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elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
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reply to The Mongoose

Re: TekSavvy - glorified reseller, not ISP

said by The Mongoose:

That being said, this issue of two homes with totally different experiences despite presumably being on the same node has come up before, and it's interesting. No matter what the two services are, there should be no difference so long as they're on the same profile and there's no POI congestion or weird downstream issues. I'd love to hear what, if anything, comes out of the situation elwoodblues describes.

I know I'm on McNicol, he could have been moved to Comstock,but how can I tell?
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......

The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
said by elwoodblues:

said by The Mongoose:

That being said, this issue of two homes with totally different experiences despite presumably being on the same node has come up before, and it's interesting. No matter what the two services are, there should be no difference so long as they're on the same profile and there's no POI congestion or weird downstream issues. I'd love to hear what, if anything, comes out of the situation elwoodblues describes.

I know I'm on McNicol, he could have been moved to Comstock,but how can I tell?

Should show up in a tracert...though sometimes the naming can confuse. Either way though, the whole node would move so it wouldn't necessarily help identify the problem. Now if it got moved to Comstock but Distributel didn't have equipment there, THAT could cause some weirdness.


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to elwoodblues
Post a traceroute to say google.ca, we will see if you're on McNicol and we should also be able to see what Node you're on.

Mongoose, can you do it too for fun?
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
I'm on Dupont so not sure I'm of any use in troubleshooting this one, but here's mine:

Tracing route to google.com [74.125.225.32]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms CISCOE4200V2 [192.168.1.1]
2 8 ms 9 ms 10 ms 10.126.211.129
3 16 ms 18 ms 11 ms 24.156.150.9
4 18 ms 17 ms 8 ms dupont.cable.teksavvy.com [24.52.255.130]
5 11 ms 50 ms 11 ms dupont2.cable.teksavvy.com [24.246.55.117]
6 10 ms 9 ms 10 ms 72.14.212.134
7 17 ms 10 ms 12 ms 216.239.47.114
8 26 ms 26 ms 26 ms 216.239.46.160
9 27 ms 26 ms 28 ms 72.14.237.109
10 25 ms 26 ms 25 ms 209.85.250.28
11 26 ms 26 ms 28 ms ord08s06-in-f0.1e100.net [74.125.225.32]

Trace complete.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
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reply to The Mongoose
said by The Mongoose:

said by elwoodblues:

said by The Mongoose:

That being said, this issue of two homes with totally different experiences despite presumably being on the same node has come up before, and it's interesting. No matter what the two services are, there should be no difference so long as they're on the same profile and there's no POI congestion or weird downstream issues. I'd love to hear what, if anything, comes out of the situation elwoodblues describes.

I know I'm on McNicol, he could have been moved to Comstock,but how can I tell?

Should show up in a tracert...though sometimes the naming can confuse. Either way though, the whole node would move so it wouldn't necessarily help identify the problem. Now if it got moved to Comstock but Distributel didn't have equipment there, THAT could cause some weirdness.

I did have a conversation with one of the techs that frequent here, and he said they had no plans to move to comstock.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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reply to TSI Marc
Tracing route to google.ca [74.125.133.94]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1ms 192.168.1.1
2 7 ms 14 ms 29 ms 10.140.8.129
3 15 ms 13 ms 20 ms 66.185.89.21
4 15 ms 14 ms 23 ms 24.153.5.217
5 55 ms 48 ms 47 ms gw-google.torontointernetxchange.net [206.108.34.6]
6 64 ms 45 ms 45 ms 216.239.47.114
7 50 ms 62 ms 62 ms 216.239.46.160
8 60 ms 73 ms 53 ms 209.85.241.22
9 73 ms 59 ms 78 ms 209.85.241.29
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 81 ms 63 ms 59 ms ia-in-f94.1e100.net [74.125.133.94]
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......

xdrag

join:2005-02-18
North York, ON
said by elwoodblues:

Tracing route to google.ca [74.125.133.94]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1ms 192.168.1.1
2 7 ms 14 ms 29 ms 10.140.8.129
3 15 ms 13 ms 20 ms 66.185.89.21
4 15 ms 14 ms 23 ms 24.153.5.217
5 55 ms 48 ms 47 ms gw-google.torontointernetxchange.net [206.108.34.6]
6 64 ms 45 ms 45 ms 216.239.47.114
7 50 ms 62 ms 62 ms 216.239.46.160
8 60 ms 73 ms 53 ms 209.85.241.22
9 73 ms 59 ms 78 ms 209.85.241.29
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 81 ms 63 ms 59 ms ia-in-f94.1e100.net [74.125.133.94]

That doesnt look like mcnicoll. I could be wrong but 4th hop isnt one of the 3 IPs.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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What else would it be? I live in Scarberia ( the most SW) besides comstock, the next POI would be Bloor (I don't see going up to york)

The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
said by elwoodblues:

What else would it be? I live in Scarberia ( the most SW) besides comstock, the next POI would be Bloor (I don't see going up to york)

Someone at TSI will know from the IP, I would think.


travisc

join:2001-11-09
Uxbridge, ON

1 edit

2 recommendations


Seriously though, OP has every right to raise a stink in public and try to get his problem solved. These direct forums can be nice for getting things done, but they also serve to try to shove problems off the public's radar. I think that's the real reason they exist, to try to head off the vocal, knowledgeable user with a problem that frequents these types of forums.

I said in another thread, and I'll say it again, TekSavvy's business model is broken. You can't be the the customer-facing entity whose business depends on the goodwill of a hostile oligopoly like Rogers or Bell or any of the other big telecoms. They can, and will, screw with you relentlessly and there's no fixing it unless you can get the CRTC to put firm rules in place to help solve these types of issues.

I know TSI people have argued that Rogers should see them as a great business partner that makes them lots of money. That might be true, but I can tell you with certainty that Rogers will never see it that way. They want those customers for themselves and TekSavvy is nothing more than a regulator-imposed nuisance.

The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
said by travisc:

I said in another thread, and I'll say it again, TekSavvy's business model is broken. You can't be the the customer-facing entity whose business depends on the goodwill of a hostile oligopoly like Rogers or Bell or any of the other big telecoms. They can, and will, screw with you relentlessly and there's no fixing it unless you can get the CRTC to put firm rules in place to help solve these types of issues.

And assuming the CRTC isn't going to ride to the rescue any time soon, what do you propose TSI do about this, other than what they've been doing?


travisc

join:2001-11-09
Uxbridge, ON
Well, I don't think you should write off the CRTC just yet. At least try... Every time there's a situation like this where they get screwed over by Rogers or Bell, file a complaint with the CRTC. Inundate them with paper and hope they finally pay attention.

In a perfect world, I'd say TekSavvy should start slowly building out their own infrastructure or acquiring smaller telecoms. It's expensive and slow, but it's something to build on over the years. I think with the network fully under their control they can do it right and make a tidy profit competing against the big players. That profit you roll into further expansion. If you get large enough, hopefully you can attract some bank financing or a venture capitalist who could finance faster expansion. Honestly, it's really not that hard to compete against Bell or Rogers, if you can manage to get the network built. Yes, I am fully aware this is easier said than done.

There's not much else I see that they can do. It's not the best way to run a business, but it's a way. But I think the fans need to accept that if this is the way TekSavvy is going to exist, then there are going to be posts by disgruntled customers who have gotten badly screwed by getting caught in the middle of the relationship with the incumbent. And I don't think it's going to get better - the larger TekSavvy gets, the more pushback they'll get from Rogers and Bell who will view them as more of a threat than an annoyance.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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I'm going to play devils advocate here.
What small telcom player could they purchase (assuming they can afford it) that will allow them their own infrastructure?

You're in Uxbridge and you've got Compton for your TV and internet, A little further east is Nexicom.

So lets focus on Ontario, let assume they can buy the Nexicoms and the Comptons, great so they got small regions that they control, but the "gravy" is Toronto,Ottawa, Montreal, etc.. and they're locked up the incumbents.

I can remember a time where there were so many cable companies in Toronto it wasn't funny, Rogers assimilated them all, starting with Maclean Hunter.

That's cable, now for xDSL, you have the large telcoms and nothing else.

So please tell me how they are going to build their own infrastructure by buying smaller players. (and lets be honest if Rogers got wind that TSI was after those playes they'd sweeten the offer).
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


TSI Marc
Premium,VIP
join:2006-06-23
Chatham, ON
kudos:28
reply to travisc
I think you're trying to simplify things so it fits nicely into a sentence or two. Its no more broken now then it has ever been. I'd even say that it's the opposite and the big difference is that people are more aware. These discussions are important.

Let's be clear. *nobody* will build a third network. It's not a matter of somebody being able to afford it, it's because building a third network means you have to compete for one third of the market but you have to build for all of it. Even in the states where there's ten times the population, it doesn't exist.

This is why the CRTC has to mandate access to their networks. Getting the incumbents to play nice is not an option. it's a must. We need to get everybody saying the same thing and I guarantee you it will change. We all witnessed it with UBB.
--
Marc - CEO/TekSavvy

UK_Dave

join:2011-01-27
Powassan, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

1 recommendation

Aye.

British Telecom had the same power in the UK. A rival infrastructure was impossible.

In the end, they were forcibly seperated from their infrastructure.

The National Infrastructure is managed seperately now (still a private company), and they "charge out" that infrastructure to the multiple ISP's who wish to provide service over it, using whatever differentiation they wish to market to customers.

I'm not privvy to anything special information-wise, but I've been talking to Vic Fidelli (great guy, Provincial MP up here) about this issue for years... and he's very much in favour I believe.

Cheers,
Dave


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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Somewhere in
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Unfortunately telecommunications is a federal responsibility, and until Harper is gone, nothing is going to change.


TSI Gabe
Router of Packets
Premium,VIP
join:2007-01-03
Gatineau, QC
kudos:7

1 edit
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

Tracing route to google.ca [74.125.133.94]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1ms 192.168.1.1
2 7 ms 14 ms 29 ms 10.140.8.129
3 15 ms 13 ms 20 ms 66.185.89.21
4 15 ms 14 ms 23 ms 24.153.5.217
5 55 ms 48 ms 47 ms gw-google.torontointernetxchange.net [206.108.34.6]
6 64 ms 45 ms 45 ms 216.239.47.114
7 50 ms 62 ms 62 ms 216.239.46.160
8 60 ms 73 ms 53 ms 209.85.241.22
9 73 ms 59 ms 78 ms 209.85.241.29
10 * * * Request timed out.
11 81 ms 63 ms 59 ms ia-in-f94.1e100.net [74.125.133.94]

You'll have to provide your IP since from all appearances, this traceroute wasn't run from our network...that's not us.

edit: That traceroute is in fact as far as I can tell, not on Distributel's network either...all of those IPs are running through Rogers.

We've seen this happen a few times for our own customers, they get provisioned as a Rogers customer even though they are paying a TPIA ISP.

--
TSI Gabe - TekSavvy Solutions Inc.
Authorized TSI employee ( »TekSavvy FAQ »Official support in the forum )

UK_Dave

join:2011-01-27
Powassan, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to elwoodblues
Right, I see.

We didn't have that issue of course, not having the provincial/federal distinction.

It was the Conservatives who did it in the UK. They did it to introduce the free market into telecom service delivery. It's all still private company operated, just without the monopoly.

It was a huge improvement over the previous years, where it was a National utility.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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Somewhere in
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reply to TSI Gabe
209.195.110.xx and that IP according to ARIN is registered to Distributel.


TSI Gabe
Router of Packets
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join:2007-01-03
Gatineau, QC
kudos:7
ok...but that traceroute you just provided doesn't contain that IP anywhere.


TSI Gabe
Router of Packets
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join:2007-01-03
Gatineau, QC
kudos:7
Again, what I'm trying to say is that from all appearances, that traceroute is being run from a Rogers customer, it doesn't hit Distributel's network or ours.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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reply to TSI Gabe
But Moongoose's tracert doesn't show a Teksavvy IP either, you see his router first.

Something I just realized too, my IP, for the first time in years has changed.I used to have a dns entry to RDP into my computer (I've since started using Logmein) and just realized my IP changed from the 72.53.148.x to the 209 range. No idea when that happened.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......

vientito1

join:2009-01-09
reply to elwoodblues
This guy has lost all his credibility by providing an incomplete traceroute log and then claimed problem on the part of teksavvy. For the sake of argument, he's hiding information to support his own argument.


TSI Gabe
Router of Packets
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join:2007-01-03
Gatineau, QC
kudos:7
I'm not trying to discredit anyone I'm trying to get to the bottom of it.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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Somewhere in
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reply to vientito1
Huh? I'm not on Teksavvy, nor am i claiming there is a problem. Marc asked me to run this so we could verify what POI I was on.

The Mongoose

join:2010-01-05
Toronto, ON
reply to vientito1
said by vientito1:

This guy has lost all his credibility by providing an incomplete traceroute log and then claimed problem on the part of teksavvy. For the sake of argument, he's hiding information to support his own argument.

I don't think that's accurate. I get the distinct impression that I elwoodblues and I don't agree on much, but there's no evidence that he's falsified anything. I imagine Gabe will sort this out.