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Curious1

@coxfiber.net

[MoP] assassination or subtlety for pve, mist of pandaria

Hi,
I have been playing a sub rogue uptill lvl 90 now and notice that my dps has been lingering around 25-30k ish in dungeons.Where as my fellow dps in group have been pushing like 50k(mage/lock/tanks etc to name a few).It didnt bother me much initially but now i have people telling me in party chat that i suck on the meter .Should i switch to assassination instead? the stat priority that i have been following is agil>hit+exp>mastery>haste>crit, please help.My rogue is a orc Rogue on trollbane called "kickthehabit", i would be very grateful if some fellow rogues lurking on these forums could help me out with some advice


djlar

join:2009-04-23
799228

I had to switch to combat again, most of not all bosses have adds, nothing's better to hit 2 targets all the time with blade flurry, and during lust hit all my new CDs, I'm also an orc, and I'll take that 4500 AP from racial anytime.. use it with shadow blades and trinket = tons of burst damage (I hit above the 100K dps mark during burst)



qualitybobby
Premium
join:2009-12-29
Middleville, NY
reply to Curious1

I've done all my levelling and dailies as assassination and it's been fine. My heroics have been decent, but I'm still rocking the legendaries, so my dps is gimped a bit. I've still only gotten one dagger to drop, so I'll keep rolling until I get another.

For next week's raid, I'll be combat though. Like djlar said, seems like every encounter has adds, and blade flurry makes combat almost mandatory for those fights.



Curious12

join:2012-10-01
Newport News, VA
reply to djlar

Thanks for the quick reply Also with combat there is no need to have 2 daggers right ? can use fist weapon +fist weapon ?



Skittles
Premium
join:2011-03-31

combat:

sword/sword
mace/mace
axe/axe
fist weapon/fist weapon

with any combination of the above acceptable MH always has a slow weapon and OH can have a dagger or a slow weapon. Combat is all good.



Curious1

@coxfiber.net
reply to djlar

for boss with no adds does combat still come up on top ? shadow pan dungeon comes to mind for single boss fights



bTU

join:2009-04-22
Aurora, CO
reply to Curious1

When I checked noxxic over the weekend their simcraft said sub was pulling about 92k in T14 normal, with all raid buffs and boss debuffs available, followed by combat at 89k and muti at 86k.
--
He who controls the Spice, controls the universe.



Curious12

join:2012-10-01
Newport News, VA

yea thats what i read too, maybe i am doing something wrong or my stats priority is just not right ....If someone can armory my toon and take a look i would be very grateful .

Toon name - Kickthehabit(orc rogue)
Server - trollbane



qualitybobby
Premium
join:2009-12-29
Middleville, NY
reply to Curious1

said by Curious12:

for boss with no adds does combat still come up on top ? shadow pan dungeon comes to mind for single boss fights

It seems that all 3 are within a fairly narrow margin. I'd be comfortable playing whichever spec I enjoyed the most/was best at. Sub might be best in theory, but if you don't play it often or well, you'd be far better off playing your preferred spec.


Curious12

join:2012-10-01
Newport News, VA
reply to Curious12

said by Curious12:

yea thats what i read too, maybe i am doing something wrong or my stats priority is just not right ....If someone can armory my toon and take a look i would be very grateful .

Toon name - Kickthehabit(orc rogue)
Server - trollbane

anyone ?

cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE

couple things, i know .22 % hit is not much but it does help try to squeeze that in, and you not enchanted or gemmed so i would say that youre doing fine you dont have anything to complain about.

i would ask why you reforged 674 haste to get to 659 haste? keep more haste, squeeze some more crit or something to get your hit to 7.5 and then worry about mastery.

oh youre a rogue youre not hindered by a wasted global, drop the +60 expertise for a hit or haste gem

--
Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau!
"What happened in here?" " Seems to have been a bit of a squabble." "They're all dead!" " More of a tif then."



Curious12

join:2012-10-01
Newport News, VA

1 edit

Thank you for looking at my gear . When i get home i will look at the haste i reforged out, i was trying to follow the mastery >haste logic.Which one of the following is the right stat priority i get confused as different websites say different

1) Agil>hit+exp>mastery>haste>crit

Or
2) Agil >hit+exp>haste>mastery>crit

so expertise is not that important for a rogue ?


Arsinic

join:2011-02-17
Ruffs Dale, PA
kudos:1

1 edit

I havent read anything on MoP rogue as Ive swittched to monk, but for previous rogue stats it was

Agil>hit+exp>haste/crit/mastery..

Im not certain if the new talents make mastery more worth it, but it was the worst for sub previously. With the 90 patch thats the itemization i was using at 85 and it was legit.

Sub requires a lot of micro management that other rogue specs dont require. It is a bit more difficult while learnign the fights to maintian a proper rotation if you arent well versed in the nuances of sub. Try out lolbladeflurry if your worried about meters. If I get sat for raid tonight ill probably level up my rogue a bit and test the sub waters(damn out of town weekend wedding cutting into my heroic grind)


cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE
reply to Curious12

technically no, if you have energy you can hit shit, hince why you are not hurt by a wasted global cause if you have the energy then boom hit his ass, this is where haste helps its not end all but it helps with energy regen when you arent in a burn phase, blowing cooldowns. mastery for sub, bleed damage is great, but if youre resource starved then it does fuck all. i would say mastery mathematically wins out over haste but not by that much, hit is the important stat, as for exp when youre out doing dailies or w/e it may take you a bit longer to stab a bitch in the ass but, in a raid or dungeon, where the mob should be focused on a tank then you shouldnt see a noticeable difference from 7.5 to 6.5 exp.

so i would go agi>hit>mastery>= haste>exp>crit
--
Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau!
"What happened in here?" " Seems to have been a bit of a squabble." "They're all dead!" " More of a tif then."



Curious12

join:2012-10-01
Newport News, VA

said by cymraeg:

technically no, if you have energy you can hit shit, hince why you are not hurt by a wasted global cause if you have the energy then boom hit his ass, this is where haste helps its not end all but it helps with energy regen when you arent in a burn phase, blowing cooldowns. mastery for sub, bleed damage is great, but if youre resource starved then it does fuck all. i would say mastery mathematically wins out over haste but not by that much, hit is the important stat, as for exp when youre out doing dailies or w/e it may take you a bit longer to stab a bitch in the ass but, in a raid or dungeon, where the mob should be focused on a tank then you shouldnt see a noticeable difference from 7.5 to 6.5 exp.

so i would go agi>hit>mastery>= haste>exp>crit

Thanks man, i am going to reforge when i get home n try this out.Will having low expertise impact my aoeing stuff down in dungeons ?

on the flip side i got some better gear and did 65k on the first boss in the seige of nizhau temple(vizir something is his name).

cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE

the exp is for sub, sub really doesnt have an effective aoe, even with the new and improved talents, if its a heavy aoe fight switch to com or muti
--
Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau!
"What happened in here?" " Seems to have been a bit of a squabble." "They're all dead!" " More of a tif then."



Curious12

join:2012-10-01
Newport News, VA

said by cymraeg:

the exp is for sub, sub really doesnt have an effective aoe, even with the new and improved talents, if its a heavy aoe fight switch to com or muti

Thanks man will do .One more question , for a while i was rolling with dagger in main hand and fist weapon in OH as i couldnt get a good dagger for my OH.Couldnt equip the fist weapon in the MH as that throws backstab out of the window.For sub is it good to roll with daggers on both hands or dagger mh and axe/fist weapon oh is good ?

cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE

sub/muti = dag/dag

com refer to Skittles list



Curious12

join:2012-10-01
Newport News, VA

said by cymraeg:

sub/muti = dag/dag

com refer to Skittles list

Awesome, one of the daggers i have has lower damage than the heroic one i have .Does it matter which dagger i equip on what hand ?


Ginjer
Premium
join:2009-08-14
Honolulu, HI

said by Curious12:

said by cymraeg:

sub/muti = dag/dag

com refer to Skittles list

Awesome, one of the daggers i have has lower damage than the heroic one i have .Does it matter which dagger i equip on what hand ?

Does that matter anymore? Same with weapon speed? I thought I read somewhere they changed that? Could be wrong.
--
67 Pogasim (Monk Brewmaster), 85 Sunlock (Dwarf Lock), 85 Shocktrio (Draeni Shaman)


Curious12

join:2012-10-01
Newport News, VA

which hand to equip slow or fast weapons was out of the window i remember reading that somewhere, but what hand to equip the lower damage dagger versus the higher damage dagger i am unsure of



Skittles
Premium
join:2011-03-31

As of MoP daggers are now 1.8 weapon speed, so if you are playing muti or sub the dagger in your MH will be 1.8 regardless so just use the highest dps dagger.

For combat, which is a very versitile spec to level and dungeon with, use the list I gave in my last post in this thread.



bTU

join:2009-04-22
Aurora, CO
reply to Curious12

For all specs you want the highest DPS weapon in the MH slot. Though for sub and muti you have to have a dagger in MH to use backstab or mutilation. Oddly enough, even muti and sub benefit from SnD being up now, so you're going to see some rogues looking like they are in seizures.
--
He who controls the Spice, controls the universe.



Skittles
Premium
join:2011-03-31

said by bTU:

... so you're going to see some rogues looking like they are in seizures.

lol. My friend in RL plays a warlock in my guild and when we run together and I pop killing spree he always says it looks like a damn helicopter crashed into the mobs...love that shit


Curious12

join:2012-10-01
Newport News, VA
reply to bTU

sorry to sound like a scrub, but what is Snd ?



mettachain
Goblineer

join:2011-09-27
Azeroth
kudos:1

slice n dice (increase attack speed)



mettachain
Goblineer

join:2011-09-27
Azeroth
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
reply to Skittles

said by Skittles:

lol. My friend in RL plays a warlock

your friend needs to differentiate between games and real life
--
If you find the information in my post helpful or interesting, please throw me a Kudos. Thanks!


Curious12

join:2012-10-01
Newport News, VA
reply to mettachain

said by mettachain:

slice n dice (increase attack speed)

ahh thanks, gona go home n take out some of the reforge i have for exp and put mastery /haste instead


Skittles
Premium
join:2011-03-31
reply to mettachain

that or I need to try better syntax....



Curious12

join:2012-10-01
Newport News, VA
reply to Curious1

Also what are some good rogue addon's you guys recommend ?