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oh LOOK

@videotron.ca

Harper Government declares Internet a Necessity

Christian Paradis, Industry Minister, on behalf of the Harper government states:

In this day and age, access to the Internet is not a luxury; it's a necessity.

»news.gc.ca/web/article-eng.do?nid=697119

Does anyone else find it funny that all of a sudden the Harper gov calls "real" internet service a necessity. Yet the CRTC says it's not essential?

What's even funnier, the Harper gov is calling what is being offered to these Sask rural people unacceptable, »SaskTel leaving rural high-speed internet service

In other words, Sasktel's offer of tossing it's old wireless rural customers to Xplornet is not real internet service and not reliable, and the Harper government is giving Sasktel an additional year to come up with another solution.

I can see this quote being used in future CRTC filings.

I find it funny that the Harper gov finds Xplornet unreliable and not a real choice that meets the needs of the people. Yet the CRTC said they are good enough as a choice for people and thus this shows healthy and real competition in the Canadian internet market.

I wonder what Xplornets reaction to this is? heh, Bet they are fuming.



travisc

join:2001-11-09
Uxbridge, ON

We could also take issue with the fact that the Industry folks seem to think that our urban broadband is the bee's knees, if we're happily reading into what they didn't say.



kingb71

join:2000-10-09
Mississauga, ON
reply to oh LOOK

The harpo dictatorship is only doing this so Vic can spy on us.



dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
reply to oh LOOK

said by oh LOOK :

Does anyone else find it funny that all of a sudden the Harper gov calls "real" internet service a necessity. Yet the CRTC says it's not

It is absolutely essential.

But the CRTC is "arm's length" from the Harper government.

What this means is, there's a length of arm belonging to the incumbents that has been inserted into the ass of the CRTC and the hand on that arm is working the mouth of the CRTC.

"It's not essential. it's not essential, it's not essential..."

The people at Industry sell out for much much less.

Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to oh LOOK

Because voters in Saskatchewan are part of their western base, if this happened in Toronto , they wouldn't care less.

And you completely missed this :

The Harper Government is making additional spectrum available to allow telecom companies to bring the latest 4G LTE mobile networks to Canadian consumers and businesses, including those in rural areas. This will result in improved connectivity for consumers, increased business productivity and enhanced safety for Canadians.

So they make a lot of noise but support the incumbents and their over the top priced mobile service.

Paradis is an idiot if he things mobile internet is a replacement for cable or xdSL

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by elwoodblues:

Because voters in Saskatchewan are part of their western base, if this happened in Toronto , they wouldn't care less.

And you completely missed this :

The Harper Government is making additional spectrum available to allow telecom companies to bring the latest 4G LTE mobile networks to Canadian consumers and businesses, including those in rural areas. This will result in improved connectivity for consumers, increased business productivity and enhanced safety for Canadians.

So they make a lot of noise but support the incumbents and their over the top priced mobile service.

Paradis is an idiot if he things mobile internet is a replacement for cable or xdSL

Fixed it for you.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

Paradis is an idiot if he things mobile internet is a replacement for cable or xdSL

For places where running cables or fiber makes little to no business sense, wireless is the most logical/practical option.

With the proliferation of wireless tablets, smartphones, nettops, etc., the main thing preventing more widespread adoption of wireless is hefty wireless data prices.


indeedy

@videotron.ca
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

Because voters in Saskatchewan are part of their western base, if this happened in Toronto , they wouldn't care less.

I honestly think you are correct. There are thousands in Ontario rural area's who have to relay on WISP or xplornet. There is nothing else. There are prov's that don't even have a choice or 5-meg internet.

Yet, the Harper gov just said to his voting base in Sask, Saktel's HTS 5-meg internet (»www.sasktel.com/about-us/legal-a···rnet.pdf) is not a real choice. Nor is Xplornet's 4G wireless a real choice (»www.xplornet.com/how-it-works/ab···network/).

Why do these 8,000 people get singled out for special treatment with declaration of how this 5-meg service and 4G is not good enough, and speeches about how internet is a necessity?

Soap-boxing for votes?

Per cartt.ca
»www.cartt.ca/news/14363/Cable-Te···ers.html
the federal government has intervened by deploying more spectrum and granting SaskTel a second extension to find a better solution.

Has there ever been an intervention by the Harper gov to date anywhere for people who were stuck with 5-meg sat or Xplornet 4G, and in the same breath declare internet a necessity while saying this is not a choice?

There are people in big cities that have 1-meg and can't get better cuz of aged decrepit bell lines.

This is indeed a funny one here.


DeepThought

@videotron.ca
reply to dillyhammer

said by dillyhammer:

But the CRTC is "arm's length" from the Harper government.

What this means is, there's a length of arm belonging to the incumbents that has been inserted into the ass of the CRTC and the hand on that arm is working the mouth of the CRTC.

Deep.
I vote this best reply of the day.


raisethebar

@anonymouse.org
reply to oh LOOK

If it is a necessity then its time the gov set some basic standards that all ISPs must meet in regards to speed/caps/throttle/privacy/price. Slow, over priced, capped, throttled internet does not cut it in this era and will not in the future.

Perhaps the gov should take a more open, global view of what other countrys have done, like the nordic countrys for example, fast and cheap, and I think even Finland made it a human right.



hm

@videotron.ca

said by raisethebar :

If it is a necessity then its time the gov set some basic standards that all ISPs must meet in regards to speed/caps/throttle/privacy/price.

Interesting question.

Let us look over to the "consumer" area of the CRTC to see what they have to tell us.

*Takes raisethebar by the hand (in a non-gay way) and skips over to the CRTC website*

»crtc.gc.ca/eng/faqs.htm
Internet
Why doesn't the CRTC regulate Internet services?

In 1999, the CRTC studied the Internet and decided not to regulate it. Access to Internet services was competitive, and both creativity and innovation grew in an environment without regulation. While there was some broadcasting content being offered, most Internet services at the time were text based. The CRTC concluded that the Internet was meeting the objectives of the Broadcasting Act and Telecommunications Act.


Says right there it's competitive enough, so that means people can make a choice in what they buy. Just like these 8,000 Sask people can buy 5-meg HTS Sasktel satellite, or Xplornet 4G services.

But wait. Why did the Harper gov just say that isn't a real choice for these 8,000 rural people?

*scratches head*

Anyone have an answer?

Sorry, raisethebar, I didn't find your answer there at the CRTC website.

Maybe we need to look further into what the CRTC says to consumers. Let's check the "Internet In Canada" section.

*Takes raisethebar by the hand (in a non-gay way) again and skips over to the CRTC website*

»crtc.gc.ca/eng/INFO_SHT/t1003.htm

Access to the Internet

Virtually all Canadians, whether they live in urban centers or rural and remote areas, benefit from access to the Internet.

Recognizing that Internet service is increasingly important for communication, the Commission has established universal Internet performance target speeds of 5 megabits per second (Mbps) downstream and 1 Mbps upstream. These speeds should be available to all Canadians by the end of 2015.


Hmm, by the definition given above, Sasktel and Xplornet meet these defined needs already.

I don't know why the Harper gov just all of a sudden stepped in to declare this not a choice and gave a speech about internet being a necessity since they already have what is stated there.

*scratches head*

Anyone have an answer?

So, raisethebar, it appears that the basic standards are already met in Sask. Says so by the CRTC, Sasktel's online documentation of speeds available, and Xplornet.

WTF is going on? I don't get it!

So let us re-cap you question and break it down:
"If it is a necessity then its time the gov set some basic standards that all ISPs must meet in regards to speed/caps/throttle/privacy/price."

We just learned:
A) These 8,000 people already have access to the basic speeds as defined by the CRTC that all people should have by 2015.

B) Caps are not regulated. There is enough choice in the market. The CRTC says so on their website (see above).

C) Privacy is regulated (though one wouldn't know it)

D) Price isn't regulated. Only the wholesale level is. So people are free to make a choice in what they pay.

E) Throttling, they don't care. They just have a requirement that you have to be informed and it shouldn't affect time sensitive things. OoOoOoh, Wait a minute. Maybe they are saying Xplornet and Sasktel satellite are not good enough for time sensitive applications? This could very well be the case.

But, this isn't a requirement as defined by the CRTC that I can find, unless there is a throttle.

Did the Harper government just create a brand new requirement that there should be the very minimum of latency so that these 8,000 special people can play online games and use voip?

I think so.

But why is this brand new requirement only for these 8,000 Sask rural people and no one else? What about the rest of the country?

*scratches head*

Anyone?

Something is funny here, or I'm missing something. Someone fill us in.

wilsonlam97

join:2010-12-08
Canada
reply to oh LOOK

I think Harper is right. The only person I dislike is Dalton McGuinty.



anakin1138

@electronicbox.net
reply to oh LOOK

One small step (a very tiny one) towards the utopian ideal solution; nationalizing broadband.

This is how it starts.



TwiztedZero
Nine Zero Burp Nine Six
Premium
join:2011-03-31
Toronto, ON
kudos:5

said by anakin1138 :

One small step (a very tiny one) towards the dystopian ideal solution; nationalizing broadband.

This is how it starts.

Fixed that for you. "bolded"

funny0

join:2010-12-22
reply to wilsonlam97

said by wilsonlam97:

I think Harper is right. The only person I dislike is Dalton McGuinty.

he dont like you either keep voting pc , most ignorant people do.


dchdrake
Premium
join:2005-04-29
Windsor, ON
reply to oh LOOK

How is C-30 supposed to work if we all don't have decent internet access?


Walter Dnes

join:2008-01-27
Thornhill, ON
reply to TwiztedZero

said by TwiztedZero:

said by anakin1138 :

One small step (a very tiny one) towards the dystopian ideal solution; nationalizing broadband.

This is how it starts.

Fixed that for you. "bolded"

Pray that the CRTC never gets to regulate the internet »www.efc.ca/pages/media/ottawa-su···v96.html This was from 1996, but I doubt the mentality has changed.

cog_biz_user
i ruin threads apparently

join:2011-04-19
Hamilton, ON
reply to oh LOOK

5/1 is a joke. i had that 10 years ago... today, i've got 16/1. moar upload pls.


InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5

said by cog_biz_user:

5/1 is a joke. i had that 10 years ago... today, i've got 16/1. moar upload pls.

5/1 is simply what Harper has decided to declare as essential. Many people still cannot even get that much.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to oh LOOK

so what happened to internet over power lines? I remember that being talked about years ago. seems if that was developed it could get good internet to everyone. Mind you I've no idea the issues with that as it may have the same distance issues as all the other brand band types.



mlerner
Premium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5

said by TOPDAWG:

so what happened to internet over power lines? I remember that being talked about years ago. seems if that was developed it could get good internet to everyone. Mind you I've no idea the issues with that as it may have the same distance issues as all the other brand band types.

Apparently it didn't perform very well in trials. You have issues with interference and distance issues much like DSL. And apparently it wasn't very fast. At least from what I remember.

funny_one
Previously known as 'Deadpool'

join:2010-11-01
reply to indeedy

I don't know how you interpreted that 4G is not good enough, unless you're saying it has to be 4G LTE?

If so, all 4G has an LTE upgrade path, so Xplornet's WiMAX platform fits the bill.



re read

@videotron.ca

said by funny_one:

I don't know how you interpreted that 4G is not good enough, unless you're saying it has to be 4G LTE?

If so, all 4G has an LTE upgrade path, so Xplornet's WiMAX platform fits the bill.

According to the Harper gov, this isn't good enough. Nor is it a choice for the people in Sask as he declared Internet a necessity for them...

Lots of weirdness in this.

One of the reasons given as to why this Xplornet 4g wireless stick was not good enough for the people of Sask was because devices like the iPad won't accept a 4G mobile internet stick. At least, that's what the press is reporting.

I'm not sure why Sasktel's HTS (High speed 5-meg satellite) was deemed not good enough for them. I would have to go back and read.

But yeah.. that's what it is.

funny_one
Previously known as 'Deadpool'

join:2010-11-01

To clarify, Xplornet doesn't offer a 4G wireless stick. It's WiMAX and it's a fixed-wireless service (a modem is mounted on your house). The RJ45 is then run to your PC or router inside.

What the press is likely reporting is what residents are experiencing with the cellular providers and their equipment...



Shrug

@videotron.ca

That could be it.
So that 3 choices. Which is a heck of a lot more than many have.

Though I agree mobile should not be an option, but it is in many communities and the gov even gives Bell money to set this up (this is what the rural broadband fund has been paying for). But for Sask, they seem to be special for some reason.



Shrug

@videotron.ca
reply to funny_one

CBC states they have the option of Xplornet & 4G mobile internet stick
See:
SaskTel changing rural high-speed internet service
»www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatche···tel.html

PostMedia states people have the choice of satellite and 4G mobile internet stick
For example, SaskTel has calculated about 7,000 of the affected customers could move onto a high-speed satellite service option while "99.99-per-cent" of the remaining 1,000 could be covered by a "mobile stick" system that utilizes the new 4G (fourth-generation) Internet technology that recently became available.
See:
SaskTel plays down rural Internet changes that impact some users
»www.leaderpost.com/news/SaskTel+···ory.html

PostMedia goes on to state 4G stick is unacceptable:
The other option being offered is an Internet "stick" which, as columnist Murray Mandryk noted Wednesday, only works with devices with USB ports, which excludes smart phones and iPads.
See:
SaskTel plan hurts customers
»www.thestarphoenix.com/opinion/S···ory.html

Plus they also have Rogers and Telus there.
See:
Rogers unveils LTE network for Regina, Saskatoon Rogers touts LTE network
»www.thestarphoenix.com/technolog···ory.html

That's more options than many in Ontario & Quebec and yet the gov never stepped in. Unless it was to give money to Bell, Rogers or Telus to bring you a mobile internet stick and rob you blind.

Per SaskTel:
"So there are two options; it just depends on whether you're in the coverage zone - or not - of our 4G or satellite because the high-speed throughput, for the moment, has a few whites spaces."

Seems to me everything is already covered. People just don't want the "usage plans", "Data limits", "Contracts", and "Fines" that come with 4g and/or satellite, and the gov appears to be agreeing with them.

So they already have coverage, there is no need to give a speech about internet being a "Necessity". They have more than what a lot of other rural people have.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.