1 recommendation |
latest Frontier failureAfter fighting with Frontier for the last three years over speeds and having them respond by changing their agreement to only guarantee 70% of the speed packages they sell. Not surprising that even at 70% still Not be able to supply 1 Mb down. SAD
Their latest nonsense needs to be addressed by all customers of their service. Frontier-Yahoo ! I am personally offended that some one would represent to me that I should pay them for a service that is available for free.
Read the Yahoo agreement and you will find that Yahoo reserves the right to, in the future charge fees for their service as well as all the monitoring and other crap yahoo is so famous for. Does that mean paying both Yahoo and Frontier for e-mail. WOW - talk about bending over.
Frontier supplied a advertisement free simple and secure mail service that was supplied as part of their DSL service. They have taken that away and replaced it with something that is available for free, but they are not reducing customer charges. Hence Frontier gets more and supplies less. The Frontier management chose to free up servers rather than purchasing the needed additional equipment and have chosen to represent this farce as a Free Upgrade complete with advertizing that you can not opt out of because that advertizing is what pays for the yahoo services ( read the TOS )
The only upgrade I see is getting out of Frontier. Unfortunately there are no options available in my location.
It is time for all the frustrated Frontier customers who have been abused by this company for too long to take a stand and litigate the issue.
We need to find a legal firm to institute a class action against Frontier for "False advertising" and "Failure to supply contracted services".
We can all start by sending complaints to FCC, State Attorney Generals, State Utility Commissions. Federal and state consumer agencies and so on.
Mine are in the process.
Document everything and the overwhelming preponderance of data might actually bring results
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
legal firms interested - please post - other parties input welcome |
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 HankSearching for a new Frontier
Premium Member
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV |
Hank
Premium Member
2012-Oct-1 1:10 pm
I fully understand your frustration. I have filed complaints with the FCC, they respond to the FCC but nothing has improved. The area manager just does not seem to care. |
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Hi Hank
Truly bothers me that that after all is said and done the only option is litigation.
when DSL 1st became available we signed up and it took 6 months to get it working - we then has a couple of years of service till the push started to increase customer base. We have not had promised service since and this latest attempt to get over on people proves they only have an interest in doing the least for the most.
They oversold server capacity and now are dumping e-mail to Yahoo
Seems that WV is part of the issue for granting monopoly status to Frontier effectively locking out other suppliers. |
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HankSearching for a new Frontier
Premium Member
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV ARRIS NVG443B
Ubiquiti NanoStation loco M2
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Hank
Premium Member
2012-Oct-1 1:51 pm
You are correct. The WV PUC authorized them to take over the Verizon areas and those are the areas getting improvement. The rural customers are not being looked after. They just keep over selling, the results is that speed and reliability have gone way downhill.
Unfortunately the email service for the last few years has been with a contract firm. But I refused to use the Yahoo mail service because as you I took the time to read the terms of service. You have absolute zero privacy and they will use the information they gather from your email for marketing. No thanks, that is not for me. |
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Hey Hank
As you have done we also have another e-mail service that we have paid through the years since dial up days. they will again become our primary.
Yahoo is dangerous and an invasion of personal privacy
Federal Trade commission is another contact.
Really don't get into this on line complaints but Frontier needs to be held accountable.
Now if we could only get accountability from DC LOL |
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 mike1965Geek4rent
join:2002-09-23
Marion, IL |
to Cycholobo
I agree with all of you......yahoo is the most unsecure e-mail ever.....on top of that my e-mail is currently down |
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| mike1965 |
I just checked I can log into my web mail.....but outlook is failing.......damn frontier they suck |
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gozer9
Premium Member
join:2010-08-09
Rochester, NY |
gozer9
Premium Member
2012-Oct-2 12:22 am
I bet the reason you can get into webmail and not pop3 is because of Frontier's DNS server's they seem to be changing them alot as they expand and make changes to thier network. And most of the time it causes some problems. Try a pub DNS like googl's or w/e |
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to mike1965
hi Mike
Just curious - has frontier gone Frontier-Yahoo where you are?
wondering if it's cross country of just local test here.
If they went yahoo on you within the last 2 weeks you would have received notice of this great new "Free Upgrade" to their mail service.
once in effect you can not access the acct till you agree to the New TOS with Yahoo basically giving away your first born.
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| Cycholobo |
to gozer9
hi Gozer
been noticing over last year DNS issues cross country - wouldn't be surprised at all to find feds hand in it all. |
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 darciliciousCyber Librarian
Premium Member
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR ·Ziply Fiber
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to Cycholobo
said by Cycholobo:Just curious - has frontier gone Frontier-Yahoo where you are?
wondering if it's cross country of just local test here.
It's everywhere, I'm in Oregon and on FiOS and my account is being switched over later this week. (But I don't give a rat's *ss as I never use an ISPs email service anyway. I've been through too many changes in the 10+ years I've lived in the same house: GTE, Verizon, and now Frontier). |
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 cdruGo Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN |
to Cycholobo
said by Cycholobo:Their latest nonsense needs to be addressed by all customers of their service. Frontier-Yahoo ! I am personally offended that some one would represent to me that I should pay them for a service that is available for free. Email is a value added service. Just like webspace, usenet, etc. A small fraction of a cent of your monthly service fee pays for email. You are not paying for email service. You are paying for internet access that just happens to have email service thrown in for free. Bitching and moaning that they no longer directly supply the service will fall on deaf ears. If you don't like what they provide, get a different email account elsewhere. There are hundreds of different free email accounts. Or get your own domain and host it at one of thousands of different hosting companies. |
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HankSearching for a new Frontier
Premium Member
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV ARRIS NVG443B
Ubiquiti NanoStation loco M2
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Hank
Premium Member
2012-Oct-2 4:02 pm
cdru - If you would had read the entire thread you would have seen that both Cycholobo and I have gone elsewhere for our email service. But it really does not make any difference if it is value added service or not, the problem is that they are requiring you to sign a new TOS that provides one with zero protection and permits Yahoo to use your emails to gather information about you that is provided to other organizations.
Plus it is just not the email change it is the entire exceptionally poor service Frontier provides and it is not limited to internet. |
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to cdru
Agreed. There are a ton of e-mail services that can be used to replace Frontier's Yahoo based e-mail service. My area has been with Yahoo since I signed up for DSL 8 months ago or so, I barely ever use it. |
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cdruGo Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN |
to Hank
said by Hank:cdru - If you would had read the entire thread you would have seen that both Cycholobo and I have gone elsewhere for our email service. Then why gripe here? But it really does not make any difference if it is value added service or not, the problem is that they are requiring you to sign a new TOS that provides one with zero protection and permits Yahoo to use your emails to gather information about you that is provided to other organizations. Don't like it? Don't use it. If you have another alternative for email then what's the big deal? I have my own domain that I use exclusively. I'm sure I have a Frontier email account of some sorts somewhere, but I never use it. If Frontier/Yahoo/whoever is going to base a profile on me, it's going to say that I have a gigantic need for natural male enhancement, I'm in need of a casual relationship with some Russian models, and some Nigerian has a business opportunity for only me. As I said in a previous post, valuing your privacy is one thing. Overestimating your worth/importance is another. |
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to mike1965
said by mike1965:I agree with all of you......yahoo is the most unsecure e-mail ever.....on top of that my e-mail is currently down
all email services are unsecure. you're naive if you think otherwise. |
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HankSearching for a new Frontier
Premium Member
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV ARRIS NVG443B
Ubiquiti NanoStation loco M2
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Hank to cdru
Premium Member
2012-Oct-2 9:09 pm
to cdru
said by cdru:Then why gripe here?
Don't like it? Don't use it. If you have another alternative for email then what's the big deal? I have my own domain that I use exclusively. I'm sure I have a Frontier email account of some sorts somewhere, but I never use it. If Frontier/Yahoo/whoever is going to base a profile on me, it's going to say that I have a gigantic need for natural male enhancement, I'm in need of a casual relationship with some Russian models, and some Nigerian has a business opportunity for only me.
Because this is the appropriate forum to complain or complement Frontier. Sorry about your perversion, is this really the place to address it?  |
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 Smith6612
MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY ·Charter
Ubee EU2251
Ubiquiti UAP-IW-HD
Ubiquiti UniFi AP-AC-HD
2 edits |
to chances14
said by chances14:said by mike1965:I agree with all of you......yahoo is the most unsecure e-mail ever.....on top of that my e-mail is currently down
all email services are unsecure. you're naive if you think otherwise. This. The reason Yahoo! accounts tend to get hacked often is due to how high profile they are (They are 18? years old). The same stuff happens with Live (now Outlook) and Google as well. Oh, and they, just like Yahoo! tailor ads towards you as well through the Google Advertising network or the Yahoo! Bing Advertising network. If you want some security and less folks stomping on what's in your inbox, host your own mail. Domains are $8 a year and a low powered host + 1 IP is literally just as cheap per month. It's not difficult, and I host my own mail off of my dedicated box for mail I actually want. Once it's out on the Internet or in a location where you cannot secure it, all bets are off and it's free to be intercepted, hacked, data mined, you name it. Also, keep in mind the golden rule of Internet security. You present it, they will come. |
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HankSearching for a new Frontier
Premium Member
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV |
Hank
Premium Member
2012-Oct-2 10:55 pm
Excellent post Smith6612. |
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1 recommendation |
to cdru
sad that you believe what you have presented.
next time you go for a six pack you may find that you are actually buying a 4 pack and the extra 2 are a "Value Added" bonus. Guess what comes next.
Our experience with Frontier/Citizens has been a long term relation. They are the ONLY carrier in the area due to an exclusive rights deal they have with the state. When DSL became available we signed up and it took about 6 months to get it right. Not a problem because then we had years of quality reliable service. Then came the client base expansion without the hardware expansion.
They "Oversold Capacity" and management is not willing to spend for hardware upgrade in rural areas and we have not had the service that we were guaranteed for the last three years. They did however change the guarantee to 70% of what they sold and still can't do it.
Frontier sells "Internet Packages" that include specific services including the e-mail that they replaced with Yahoo and ESPN and some other streaming.
Frontier does fine most of the time with small packets loss ranging from 0 to low single digits - bump to med sized packets and most of the time it ranges between 0 and low double digits - jump to large packets and we get 40 to 100% packet loss.
You can not "stream" with these numbers. They are selling services they can not supply. The streaming is useless and that doesn't matter. I would simply like to receive what I was sold. It would appear that you are okay with not getting what you have paid for. Apathy permeates society and the world is Not better because of it.
Maybe I'm "Old School" from a time when an entities worth to society was based on "Ethics", "Honor", and a persons "Word" or "Handshake". My wife and I have always provided our clients with what we say we will provide, and in most cases more.
It's all about "Ethics". Frontier is selling services they can not supply and that is the point.
Sorry You missed that. |
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cdruGo Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN |
cdru
MVM
2012-Oct-5 10:40 am
said by Cycholobo:next time you go for a six pack you may find that you are actually buying a 4 pack and the extra 2 are a "Value Added" bonus. Guess what comes next. Bad example as the 6 pack is what you're buying. You didn't subscribe to your ISP because you needed an email account. You subscribed because you needed internet access and it came with an email account. That six pack that you referred to...the bag that it was put in when you checked out is the email. They toss it in with your purchase. You technically pay for that bag as it does have a non-zero cost, but you don't pay less because you just carry it out instead of using a bag. It's all about "Ethics". Frontier is selling services they can not supply and that is the point.
Sorry You missed that.
I didn't miss that. Your post was regarding their latest failure, their email service. I commented specifically on that aspect. Your line quality and packet loss is a legitimate issue and I don't have a issue with complaining about that because that is what you are paying for. |
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HankSearching for a new Frontier
Premium Member
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV ARRIS NVG443B
Ubiquiti NanoStation loco M2
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to Cycholobo
Cycholobo - The folks that are responding and stating that email is not the service being purchased don't live in our area. So they single out the email aspect only; could be because the have stock in Frontier or are employed by them. The do not put up with the same poor service those of us in this area of WV do. I agree with you that when Frontier advertises a package deal and highlights what they are providing in that package deal then you have the right to expect them to provide decent service. It could be their local area is managed much different than the area you and I live in. So they have a different perspective of the service they receive from Frontier. Good for them that they are receiving decent service from Frontier. But they need to stop knocking folks that don't receive what they pay for, who receive service support that is well below acceptable standards, who get cut back on speed because Frontier does not address the congestion issue, and they just keep over selling an already over burdened system. That's only the internet side. I could list an equal or longer list of issues with the telephone service provided by Frontier. |
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darciliciousCyber Librarian
Premium Member
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR ·Ziply Fiber
1 edit |
So they single out the email aspect only No, the OP did that -- brought up the Yahoo! mail service as the "latest Frontier failure". could be because the have stock in Frontier or are employed by them. Uhm, no. But thanks for playing! |
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 NormanSI gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P
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to Cycholobo
said by Cycholobo:It's all about "Ethics". Frontier is selling services they can not supply and that is the point.
Ethics? In Corporate America? The only Corporate ethic is pleasing the shareholder. AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/CenturyLink; it is all the same, and it is all about the bottom line. |
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 wesm
Premium Member
join:1999-07-29
Seattle, WA |
wesm to Hank
Premium Member
2012-Oct-5 7:36 pm
to Hank
said by Hank:Cycholobo - The folks that are responding and stating that email is not the service being purchased don't live in our area. So they single out the email aspect only; could be because the have stock in Frontier or are employed by them. The do not put up with the same poor service those of us in this area of WV do. So? We're still Frontier subscribers. Our service areas got bought out, just like yours did. Why does having a different opinion or even a different service experience mean that our stance is automatically suspect? I can't believe you don't understand how insulting it is to imply that when someone thinks a company is decent at what they do, that person has obviously been bribed. In the FiOS areas of Washington, Frontier doesn't even advertise e-mail accounts. That said, of course Frontier has problems. We got our upstream speeds chopped with no warning and 15-30% price increases on Internet. Verizon had problems, and GTE before them had problems. My opinion (whoops, better check to make sure I haven't been paid for this opinion) is that Frontier has the same kinds of problems any other ISP has, but your frustration is compounded because you can't switch to another provider. Have you considered other outlets for your frustration, like trying to convince your city to build municipal broadband, assuming your state even allows that? Frankly, no amount of complaining to Frontier or the FCC is going to do any good. Frontier has a good deal going by being the only carrier in the area and being protected by both law and geography. There aren't enough people in your area to make having multiple, competitive carriers worthwhile. Even if there were, large broadband providers have made sure that smaller or municipal providers can't even try to make a dent. |
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NormanSI gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P
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to Cycholobo
said by Cycholobo:Their latest nonsense needs to be addressed by all customers of their service. Frontier-Yahoo ! I am personally offended that some one would represent to me that I should pay them for a service that is available for free.
Read the Yahoo agreement and you will find that Yahoo reserves the right to, in the future charge fees for their service as well as all the monitoring and other crap yahoo is so famous for. Does that mean paying both Yahoo and Frontier for e-mail. WOW - talk about bending over.
Frontier supplied a advertisement free simple and secure mail service that was supplied as part of their DSL service. They have taken that away and replaced it with something that is available for free, but they are not reducing customer charges. Hence Frontier gets more and supplies less. The Frontier management chose to free up servers rather than purchasing the needed additional equipment and have chosen to represent this farce as a Free Upgrade complete with advertizing that you can not opt out of because that advertizing is what pays for the yahoo services ( read the TOS )
Welcome to the club. Along with: AT&T, BT Internet (UK) Rogers Cable (Canada), Xtra (New Zealand), and Verizon (sort of). ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
legal firms interested - please post - other parties input welcome
Legally, I doubt if you could prove this agreement is a tort. And you seem to be in a tough spot, with no competition. When/if Yahoo!/Frontier start charging for email, and if you don't get an option to refuse the service, you would probably have a tort then. Do you have a link to the Frontier-Yahoo! ToS? I would be interested in comparing it with the AT&T-Yahoo! ToS. |
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HankSearching for a new Frontier
Premium Member
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV ARRIS NVG443B
Ubiquiti NanoStation loco M2
2 edits |
Hank to wesm
Premium Member
2012-Oct-5 10:06 pm
to wesm
Sorry, most of our area was not bought out. We are legacy Frontier customers. The reason you have a different opinion is because part of the agreement when the Verizon buyout occurred was that they would make improvements to those areas. Legacy customers in our area are not receiving the benefits of those improvements. Our service continues to degrade.
I do understand that it is insulting, but that was not the intent. So if you were insulted I do appologize. Likewise if you are receiving good service we are happy that you are. No one was accused of taking bribes. The entire point was that the statements by those from other areas have the misconception that the improvmeents are system wide. They are not, those of us in some of the legacy areas continue to have service degradation. |
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to NormanS
Hi NormanS
sorry but can't link - it went away after i declined - suspect it is a standard allowing Yahoo to "scan and analyze" everything as well as use the info as they choose and charge if they choose in the future.
Understand that nothing in a court of law is simply this or that but it would seem that it could fall into "Intentional" because their actions were deliberate, based on technical input from engineering staff and the consequences of their actions were known - ie they knew that they could not supply the expanded service base but continued to fraudulently sell, essentially taking payments under the false pretense that they would provide the service that they said they would.
on an individual basis in relation to the industry it's probably moot but the overall effect on the thousands of affected customers would seem significant.
I am not in any legal field so my thoughts are just that
appreciate your input - thanks |
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| Cycholobo |
to Smith6612
been watching your posts for years - always glad to have your input
thanks |
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| Cycholobo |
to Hank
SOO glad someone else gets it  ) thanks Hank |
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