people's statements unless you are sure that's what they meant.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
reply to OneWorld9

I think you guys are not reading Andre's comments the way they were intended. I don't take them at all as slagging Rocky, but that Marc redirected some company focus which has been a good thing. Remember too that they were / are joint owners.


UK_Dave

join:2011-01-27
Powassan, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·Bell Sympatico

Agreed, sbrook.

As you know, I said as much on the same day the TSI lads posted, but the comment was moderated during an off-topic clean up.

I read it that the "bull heading towards the cliff" was caused by Rocky's sudden leave of absence - not by any problems of management. Followed by Marc then stepping up to the plate to move things forwards.

Cheers,
Dave



TSI Andre
Got TekSavvy?
Premium,VIP
join:2008-06-03
Chatham, ON
kudos:24

1 recommendation

reply to sbrook

said by sbrook:

I think you guys are not reading Andre's comments the way they were intended. I don't take them at all as slagging Rocky, but that Marc redirected some company focus which has been a good thing. Remember too that they were / are joint owners.

+1. Thanks!

sbrook is correct. What I am saying is that the company has been evolving with the industry but on its own as well as needed, and lately, there has been a lot of changes needed. When Marc rose to power during Rocky's absence, Marc took the bull by the horns as many changes were needed to stay with today's demand. And since he took power, he has done a really good job at it!

Cheers,

Andre
--
TSI Andre
Director of Service Delivery
Authorized TSI Employee ( »TekSavvy FAQ »Official support in the forum )
@AndreCleroux - Follow me on Twitter

ReeG

join:2012-02-27
North York, ON
reply to OneWorld9

Been lurking this thread and it got me wondering as i've had some weird late night intermittent connection issues lately which I've solved with a modem reset when it has happened. I setup a monitor yesterday and check out what happened around the same time OP reports having issues. I woke up this morning and came straight to work and didn't use my internet so it'll probably be down all day until I go home and reset my modem.

»ny-monitor.dslreports.com/r3/cri···and=5215


OneWorld9

join:2010-12-09
East York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

said by ReeG:

Been lurking this thread and it got me wondering as i've had some weird late night intermittent connection issues lately which I've solved with a modem reset when it has happened. I setup a monitor yesterday and check out what happened around the same time OP reports having issues. I woke up this morning and came straight to work and didn't use my internet so it'll probably be down all day until I go home and reset my modem.

»ny-monitor.dslreports.com/r3/cri···and=5215

That's great that you set up a line monitor - I think everyone who wants to know the quality of their connection, or is having issues, should. Makes it much clearer as to what's happening. As more and more people set this up, it also makes it clearer if there are individual or area issues.

Good luck... hope TekSavvy can get you to a resolution relatively soon. My issue has once again disappeared, making it very difficult to isolate. My modem did a few reboots (on it's own) Monday morning, and it's been stable since. I can only hope the issue doesn't return.

xdrag

join:2005-02-18
North York, ON
reply to ReeG

said by ReeG:

Been lurking this thread and it got me wondering as i've had some weird late night intermittent connection issues lately which I've solved with a modem reset when it has happened. I setup a monitor yesterday and check out what happened around the same time OP reports having issues. I woke up this morning and came straight to work and didn't use my internet so it'll probably be down all day until I go home and reset my modem.

»ny-monitor.dslreports.com/r3/cri···and=5215

when you see that huge blackout period, it's probably because your router was down or the IP has changed. It's a tool but has it's limitations.

ReeG

join:2012-02-27
North York, ON

I doubt it becuase when that late night high ping and packet loss started, my internal network was still running fast and I was streaming 1080P content through my network without issues. Everytime this has happened my router and internal network seem fine and only the WAN settings in the router are lost and can't be renewed until I reset the modem. When the modem is reset and DHCP is renewed, I always get the same IP

It's been fine since I reset the modem when I got home yesterday but i'm still providing their support the info their asking for to see where it goes or what they can find if anything.



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
reply to OneWorld9

Generally I've found the server side line quality functions from DSLR next to useless for any ISP that's too far away. There are just too many things enroute that can impact the connection quality.


ReeG

join:2012-02-27
North York, ON

I just wanted to elaborate on my experience so far since quality of support has been heavily discussed and criticized in this thread.

I was given a pretty technically heavy set of questions and details to provide by support int he direct forum. Being in the IT industry myself, I'm OK with that, appreciate the level of detail and answering it all was easy enough for me, but I hope what was copy/pasted to me to answer isn't what they give the average person. I'm not sure how they can simplify or make it better but asking an average person to collect data on signal strength, MAC addresses, logs, splitter setup, firmware ect would be a nightmare for them. I'm imagining my Mom or Dad being hit with those kind of questions, not having a clue what any of it means and thinking they were getting terrible support as a result.

Some of it was kind of aimless and redundant as well, for example, asking me to try another coax cable when the connection is fine %99 of the time until it drops and resetting the modem results in it running fine again. Asking me if the modem is in standby or to do a factory reset when those options don't even exist on my modem struck me as odd as well. Asking me for my Modem serial and MAC when they already have my OID and customer info. Do they not keep any record of any of this themselves?

Let me clarify, i'm not knocking support, becuase I think their intentions are in the right place, and the response has been quick so far, but the method seem like it'd be nuts for anyone who isn't educated and experienced with computers and networking.


OneWorld9

join:2010-12-09
East York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to sbrook

said by sbrook:

Generally I've found the server side line quality functions from DSLR next to useless for any ISP that's too far away. There are just too many things enroute that can impact the connection quality.

I agree it could be better, but lacking Rogers-side monitoring, what else do you suggest? This is much better than simply not knowing what's going on. Based on this monitoring, I was able to clearly show the timeframes I was affected, and the high level of packetloss ... and that's exactly what I described the issue to be. I don't see this as "useless" - it doesn't resolve the issue, but it does provide timelines for when the issue is happening, which do correspond exactly to what I suggested was happening. Personally, I prefer this over doing ping tests at random times throughout the day.

OneWorld9

join:2010-12-09
East York, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to ReeG

said by ReeG:

I just wanted to elaborate on my experience so far since quality of support has been heavily discussed and criticized in this thread.

I was given a pretty technically heavy set of questions and details to provide by support int he direct forum. Being in the IT industry myself, I'm OK with that, appreciate the level of detail and answering it all was easy enough for me, but I hope what was copy/pasted to me to answer isn't what they give the average person. I'm not sure how they can simplify or make it better but asking an average person to collect data on signal strength, MAC addresses, logs, splitter setup, firmware ect would be a nightmare for them. I'm imagining my Mom or Dad being hit with those kind of questions, not having a clue what any of it means and thinking they were getting terrible support as a result.

Some of it was kind of aimless and redundant as well, for example, asking me to try another coax cable when the connection is fine %99 of the time until it drops and resetting the modem results in it running fine again. Asking me if the modem is in standby or to do a factory reset when those options don't even exist on my modem struck me as odd as well. Asking me for my Modem serial and MAC when they already have my OID and customer info. Do they not keep any record of any of this themselves?

Let me clarify, i'm not knocking support, becuase I think their intentions are in the right place, and the response has been quick so far, but the method seem like it'd be nuts for anyone who isn't educated and experienced with computers and networking.

+1 ... exactly my sentiments. My experience is this is exactly what they ask everyone ... and that's one of my complaints about support. They should be taking the responsibility of getting all this information themselves, and not ask the customer to do so. As you said, some of it is too technical (for the average user), some of it is irrelevant, some of it they should already have on file. Also being in IT, I was able to easily answer the questions, but I feel it was a waste of my time. For others, it would definitely be too difficult.

The support experience could be much better.


sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable

As I've said before ... to raise a problem to Rogers, and to avoid you getting a DMC charge, they have to ask all the dumb questions that a lot of the Rogers support people would ask. And believe me, I've been through this same pain with Rogers. Please power down your modem, please power up your modem. Please unplug the power to the modem. Please disconnect the router. Please try a new network cable. Please try a new coax cable. Please scratch your left ear in a breeze from the north on a warm winter's day.

If TSI doesn't go through this painful checking and report that they've done it to Rogers, then Rogers will bounce the request back "Have customer replace cables" for example and that goes through another 48 hour delay.

If TSI doesn't do this, the delays created by the support process are just interminable. As much as they are dumb things, if they didn't ask, you'd be SO pissed off at the delays it would be far worse!


The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable

said by sbrook:

As I've said before ... to raise a problem to Rogers, and to avoid you getting a DMC charge, they have to ask all the dumb questions that a lot of the Rogers support people would ask. And believe me, I've been through this same pain with Rogers. Please power down your modem, please power up your modem. Please unplug the power to the modem. Please disconnect the router. Please try a new network cable. Please try a new coax cable. Please scratch your left ear in a breeze from the north on a warm winter's day.

If TSI doesn't go through this painful checking and report that they've done it to Rogers, then Rogers will bounce the request back "Have customer replace cables" for example and that goes through another 48 hour delay.

If TSI doesn't do this, the delays created by the support process are just interminable. As much as they are dumb things, if they didn't ask, you'd be SO pissed off at the delays it would be far worse!

Exactly. Some of these complaints boil down to "I dislike reality and demand that TekSavvy ignore it." Rogers' obnoxious rules and delays are (gasp!) Rogers' fault. TSI can only try to be as helpful as possible within a difficult system.

Dunlop

join:2011-07-13
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Bell Fibe
·ELECTRONICBOX

said by The Mongoose:

Exactly. Some of these complaints boil down to "I dislike reality and demand that TekSavvy ignore it." Rogers' obnoxious rules and delays are (gasp!) Rogers' fault. TSI can only try to be as helpful as possible within a difficult system.

Yes but it is their job to explain it to the user, not everyone surfs DSL reports and is up to date on the latest telecom developments.

There also needs to be more liability on their end to ensure that the customer is credited for all lost time..a loss of profit on their end might light the needed fire up their a** to improve the system to minimize these downtimes.

I'm not targeting Teksavvy specifically, all IISP's seem to have the easy out clause and blame the evil incumbent

bbiab

join:2004-05-26

If their was more liability on their end they would be out of business. They are trying their best, it's good to know what you are buying.



HIGHER

@terago.net
reply to OneWorld9

said by OneWorld9:

TekSavvy Solutions Inc. is probably the worst "ISP" (read: glorified reseller) I've ever had to deal with. Granted, Canada doesn't have a lot of options ... and I left Rogers to try TekSavvy, mostly due to their better rates and bandwidth options. I have been with TekSavvy since Jan. 2011, using their cable Internet service (via Rogers).

Here are the things I've had to put up with:

1. Being disconnected twice, for days - who knows why? Best guess: Rogers conducts audits on their connections, and when I wasn't a "Rogers" customer anymore (or, rather, a Rogers customer who pays TekSavvy), they disconnected my cable because I wasn't on the Rogers list of customers.

2. Two months of extremely poor Internet connection, because TekSavvy oversubscribed their services. Who did they blame? Rogers. After telling them several times what a breach of service this was, they finally gave me a small credit.

3. When you call TekSavvy, be prepared to wait on the phone for hours. When you finally do talk to someone, if they say they will call you back, they won't. I decided that was useless. Luckily, you can also reach them through DSLReports. Support isn't much better, but at least someone will answer you and you don't have to waste quite as much time.

4. Two to three months of intermittent Internet service (ongoing) - works fine during the day, but between midnight and 7 a.m. it's basically gone. Best guess? Rogers is doing maintenance in my area. TekSavvy can't give me any clear reasons why this is happening, and several tickets opened with Rogers to find out why come back as "no problem". Of course, no support is actually available during that time frame to check what the problem is ... let's put 2 and 2 together, shall we?

5. Support is pretty much useless (see above). Most of the time, after power cycling your modem and resetting it to factory default, and asking you to spend hours gathering logs (which most people would really have no clue how to do without an IT background), they will have to pass things on to Rogers. Alright, understandable - but here's where things get good... they have to e-mail Rogers, and you have to wait up to 2 days to hear back from them to see if Rogers will do anything about it. Most of the time, Rogers will come back with "no problem found". If you dispute this, guess what? TekSavvy will gladly ask you to waste a bunch of time reproducing the same logs, and will open another ticket with Rogers ... which will, of course, rinse and repeat the above.

I guess the old adage holds true... you get what you pay for.

Man. What you have said sound so much familiar when outage occurred. I still scared and checked lights on my modem all the time. It's really frustrated that every time I called all I was told to do was to check this and that. They are even reluctant to issue ticket when I know it was not my issue. And all I could do was just sit and wait. basically the amount I paid was for the Internet BW not the service which probably cost more than Rogers because they provide service as well. Not to mention the hassle that no technician show up when I was taking a day off and waiting for them to fix the problem. It's unreal and not fair to the consumers.