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pandora
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reply to shdesigns

Re: Anyone ever take on a massive re-wire of a home?

said by shdesigns:

I'd put some conduit in place anywhere it would be difficult to run wires later.

That is a given, not only inside the house but under new asphalt driveway areas.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"

tomdlgns
Premium
join:2003-03-21
Chicago, IL
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reply to pandora

said by pandora:

It's about $31 shipping per 1000' box.

wow, that is just crazy. i normally get cat5/6 locally and never had to buy it online and pay shipping.

tomdlgns
Premium
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Chicago, IL
kudos:1
reply to pandora

said by pandora:

said by Edrick:

Don't do an analog surveillance system unless you like being out dated.

The cameras use coax to a DVR which connects via HDMI and Ethernet to display what was recorded.

Why would I care about the camera technology itself? Isn't the DVR Internet capability sufficient?

he is telling you to use CAT6 cable for the cameras, meaning, buy IP cameras and dont use analog cameras.

but that is a different topic.

the DVR controls the live view/camera connections and the main thing that matters here are the frames per second of the unit. the higher the FPS, the better.

the problem is, not matter how how the FPS is and no matter how great the resolution is, IP cameras are going to look cleaner all the time.

analog cameras- Standard Definition (TV)

IP cameras- High Definition (TV)

that is the best example i can give. everyone who has analog cameras thinks they look great, but then they see IP Cameras and it is game over.

the problem with IP cameras is that they are expensive, but they are getting cheaper because they are becoming more common. if anything, i would consider running a few extra cat6 wires to the locations where you will want cameras that way you dont have to spend $$$ on the IP camera stuff now.

it sounds like you have your mind made up about analog cameras, but i would run extra cat6 with your coax.

pandora
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reply to tomdlgns

said by tomdlgns:

said by pandora:

It's about $31 shipping per 1000' box.

wow, that is just crazy. i normally get cat5/6 locally and never had to buy it online and pay shipping.

Yup, shipping is way too high. I'll look at our local electrical supply store later today.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"

pandora
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reply to tomdlgns

Tom,
I can get an 8 channel DVR with 8 cameras for under $800. An extra 8 cameras cost about $400. That is 16 night vision, fixed mount, camera's with DVR (DVR supports Internet access to the cameras).

Where can I get 16 night vision PoE IP cameras and a low power DVR to be on 24 7 for $1,200? PoE must be a standard supported by folks like Cisco, not some hybrid injector. 16 injectors will require a lot of power sockets, be very energy inefficient, and clutter up my IT cabinet adding almost 1/3 to it's size.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"


tomdlgns
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Chicago, IL
kudos:1

yeah, you cant get IPs at that price, stick with your DVR, but i would still run cat6 to each camera location. the IP cams are going to drop in price, same as the poe switches for powering up poe cameras/devices.

the beauty of IP cams is that you only need 1 network cable from the camera to your switch vs coax which is a thicker cable and has 2 low voltage power cables for powering the camera.

you want to future proof these runs as best you can and running cat6 with the camera coax is a very good idea.

cable is cheap, labor is expensive.


pandora
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That's a good point. Thanks for the suggestion.



Edrick
I aspire to tell the story of a lifetime
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join:2004-09-11
Woburn, MA
reply to pandora

You can always run Cat6 to the cameras and use a cheap video baluns to change it to a BNC connection. The problem you're going to run into is in 5-10 years time the IP cameras will be the cheap ones and it's going to be hard to find replacements that are still analog as time goes on.


pandora
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said by Edrick:

You can always run Cat6 to the cameras and use a cheap video baluns to change it to a BNC connection. The problem you're going to run into is in 5-10 years time the IP cameras will be the cheap ones and it's going to be hard to find replacements that are still analog as time goes on.

This seems like a very good idea. I'd be able to run ethernet, but use it as coax until a later upgrade without needing to re-run anything.

Is this the type of device you are writing about? - »www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Video-N···s=baluns or is this the type of device - »www.amazon.com/LTS-LTA1010-Passi···s=baluns

Until your post, I had no idea a device like this existed. It will solve allow future proofing my home, while at the same time permit use of existing low cost surveillance equipment.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"

tomdlgns
Premium
join:2003-03-21
Chicago, IL
kudos:1

yeah, but you still need power if you plan on running analog cameras.

EDIT- i didnt click on the links, looks like those have power leads as well. yeah, this will work for you, assuming voltage isnt a problem.

cat5 strands are thinner than the 18awg that the power cables attached to coax are, so you might have to use extra pair for power, that is the only thing i would look out for.



Edrick
I aspire to tell the story of a lifetime
Premium
join:2004-09-11
Woburn, MA
reply to pandora

said by pandora:

said by Edrick:

You can always run Cat6 to the cameras and use a cheap video baluns to change it to a BNC connection. The problem you're going to run into is in 5-10 years time the IP cameras will be the cheap ones and it's going to be hard to find replacements that are still analog as time goes on.

This seems like a very good idea. I'd be able to run ethernet, but use it as coax until a later upgrade without needing to re-run anything.

Is this the type of device you are writing about? - »www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Video-N···s=baluns or is this the type of device - »www.amazon.com/LTS-LTA1010-Passi···s=baluns

Until your post, I had no idea a device like this existed. It will solve allow future proofing my home, while at the same time permit use of existing low cost surveillance equipment.

Looks to me either of those will work, as you're using them for your home I wouldn't worry too much about voltage drop since the distance shouldn't be anything extraneous.
--
Edrick Smith
Independent Film & Broadcast Producer
»edricksmith.com

pandora
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said by Edrick:

Looks to me either of those will work, as you're using them for your home I wouldn't worry too much about voltage drop since the distance shouldn't be anything extraneous.

The distance could be up to 125'. My home is 95' long, the distance to the outside of my driveway is about 125' from the location of likely location of the DVR.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"


dnoyeB
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Southfield, MI
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reply to pandora

Running two breakers to each room? Outlets @ 20A, lights @15A? You must plan on a massive breaker box!? That is going to be some significant wiring. Not that I wouldn't like to have that. I can't run my steamer and my Steam Press at the same time without tripping the breaker

Might think about using AFCIs on the outlets as well. I put those in the kids rooms.
--
dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16


pandora
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said by dnoyeB:

Running two breakers to each room? Outlets @ 20A, lights @15A? You must plan on a massive breaker box!? That is going to be some significant wiring. Not that I wouldn't like to have that. I can't run my steamer and my Steam Press at the same time without tripping the breaker

Might think about using AFCIs on the outlets as well. I put those in the kids rooms.

I think AFCI is code now. The initial power wire order follows:

8- 12-2 romex
4- 12-3 romex
6- 14-2 romex
4- 14-3 romex

Came to $1,688 at Lowes before my 10% discount and sales tax.

2 200 amp 40 slot panels are being installed. Legacy panels will be removed.

Low voltage will be run to a wall mount 12U 19" rack.
--
"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman"


dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
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Tripp Lite has some nice wall boxes for the network. I have my server and router and switch, etc. in one. Very happy.

Also, I have been buying my network cabling from cat5ecableguy.com since he was cat5cableguy...
--
dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16

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