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vue666
Small block Chevys never die
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to TLS2000

Re: Canadian comes home from Guantanamo

He would be tried for treason in a Canadian court and not in an American court...

I thought the Americans charged him with spying?



capdjq
Premium
join:2000-11-01
Coastie
reply to TLS2000

Oman Khadr will apply for, and obtain parole, in 2013. He will sue the Canadian authorities and obtain a large settlement.
Meanwhile, to me at least, he remains an enigma. Is Omar Khadr truly a remorseless threat, a jihadist bent on revenge? Or does he want to serve his time and live a normal life?
All I know, from what I've read, not once does Khadr accept even a shred of responsibility for his lot, consistently shifting the blame to everyone else. Except, of course, to the man who dispatched him into battle...... his father.
I don't think I will ever understand the mind of Omar Khadr and I highly doubt many Canadians ever will.
All I know is that I wont lose any sleep over him.
--
"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it."


peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON

said by capdjq:

All I know is that I wont lose any sleep over him.

You might if he moves near you or a relative.


loosedobbs

join:2006-06-13
Toronto
reply to PX Eliezer7

We have many people in Canada, who supported, pressured Jean Chretien to bring Khadr's Father from Pakistan Jail. That included newspapers, poltical parties and TV media who supported Sr Khadr's freedom.
This is the reason terrorism thrived in Canada. Be is Tamil fighters, Sikh Terrorist or now Al Quaeda fighters. For some Canadians human rights of terrorists matter more than terrorism they spread around.
The whole family is Al Qaeda Supporter. Just crazy...
Abdul Karim, age 23 was injured and paralyzed in gun battle and getting medical treatment in Toronto.
Yes same gun battle in which his terrorists father was killed.
Toronto get ready, you will soon have new patient.

I was always "Bring the Kid home" but never let him set foot outside jail. ever.

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MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

3 edits
reply to Wolfie00

Re: Canadian comes home from Guantanamo

said by Wolfie00:

Correct. The issue here is the determination of the sentence. We are dealing here with something rarely dealt with in ordinary criminal law. Normal assumptions about criminal motivations and rehabilitation may be naive and inadequate in this situation, and put Canadians at risk.

If the US has such an ironclad case on him, why did they plea bargain? It was that the whole legality of the kangaroo court in Gimo is in question and that whatever they 'got' out of him was obtained by torture.

He plead guilty because his lawyers were denied access to evidence to mount a proper defense. With the plea, which I'm sure he'll recant, and probably justifiably so, he gets out of prison and has a chance to have a life. A number of prisoners @ Gitmo mentally cracked and committed suicide under the "treatment" regime there. Remember - just because you're a prisoner somewhere doesn't make one guilty of anything.

So let me ask two questions of those of you here who thinks Khadr should be drawn, quartered, hanged, boiled, burned, etc....

Q1:
If a US soldier showed up on your doorstep tomorrow (ie. US invaded Canada for some reason - or let's say if was the French were invading us for labeling Niagara sparkling wine as "Champagne") and started shooting into your house, at you & your family/kids, what would you do?
a) invite him in to drink beer and watch HNIC?
b) say, "Please handcuff me, put a black hood over my head, and torture me"?
c) double-tap him in the head with your unregistered long gun?

Q2:
Irrespective of the law, would you feel that you did the right thing in choosing option C under the circumstances?


loosedobbs

join:2006-06-13
Toronto
reply to peterboro

said by peterboro:

said by capdjq:

All I know is that I wont lose any sleep over him.

You might if he moves near you or a relative.

That s the reason he chose not to live in Toronto.
But I guess Some Sikh separatist fighter, with big berry farm may be near him. You never know as they are very strong in BC.


Kardinal
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reply to vue666

said by vue666:

He would be tried for treason in a Canadian court and not in an American court...

I thought the Americans charged him with spying?

Is there some news of this 'treason trial' that I've missed, or is this just rhetoric of "I wish we would......" world?

Khadr was taken to back to Pakistan at age 10, and there he was 'home schooled' or attended schools with decidedly radical slants. He was 10, remember. Over the next five years, he was turned into a child soldier by his family and schooling that the family permitted, at which point he was captured at age 15 after a firefight in Afghanistan. Repeat: he was 15.

(I'm repeating the age because it's something that certain schools of thought like to brush off as an inconvenience to what is coming next)

Canada is a member of the United Nations, even if our PM is ignoring them because he got stiffed for the Security Council seat he wanted, and an active member at that. The UN's definition of a child soldier:

quote:
A child associated with an armed force or armed group refers to any person below 18 years of age who is, or who has been, recruited or used by an armed force or armed group in any capacity, including but not limited to children, boys and girls, used as fighters, cooks, porters, spies or for sexual purposes.
(Source: Paris Principles on the Involvement of Children in Armed Conflict 2007)
(from this page)

To recap: he went to the other side of the world at age 10, and his parents gave him a very biased and radical education and world to live in. He was captured at age 15, which is 3 years inside the UN definition of what a child soldier is no matter how some of the foaming-at-the-mouth, hang-him-high, he's-not-a-real-Canadian types want to downplay it.

.......or do we now consider 10 year olds capable of standing up to their parents and defying the social environment and education system they are placed in. Really?
--
All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

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Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

If a 15 year-old murders someone in Canada, can he be tried as an adult? How many years in prison would he get?



Kardinal
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said by Bob4:

If a 15 year-old murders someone in Canada, can he be tried as an adult? How many years in prison would he get?

The question has nothing to do with these circumstances, so it's nothing more than a tangent. However, take some time to look up the answer to your questions and get back to us with the answer. Please quote your sources too.
--
All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

- Peart / Lifeson / Lee
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Ian
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join:2002-06-18
ON
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reply to Kardinal

said by Kardinal:

Canada is a member of the United Nations, even if our PM is ignoring them because he got stiffed for the Security Council seat he wanted, and an active member at that. The UN's definition of a child soldier:

At further risk of dragging it to CanPol, but just to be clear; you do know an entirely different PM was in charge when Khadr was taken prisoner and taken to Gitmo, right?
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Kardinal
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said by Ian:

At further risk of dragging it to CanPol, but just to be clear; you do know an entirely different PM was in charge when Khadr was taken prisoner and taken to Gitmo, right?

My comment was a overall observation on where the UN seems to stand in the pecking order of importance/relevance to both the current government of this country and some of our fellow citizens.

As to the whole Khadr situation, I'm not blaming this solely on our current PM or current government; I'm taking a stab at the federal governments that have been in power since 2002 and have taken the situation to where it is today. If someone does blame entirely on one PM/government but not all of them, it's a political-colour-glasses situation rather than looking at the situation as a whole.

My comment was more to how we are actually a member of the UN even if it doesn't seem to be all that important at times. We're also a signature country for the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (which has additions that include coverage of child soldiers).
--
All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

- Peart / Lifeson / Lee
Join Team Helix


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
reply to Kardinal

said by Kardinal:

.......or do we now consider 10 year olds capable of standing up to their parents and defying the social environment and education system they are placed in. Really?

Again, so why wasn't his mother charged?

If Omar is blameless for his situation, why were his parents not held responsible? His father is dead, but his mother has been quite vocal about supporting terrorism. I do actually feel that he had little choice in his path in life. Again, why were his parents not held responsible. We're not talking about a typical child soldier, ripped from their family. It's just as likely that if he's released and returns to his mother's home that she'll encourage him to return to the fight.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey
reply to Kardinal

Actually, it is relevant. You're saying that because of the UN, a murderer who's 17 years 11 months and 27 days old is a child and should be treated as such. I'm saying they're murders and should be locked up for a very long time or executed.



shrug

@videotron.ca
reply to A Lurker

said by A Lurker:

Again, why were his parents not held responsible.

From what I understand his parents, or at least his father, was p[art of the freedom fighters fighting the Russians when Russia invaded afgan. All these "freedom fighters" were bankrolled and taught how to fight by... CIA.

CIA set up a lot of these "camps" or schools to tech kids how to fight for "freedom".


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to vue666

said by vue666:

Just another Canadian citizen?

A Canadian citizen, just like you, with the same rights and priviliges.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to Bob4

said by Bob4:

Actually, it is relevant. You're saying that because of the UN, a murderer who's 17 years 11 months and 27 days old is a child and should be treated as such. I'm saying they're murders and should be locked up for a very long time or executed.

And, thankfully, you neither live in Canada nor can you vote here. We follow the Rule of Law and honour our UN treaties (unless the Reformatories choose not to) here.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


vue666
Small block Chevys never die
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to A Lurker

said by A Lurker:
Again, so why wasn't his mother charged?

Great point...


loosedobbs

join:2006-06-13
Toronto
reply to PX Eliezer7

Click for full size
Problem with Canada or Canadians supporting terrorism.
The only problem is which side you define is committing terrorism.

»www.cbc.ca/thenational/about/cor···senault/

His words "manages to get "THEM" paychecks, uniforms and other support with the help of live Satellite imagery". He is IT guy by day.

Just change his support to AlQaeda and whole equation changes.


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
reply to vue666

said by vue666:

Great point...

Yes, but I doubt any of those who support Omar's release will ever answer it. It's easier to ignore it. Again, I should note that my biggest concern is that his release in Canada will return him to the group that forced him into his original situation.
Expand your moderator at work

NCRGuy

join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to vue666

Re: Canadian comes home from Guantanamo

said by vue666:

said by A Lurker:
Again, so why wasn't his mother charged?

Great point...

Not really...


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to vue666

said by vue666:

said by A Lurker:
Again, so why wasn't his mother charged?

Great point...

Because she committed no crime?
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


vue666
Small block Chevys never die
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1

But I thought the argument is he was a child soldier brainwashed by his parents...


PX Eliezer7
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Hutt River
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reply to DKS

Meh, encouraging your kid to become a child soldier at age 10 (in violation of UN treaty as you said) should be SOME sort of crime....

Contributing to the delinquency of a minor, we'd call it here....

But it looks like when the family sent the boy to terror camp, they were not living in Canada....


NCRGuy

join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
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reply to vue666

said by vue666:

But I thought the argument is he was a child soldier brainwashed by his parents...

Please cite the specific offence you believe she committed. Not what you think should be illegal, or what you think she should be charged with -- a specific contravention of Canadian law you believe she committed.

Bob4
Account deleted

join:2012-07-22
New Jersey

Did she send any money overseas? Charge her with financial support of terrorists.



Kardinal
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reply to Bob4

said by Bob4:

Actually, it is relevant. You're saying that because of the UN, a murderer who's 17 years 11 months and 27 days old is a child and should be treated as such. I'm saying they're murders and should be locked up for a very long time or executed.

No, you're pulling a tangent, again, and putting words in my mouth. I've said nothing about the UN and a murderer, I'm talking about someone who is a child soldier. If you'd like to stay on target, we can move forward. If you'd like to keep up the obfuscation for your own entertainment, by all means continue on your own.
--
All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

- Peart / Lifeson / Lee
Join Team Helix


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
reply to DKS

said by DKS:

A Canadian citizen, just like you, with the same rights and priviliges.

Well I'm a Canadian citizen too, and I've never plead guilty to "murder in violation of the laws of war, attempted murder in violation of the laws of war, conspiracy, two counts of providing material support for terrorism and spying."

If I had, I think I might assume that my "rights and privileges" would be curtailed somewhat compared to the average citizen.

He's eligible for parole next summer. That's by no means a guarantee that he'll receive it. And if he does, there will likely be conditions interfering with his "rights and privileges" as parole conditions.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Kardinal
Dei Gratia Regina
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said by Ian:

Well I'm a Canadian citizen too, and I've never plead guilty to "murder in violation of the laws of war, attempted murder in violation of the laws of war, conspiracy, two counts of providing material support for terrorism and spying."

True, but do you think you might after 8 years of psychological warfare (along with who knows what else, like waterboarding perhaps) in Gitmo? Just to get it to stop? I like to think I'm pretty strong mentally, but given some of the tactics that have been spoken of being used in GB, I'm not sure I could last 8 years without doing something to make it stop, including signing a 'confession' of something I didn't do.

He didn't accept that plea bargain until he'd been in detention in either Bagram or Guantanamo bay for almost a third of his life. No matter how screwed up his 10-15 year span was, I shudder to think what he endured during the time in detainment would do to anyone regardless of their state when they went in.
--
All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter, dreamers turn to look at the cars

- Peart / Lifeson / Lee
Join Team Helix