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Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
reply to DarkLogix

Re: [Raiding] Mogu'Shan Vaults

HoF has 6, 3 in each half.

Vizier
Blade Lord
Garalon

Wind Lord
Amber Shaper
Empress


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
Odd, on the armory it shows a 4th in part 2.


Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
There's apparently a bug where Garalon is getting included into a progress data feed twice in the B.net API (seen in a blue post on the API forums), and I think the website works off the same feed.

And yeah, just looked at the armory site: Garalon is listed twice.


Eumaeus

join:2009-12-10
Yorktown, VA
reply to mettachain
said by mettachain:

you only might use 3 heals for Will but 2 healers should still be enough.

Metta's definitely correct on this. We finally cleared 6/6 last night and 2 healed Will. Only took 4 attempts to down Will and those were mostly spend teaching tanks to dance that just ignored the mechanic on LFR.

Pretty much all of MSV can be 2 healed if people avoid much of the damage that's... well, avoidable.
--
Eumaeus, Balance Druid
GM - Lux ex Tenebris - Sargeras | Alliance
[6/6] MSV [1/6] HoF

clawfury

join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI
reply to Immer
I think our RL finally came to the realization that we need 2 heals for Elegon. We had attendance issues, so pugged a tank and 2 dps for Elegon continuation. After 2-3 pulls, we had the mechanics down smoothly, finished the 50% pillars, got the boss to 41% and he enraged. After that, we switched to 2 heals. Tanks doing 30k each, 3 dps doing 90k, and 2 doing 65-70k on the 3 heal attempts. Nowhere near enough dps. The healer that switched to DPS did 50k on the next attempts - this time, dps dying all over the place, and tank, too. I think that (as I told our RL) using 3 heals was masking issues with the healing corp,and creating a crutch. More attempts incoming tonight - myself and 2 other DPS are squeezing out 80-90k per attempt, but we're not getting to see the benefit of 5 waves of orbs from draw power, due to people dying. Kinda frustrating. I think I'm squeezing just about everything I can out of my current gear level - once I got the optimum positioning down, I upped my dps by 10k, but I don't see myself squeezing much more than that, I'm at 99% activity and not wasting any time. I'm easily getting 4 orbs and could get 5, but I never get the chance (someone else drops theirs). From the looks of "successful" attempts on WoL, 740k raid dps seems about average. Minimum to succeed appears to be about 540k dps.


Eumaeus

join:2009-12-10
Yorktown, VA
My guild's first successful kill was last night - we'd been struggling with attendance / replacing poor dps issues also.

We aimed to kill 5 waves of orbs and let the 6th through. On the kill attempt someone missed their 5th orb kill on the 2nd pillar so the boss ended up with 11 stacks total.

Our dps was roughly like this: 120k, 110k, 105k, 100k, 90k, 85k
Can't recall where the tanks were. To be honest the healer swapping to DPS and pulling 50k is just too low unless some others are pulling major dps to make up for it and that their orbs still die.

One more way to eek out some more damage is to 'pre-pot' the fight. By that, I mean as the tank counts down to pull, drink a major primary stat potion before combat begins and blow major dps cooldowns immediately. This would allow you to still use a 2nd potion later in the fight. Nearly 4k main stat during your cooldown phase can make a massive difference.

While I couldn't say whether your issues are your healers or not, I can say that many times DPS bring unnecessary damage upon themselves during Elegon. They have to make sure they're dropping stacks not only once they're up above 7ish but also every time a large add is about to explode and after EVERY wave of orbs. When those orbs die they explode and many people forget to drop stacks during this phase. Hope some of this may help you and good luck!
--
Eumaeus, Balance Druid
GM - Lux ex Tenebris - Sargeras | Alliance
[6/6] MSV [1/6] HoF


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
Ya double potting is what alot of people do

Personally I aim to use the 2nd during hero.

though healers may need to use a mana pot instead for hero.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by DarkLogix:

though healers may need to use a mana pot instead for hero.

no reason for a healer to double-pot... unless there is some huge event at the start of the fight where using a big heal (INT for power, or Spirit for the regen) at the beginning of the fight... like Beth'tilac for disc priests... they know they are gonna drop a shield at the beginning. (weak example, but you get the point).
--
Guild leader of Pride and Ego (US:Nathrezim)
Good times with Great people in the Best way to spend $15/mo.

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.


Archivis
Your Daddy
Premium
join:2001-11-26
Earth
kudos:19
reply to JB
said by JB:

Interesting.

Elegon 25m down.

Bad tanks, only raiding 5 hours/week is fun.

JB only raiding 5 hours a week now? wtf
--
A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. -MLK


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Immer
said by Immer:

said by DarkLogix:

though healers may need to use a mana pot instead for hero.

no reason for a healer to double-pot... unless there is some huge event at the start of the fight where using a big heal (INT for power, or Spirit for the regen) at the beginning of the fight... like Beth'tilac for disc priests... they know they are gonna drop a shield at the beginning. (weak example, but you get the point).

Ya healers don't need to so much.

though they could drop a spirit and burn some mana over healing if they wanted.


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Archivis
said by Archivis:

said by JB:

Interesting.

Elegon 25m down.

Bad tanks, only raiding 5 hours/week is fun.

JB only raiding 5 hours a week now? wtf

You're in bizzaro world.

clawfury

join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI
reply to Eumaeus
Thanks Eumaeus. Good advice. I am pre-potting, and the RL is demanding that everyone does. We haven't consistently gotten 5 waves of orbs, due to people dying. I clear my stacks every set of orbs - but I'm taking a lot of damage, and not getting much in the way of heals. I stand at the edge of the bubble in the "sweet spot" and jump to clear my stacks. I save my biggest CD for the 4-5th orb wave, too. I think it's just going to take a ton more practice, and people all being on point to get it done. I think the RL is contemplating dropping one of the heals for a dedicated 6th dps, since none of the healers are that good at DPS and only one has a halfway decent set, and still only did 50k.

djlar

join:2009-04-23
799228
reply to Eumaeus
Ranged DPS on Elegon must be on the 140K+, melee 100-110K, specially with 11 stacks.. we never go 11, how you kill the 5th? it doesn't compute that you can kill 5 orbs and those DPS numbers..


JB
Stay Gold
Premium
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1
reply to Archivis
Lol, only have ever raided 9/week. Recently we've had so many flakes/bouncers that it's been as low as 5. It sucks.


Eumaeus

join:2009-12-10
Yorktown, VA
reply to djlar
Couldn't tell you sir, but that's indeed how it played out. Do you play the 3rd phase as a straight stack and burn ignoring stacks or still drop stacks? I've heard both work depending on raid dps.

I have to disagree that all ranged must be 140k+ and melee 100-110k in order to get a kill. Our numbers were not there on our kill last night. Those numbers sound more along the lines of dps required disregarding tank dps perhaps?

As far as killing the 5th we have two DK dps trying to spread dots to as many orbs as possible when they spawn and I save a starfall for the 5th wave as well. Really a single starsurge crit along with starfall will pretty much kill my 5th orb.
--
Eumaeus, Balance Druid
GM - Lux ex Tenebris - Sargeras | Alliance
[6/6] MSV [1/6] HoF


JB
Stay Gold
Premium
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1
reply to djlar
10m v 25m, probably.


Eumaeus

join:2009-12-10
Yorktown, VA
That would definitely be a possibility if dljar's been experiencing 25m. Safe to assume there's many more small adds spawning than in 10m? The cleaving/aoe burn on those may account for some difference.

We were getting him to P2 with two adds first time (as expected) and getting him to P2 the second time just before the 4th add spawned.

djlar

join:2009-04-23
799228
Yup on 25m you require 3 people on each orb (simple math 6x3 = 18), healers still have to heal, place each tank on a "weak" side to help out a bit.. we also have DKs putting dots on them, we tunnel on 5th spawn.


Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
reply to Eumaeus
25 still has 6 orbs. They just have more health.

Our benchmarks are the following:
2 protectors
Kill 4 orbs, ignore 5th
3 protectors
Kill 4 orbs, ignore 5th

Burn and pray.

Our last kill had only 3 orbs killed (4th ignored) on the first pass and we still got it (barely).


Eumaeus

join:2009-12-10
Yorktown, VA
Ok that all makes more sense now : )

10m orbs only have 400k and some change health so the 5th wave is killable if nobody has a truly bad streak of casts. A starsurge may crit inside the circle for 320-340k and thats nearly the whole orb.

Conversely, if I'm in lunar eclipse casting slow-as-hell starfires and none of them crit and starsurge doesnt proc / is on cooldown, the 5th orb will probably slide through.
--
Eumaeus, Balance Druid
GM - Lux ex Tenebris - Sargeras | Alliance
[6/6] MSV [1/6] HoF

clawfury

join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI
On 10m (my only experience), I can get 5 orbs - but's tough. The last one is scary and always close. I basically move into position while he's casting draw power, and then put up a black arrow on the boss (For load and load procs), then use cobra strike on the boss to cap energy. Once the first add spawns, I go nuts, and hope for L&L procs, burn my 100 energy, and use killshot for finish. I then revert to the boss to recap energy, rinse and repeat. I usually end up blowing a minor CD on 3/4, and then a major CD on 4/5.

clawfury

join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI
So we were back at it last night. RL insisted on trying 3 heals again to practice "mechanics", he was still hopeful that we could down it with 3 heals >.> Everyone has their positioning down perfect - we had yet another PUG tank (OT still gone, 8 days with no logons or comment). Our set up just sucks, I think. 3 ranged, 2 melee, heals are (I just noticed how bad this is....since I'm not RL I wasn't paying attention, and I should have) holy pally, disc priest, resto shaman. We got the boss to 28% with 5 dps. We then switched to six DPS - the shaman went Ele this time, and pulled around 50k dps. As usual, began losing DPS and tanks to lack of heals. Not sure WTF the deal is. I'm standing right at bubble edge during P1, and jumping every time I'm doing an instant cast to clear my stacks (which is every 3-5 seconds). During P2, I move to my new designated position, and dps my orbs, rinse and repeat. Lot of fail on orbs, dead dps, etc. Happy with my dps, though, getting close to sustaining that 100k.

We do this for 1 1/2 hours, then switch to HoF. Way too much jabberjaw and bad explaining for about 20 minutes (seriously people, watch the f'ing video, don't rely on a RL for your fight clues). 4-5 pulls, got him to 20%, moron melee dying to attentuation EVERY time, warrior dies at 22% on boss (along with warlock) - RL calls for BR on warrior (doing 1/2 dps of warlock), he takes it in the middle of force and verve. OMG.

cigtyme
Coonass and Proud of it

join:2010-08-17
Houma, LA
kudos:1
Claw, sounds like you had a rough raid night man. A hard headed RL can cause struggle. I am glad we have an open mind on strats.

clawfury

join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI
Yeah man, it was rough. Two rough nights in a row. I have just been keeping my mouth shut and focusing on maximizing my dps, though. The RL has finally seen the light, though - and the priest is working on his shadow set and rotation this week, and also switching to holy and learning to heal well with that, too. Should be a better set up next week. IMO we really need to lose the warrior and get another strong ranged dps, but I don't see that happening. Forgot about the other wipe he caused - he was the one explaining (horribly) the first boss in HoF, so you would think he would be the last one failing on mechanics. Going into second platform (MC), he didn't blow his bladestorm first. He pops reck, gets MC, and then bladestorms the entire raid to death.


Lothario

join:2009-09-30
Ottawa, ON
He shouldn't be specced for bladestorm.. dragon's roar>

cigtyme
Coonass and Proud of it

join:2010-08-17
Houma, LA
kudos:1
reply to clawfury
Yeah we replaced an alternate Warrior(always too high or too drunk) with Darklogix as a permanent raider. Our DPS is nice now. If we could only get our shammy to be as good of DPS as he is a healer. He is our weakest player, and he isn't bad at all. I am really happy we started raiding late, because now we arguably have the best 10 we have ever had as a guild(3 OP Mages FTW).

clawfury

join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI
reply to Lothario
Yeah Loth, you're right, he should be dragon's roar. Not sure why he's bladestorm either, I didn't notice that until he wiped us. Either way you HAVE to keep reck/major CD's down before the MC platform or it's ugly. I blow stampede, hunter version of prep, and my rapid fire on the first platform. The fight is long enough that I get to use them twice, anyway.

That's cool, Cig. I'm glad you got a good raid group going. This group seemed really good (for the first 4 bosses of MV) but I'm starting to see some cracks in the facade now. I'm not going to jump ship just yet, but I plan to talk to the RL about it. The healer corp is already taking steps to fix their bad comp, but the warrior either needs to step up his game or go imo.


JB
Stay Gold
Premium
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

1 recommendation

said by clawfury:

The healer corp is already taking steps to fix their bad comp

Hmmm, I must be missing something here. Holy Paladin and Disc/Holy Priest is the dream 2heal combo.

Best tank healer. Paladin
Best aoe healer(or tied). Shaman
Unmatched disc absorbs.
--
I know you are the only one
A little taste of heaven
You know I am The only one
Your bitter taste of hell

clawfury

join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI
said by JB:

said by clawfury:

The healer corp is already taking steps to fix their bad comp

Hmmm, I must be missing something here. Holy Paladin and Disc/Holy Priest is the dream 2heal combo.

Best tank healer. Paladin
Best aoe healer(or tied). Shaman
Unmatched disc absorbs.

Holy paladin and disc priest is the best 2 heal combo? I would have thought holy paladin and holy priest, yeah - but holy/disc seems awful good on tank heals and kinda weak on aoe at least compared to the shaman.

EDIT: So, on our 2 heal attempts we had holy paladin and disc, and it seemed we just kept losing dps. I assumed it was due to both of those specs not being really prime aoe heals. I haven't healed either this xpac, so I could be totally wrong, but I don't see those 2 topping meters on heavy raid damage fights. Seem more tank heal focused.

clawfury

join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI
If that's the dream combo, then the healers just suck. lol.