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clocks11

join:2002-05-06
00000

WOW could use some faster speeds - PC MAG

WOW was one of the faster companies many years ago, but others seem to be upgrading faster.

»www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2410327,00.asp

adam1991

join:2012-06-16
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
in all seriousness, what do the faster speeds give?

As has been pointed out numerous times, the size of YOUR pipe is meaningless if the sender is dribbling things out to you.

It's also meaningless if the quality of the video you're streaming is already adequate.

This sounds like the typical American mania for "MOAR IS BETTER!" No, it's not. More is only more. Only better is better.

I strongly prefer a *solid* infrastructure, one that's well managed, over one that's not well managed but which oversells/overprices itself based on marketing buzzwords.

A balanced system is way, way, WAY better than an unbalanced system that's overselling itself.

Convincing a cableco that it must "go faster!" even when that's meaningless does nothing more than convince the cableco to stretch its resources and raise its prices.

I say, let the Crapcasts and TWs of the world chase after all that. Let WOW be the solid provider of serious value. That means reliably giving us what we need (not what marketeers are telling us what we should think we need) at a fair price.

This is not unlike the argument going around right now about cell phones and unlimited minutes/data. Figure it out--you don't need that at all.

And think ahead: when you demand that Netflix stream 1080p to your fancy new TV simply because you bought the sucker story and are paying for that 300 megabit service, Netflix also has to upgrade its systems to accommodate that. That doesn't come free; you will pay for that as well. Say bye-bye to the $8/month streaming.

And you'll probably screw everyone out of that eight buck/month price, too. Even those of us happy with what we're getting today will end up paying for those who demand their fancy new 8000K screens be filled with holodeck-quality entertainment.

So, back to the question: so what if everyone else is upgrading faster? Upgrading to what? And by that, I mean upgrading to what *experience*?

Just because all your friends thought it was a good idea to go jump off a cliff, doesn't mean it was a good idea to go jump off a cliff.

PCMag is completely wrong.

mogamer

join:2011-04-20
Royal Oak, MI
said by adam1991:

in all seriousness, what do the faster speeds give?

As has been pointed out numerous times, the size of YOUR pipe is meaningless if the sender is dribbling things out to you.

It's also meaningless if the quality of the video you're streaming is already adequate.

This sounds like the typical American mania for "MOAR IS BETTER!" No, it's not. More is only more. Only better is better.

I strongly prefer a *solid* infrastructure, one that's well managed, over one that's not well managed but which oversells/overprices itself based on marketing buzzwords.

A balanced system is way, way, WAY better than an unbalanced system that's overselling itself.

Convincing a cableco that it must "go faster!" even when that's meaningless does nothing more than convince the cableco to stretch its resources and raise its prices.

I say, let the Crapcasts and TWs of the world chase after all that. Let WOW be the solid provider of serious value. That means reliably giving us what we need (not what marketeers are telling us what we should think we need) at a fair price.

This is not unlike the argument going around right now about cell phones and unlimited minutes/data. Figure it out--you don't need that at all.

And think ahead: when you demand that Netflix stream 1080p to your fancy new TV simply because you bought the sucker story and are paying for that 300 megabit service, Netflix also has to upgrade its systems to accommodate that. That doesn't come free; you will pay for that as well. Say bye-bye to the $8/month streaming.

And you'll probably screw everyone out of that eight buck/month price, too. Even those of us happy with what we're getting today will end up paying for those who demand their fancy new 8000K screens be filled with holodeck-quality entertainment.

So, back to the question: so what if everyone else is upgrading faster? Upgrading to what? And by that, I mean upgrading to what *experience*?

Just because all your friends thought it was a good idea to go jump off a cliff, doesn't mean it was a good idea to go jump off a cliff.

PCMag is completely wrong.

If we followed your line of reasoning, we'd all still be on 1.5/512 dsl. Faster speeds allows multiple users with little or no slowdowns. When I signed on with WOW!, I had the 8/1 internet tier. I now have the 15/1 tier and it gets used. The 8/1 speed wasn't fast enough for Vudu HDX to stream 1080p. Now someone can watch a 1080p movie while someone else can do some other activity without any slowdowns for either user. If 15/1 was 20/4+ (like most other cabelcos have at the same pricepoint), there would be even less problems.

Hey, I have no problems with my WOW! service. But they do need to be more competitive with internet speeds and pricing.

clocks11

join:2002-05-06
00000
Reviews:
·Comcast
"If we followed your line of reasoning, we'd all still be on 1.5/512 dsl. "

Bingo! Nobody needed color tv, but some found it more enjoyable than blank & white. Nobody really needs a cell phone, but they tend to be more useful than land lines. Thankfully most people like innovation.

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
reply to mogamer
Well if you have no problem with WOW then why are you complaing about their prices and speeds? If you think you need faster HSI and better pricing, I'm sure ATT, Comcast and others will be happy to take your business, but don't expect to get any help from them when you need it.

clocks11

join:2002-05-06
00000
reply to clocks11
I bet WOWs 2meg tier are hurting their averages. I bet the lowest tier is usually higher with other companies.


ghettocowboy

@wideopenwest.com
2mb is pointless nowadays. they should have kept the 8/1 instead as the lowest, 15/2 instead of 15/1, bump the 30/3 to 30/5 and the 50/5 to 50/10 at least. adding a higher 75 or 100/25 would be nice for some but unneeded by most. the big issue is the low upload speeds.
being forced to use (or lose support) their router for the ultra tv is also a downfall. my dir-655 gave me much better signal. with the utv router i barely reach outside my house, my 655 i would pick up signal half a block down the street

adam1991

join:2012-06-16
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
Absolutely, WOW has bigger fish to fry than speeds. They need to fix the Arris Gateway problems NOW.

In the meantime, I will happily evangelize for the direct competition to their Ultra TV: the Ceton Q/Echo.

No silly Arris Gateway required, and bring your own router just like normal.


mix

join:2002-03-19
Utica, MI
reply to clocks11
2 Mbps is pointless? It's 2 Mbps faster than no internet...

clocks11

join:2002-05-06
00000
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by mix:

2 Mbps is pointless? It's 2 Mbps faster than no internet...

I think the point he was making is 2meg is barely broadband, and even outclassed by many DSL connections. Personally, I think WOW should bump it to 6 or 8meg.


Big Jimmy

@wideopenwest.com
reply to clocks11
What's the point here? I don't understand why anyone is comparing the 'average' speeds of companies, when they all offer better services. Yeah, no S* FiOS has the highest score, because their LOWEST service is 15/5. If you want 50mb internet service, you can call WOW or Comcast, but you've got to pay. Their average isn't that fast, but I don't buy 'average' internet service from my ISP, I order a specific tier of service. I don't care that someone the next house over is paying for 2mb service and lowering the block's average, because I'm getting my 15mb just fine.

mogamer

join:2011-04-20
Royal Oak, MI
reply to hottboiinnc
said by hottboiinnc:

Well if you have no problem with WOW then why are you complaing about their prices and speeds? If you think you need faster HSI and better pricing, I'm sure ATT, Comcast and others will be happy to take your business, but don't expect to get any help from them when you need it.

Have you ever heard of constructive critizism?

If I was the type of person who jumped at promo pricing, I would jump. But, I'm happy with WOW!'s customer service and haven't had any reliablity problems. I've dealt with both ATT and Comcast customer service and they are a nightmare. The money saved isn't worth it.

adam1991

join:2012-06-16
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
said by mogamer:

I've dealt with both ATT and Comcast customer service and they are a nightmare. The money saved isn't worth it.

that's what I meant when I said WOW is a huge value. Value is not price alone. Value involves a price component, but it's not defined by price--never mind what the marketers want you to think by calling their cheapest crap "value priced".

qbwaggle

join:2012-05-31
Troy, MI
said by adam1991:

that's what I meant when I said WOW is a huge value. Value is not price alone. Value involves a price component, but it's not defined by price--never mind what the marketers want you to think by calling their cheapest crap "value priced".

I tend to agree with Adam on this point. WOW's value in the marketplace is not that they are a bleeding edge high-speed internet provider, it's that they provide a good service at a reasonable price. Let other other companies lead the "speed" race. I understand the argument that if we as consumers don't push technology then we are stifling innovation, but that's not WOW's chosen place in the market. If Netflix were to start 1080p streaming that necessitated a 30 Mbps connection - and as a result demand for higher speeds increased and demand for 2 Mbps connections dropped - then I'm guessing WOW would react to this demand and reconfigure its offerings. Same idea with upload speeds. Most consumers don't care... 1 Mbps upload is fine for uploading pics to Facebook and online gaming. I'm sure people who use something like SlingBox a lot would appreciate higher upload speeds, but what % of consumers are avid SlingBox users? WOW's objective isn't to cater to the fringe users. If you are that person, you have the option to upgrade to one of WOW's higher priced offerings or go elsewhere if it better suits your needs.

And yes, please fix Ultra TV. It's been so long since the last update. Shaw Cable customers in Canada are getting more frequent updates to the firmware/software to their equivalent Arris WHDVR. Where is the "2.0" upgrade that Arris announced back in May? (Shaw doesn't have that update yet either, FTR.)


ghettocowboy

@wideopenwest.com
even that 3 up can be a bottleneck when you have multiple users in the house. i have more than 1 game system along with other users going regularly and can easily see a difference when im online by myself vs online with more users. with 1mb, more than 1 ps3 going was crap. 3mb is better, but i would still prefer at least 5 for some extra cushion. would i enjoy the 50/5? yes. but is it worth it to me to pay an extra $20/month when i dont need the extra down speed? no.


smunro622
Premium
join:2006-02-15
Madison Heights, MI
Reviews:
·Comcast Business..
reply to clocks11
everyone has valid points here, i can live with the 30 mb its the slow upload that is killing me... i do have to say that i work from home and use a ton of data on why i stick with wow.

I do agree the arris modem is a huge issue i got rid of ultra due to this being ajoke.. .i do stream hulu and apple tv. As for the price value i do have to question recent events i.e. outages across the whole state and for multiple hours. If they do have the cheaper product but cant deliver a reliable consistent connection i see no value in this product. Also they need to start adopting ipv6 very quickly, and fix the ultra tv issue... i would go back if i could DMZ or get a ethernet handoff for my router... also at the 50 mb speed you should get a sttic ip address and dont give me the BS there are a very valuable resource... i am sure wow is sitting on a ton of them just like oother isp's they want a premium for something they really doesnt cost them a thing..

slyphoxj

join:2002-06-23
Brook Park, OH
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ObiVoice
·WOW Internet and..
·magicjack.com
·Callcentric
reply to clocks11
said by clocks11:

"If we followed your line of reasoning, we'd all still be on 1.5/512 dsl. "

Bingo! Nobody needed color tv, but some found it more enjoyable than blank & white. Nobody really needs a cell phone, but they tend to be more useful than land lines. Thankfully most people like innovation.

That's debatable. Yea, cell phones can be used wherever you happen to go to, but they sound worse than landlines, drop calls, don't always work (or don't have nearly the "uptime" that landlines do), and you have to remember to keep a cell phone charged. And the internet service on cell phones is outrageously expensive and limited compared to DSL.

slyphoxj

join:2002-06-23
Brook Park, OH
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ObiVoice
·WOW Internet and..
·magicjack.com
·Callcentric
reply to clocks11
IMHO, 15/2 is adequate for most folks unless there are multiple people in the household using the connection at the same time (e.g, the kid is playing a game online on their Xbox360, mom is watching Netflix and dad is surfing the web on his PC, all at the same time).

Do a lot of sites throttle their download speed to about 10 Mbps or so?

I really wish WOW would have left the 8/1 and offer the 2/1 for $20 standalone to steal folks away from at&t DSL.

adam1991

join:2012-06-16
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
said by slyphoxj:

IMHO, 15/2 is adequate for most folks unless there are multiple people in the household using the connection at the same time (e.g, the kid is playing a game online on their Xbox360, mom is watching Netflix and dad is surfing the web on his PC, all at the same time).

ummm, for the record, 15/2 is adequate for exactly what you describe.

I can testify to that.

boopin

join:2011-08-25
said by adam1991:

said by slyphoxj:

IMHO, 15/2 is adequate for most folks unless there are multiple people in the household using the connection at the same time (e.g, the kid is playing a game online on their Xbox360, mom is watching Netflix and dad is surfing the web on his PC, all at the same time).

ummm, for the record, 15/2 is adequate for exactly what you describe.

I can testify to that.

This is true. Netflix doesn't use more than 4mbps or so. Online gaming uses almost nothing and neither does web surfing.

The only reason to have more than that is if you have multiple users streaming Netflix or other media services simultaneously and people downloading lots of large files.

Jeremy W

join:2010-01-21
reply to adam1991
said by adam1991:

As has been pointed out numerous times, the size of YOUR pipe is meaningless if the sender is dribbling things out to you.

This argument is about 10-15 years old, and it should stay in the past because it's definitely not relevant today. Most sites that host large downloads have huge pipes.
said by adam1991:

I strongly prefer a *solid* infrastructure, one that's well managed, over one that's not well managed but which oversells/overprices itself based on marketing buzzwords.

Yes, because clearly it's impossible to have a quality system that also offers fast speeds.
said by adam1991:

I say, let the Crapcasts and TWs of the world chase after all that.

Not only does Comcast offer some of the highest speeds, but they also have one of the most reliable networks. Your bashing is simply absurd, and not based in reality. Check out the FCC's report, which is far more useful than the graph in the article.
said by adam1991:

PCMag is completely wrong.

Someone's definitely wrong, but it's not PCMag. Do you work for WOW?

adam1991

join:2012-06-16
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
said by Jeremy W:

said by adam1991:

As has been pointed out numerous times, the size of YOUR pipe is meaningless if the sender is dribbling things out to you.

This argument is about 10-15 years old, and it should stay in the past because it's definitely not relevant today. Most sites that host large downloads have huge pipes.

Sure it's relevant. Read what I wrote: the size of YOUR pipe is meaningless if the sender is dribbling things out to you.

There is nothing at all dated or irrelevant about that statement.

Now, if absolutely everywhere you connect to has pipes that can fill your 50mbps garden hose, and you download many things from those sites, great. I would say that you are in the serious minority.

said by Jeremy W See Profile[bquote= adam1991 See Profile :

I strongly prefer a *solid* infrastructure, one that's well managed, over one that's not well managed but which oversells/overprices itself based on marketing buzzwords.

Yes, because clearly it's impossible to have a quality system that also offers fast speeds.

No, it's not. But it's damned unlikely, because that eats into profits. It's much easier for the marketing people to say "we have 300mbps" than for the technical people to deliver that reliably.

One thing you have to remember: it's far easier to keep a customer than to gain a new one. Once that customer is gained, you can deliver half-baked service and still keep him. That's how companies keep profits up.

said by Jeremy W See Profile[bquote= adam1991 See Profile :

I say, let the Crapcasts and TWs of the world chase after all that.

Not only does Comcast offer some of the highest speeds, but they also have one of the most reliable networks. Your bashing is simply absurd, and not based in reality.

OK. If you say so. Maybe it's just that they have total disregard for the customer and customer service.

said by Jeremy W See Profile[bquote= adam1991 See Profile :

PCMag is completely wrong.

Someone's definitely wrong, but it's not PCMag. Do you work for WOW?

No. Why would you say that? Oh, wait, I know--because in your world anyone who delivers factual information that you'd rather not hear, must be doing so because he has an agenda.

The fact remains, everything in this world is a compromise. No, it's not realistic to expect that a provider would provide huge speeds AND reliability AND a cheap price. You've never heard "fast, good, cheap--pick any two"? THAT'S the reality in life. And if I'm not going to pay huge amounts of money, then I have to pick between good and fast. And I'd rather have good.

You and others go ahead and fool yourselves into thinking that you can have all three.

I guess I could choose to pay huge amounts of money, in which case of course I would demand both good and fast. But that's the hard part, and those pesky corporate profits get in the way, and you know they'll deliver the absolute minimum they can to keep you paying the bill every month...

...so no, I'm under no illusion that the more I pay, the better product I get.

Jeremy W

join:2010-01-21
said by adam1991:

said by Jeremy W:

said by adam1991:

PCMag is completely wrong.

Someone's definitely wrong, but it's not PCMag. Do you work for WOW?

No. Why would you say that? Oh, wait, I know--because in your world anyone who delivers factual information that you'd rather not hear, must be doing so because he has an agenda.

What "factual information" have you delivered? You've spouted a whole lot of BS, but I haven't seen any facts in there.

Here's some factual information for you: »www.fcc.gov/measuring-broadband-···#Var_ISP

"Crapcast" on average delivers greater than advertised speeds 24x7. This isn't an anecdote based on one system, it's a nationwide average. And as someone who has used Comcast's service on three different systems over the past few years, my experience fully agrees with those charts. My parents on WOW... different story.

pparks1

join:2002-01-01
Westland, MI
reply to clocks11
I was always perfectly satisfied with my 15/1 service. My kids use netflix and YouTube all of the time. I have a 360, PS3 and gaming PC. I use HBOGo. We've always got PC's, tablets, consoles, and phones using the wi-fi and I've once honestly "needed" more speed.

When WOW bumped me up to 15/2 it was nice, as it did afford more ability to do uploads to Skydrive or Dropbox. For all of my other stuff, I noticed no difference whatsoever.

I've considered the 30/3 service....but honestly don't see a need to pay $20 more a month for it.

adam1991

join:2012-06-16
Columbus, OH
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
reply to Jeremy W
said by Jeremy W:

What "factual information" have you delivered? You've spouted a whole lot of BS, but I haven't seen any facts in there.

Here's some factual information for you: »www.fcc.gov/measuring-broadband-···#Var_ISP

"Crapcast" on average delivers greater than advertised speeds 24x7. This isn't an anecdote based on one system, it's a nationwide average. And as someone who has used Comcast's service on three different systems over the past few years, my experience fully agrees with those charts. My parents on WOW... different story.

Except when my cable modem needed reflashed with the latest software, and except when WOW goofed on the upload speed provisioning recently, I've always--ALWAYS--gotten faster than what I'm technically provisioned for, based on speedtest.net's results as well as just some downloads from solid sites.

Anyway, I find it absolutely fascinating that you make the effort to defend Crapcast based on that report and you do so by dismissing anyone who disagrees as having nothing more than "anecdotal" evidence--but it the very same breath you use your own single point anecdote to proclaim that WOW is the devil.

Which is it? Is "anecdotal evidence" to be dismissed, or is it to be embraced?

BTW, my opinion of Crapcast is based not on their ability to deliver broadband service; it's the fact that they are a crappy company to do business with, period.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
reply to ghettocowboy
said by ghettocowboy :

2mb is pointless nowadays ...

Not according to some folks I know, who'd rather pay $19.95, or less, for slow, than twice that for 6.0 mb/s minimum speed.

I was in pain for about seven months, from January, 2012 to August, 2012, when I was compelled by circumstances to rely on others for Internet access; folks with the cheapest, slowest AT&T ADSL service. My friend told me she just lets YouTube buffer then hits replay. I hated that, but I wasn't staying with her long term, so I had to put up with it.

I had never had less than 1.5 mb/s since first getting ADSL (cable wasn't available to us then) in 2001. And was getting used to 4.8 mb/s when struck by a serious illness last year.

I like my current provider. The "Data" (ADSL2+) portion of my bill is just $19.95 a month. Beats the snot out of the Comcast 12.0 mb/s tier for price (I believe it is now $52 a month), and their "Economy" tier (3.0M/768k for $39.95) for both speed and price (4.8M/400k at the old residence and 15M/792k at the new).
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

baess

join:2011-01-28
I wonder why we have to pay so much more for faster speeds?

Shouldn't the fact that technology progressed to the point these faster speeds are available have led to the cost eventually coming down? Isn't that how it typically works with technology? I can buy a TV for half of what it cost five years ago, also a computer.

So why is internet so expensive? Seems like the providers are keeping the prices artificially high. I guess certain industries do that. Others reduce their prices.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
said by baess:

I wonder why we have to pay so much more for faster speeds?

Interesting question. I think ISPs use tiers to control CAPEX. More customers on slower tiers means less spending on plant upgrades.

My ISP, Sonic.net, LLC, does not sell tiers. CEO has this to say:

»Re: I feel like I'm subsidizing other customers
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

slyphoxj

join:2002-06-23
Brook Park, OH
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ObiVoice
·WOW Internet and..
·magicjack.com
·Callcentric
reply to baess
said by baess:

I wonder why we have to pay so much more for faster speeds?

Shouldn't the fact that technology progressed to the point these faster speeds are available have led to the cost eventually coming down? Isn't that how it typically works with technology? I can buy a TV for half of what it cost five years ago, also a computer.

So why is internet so expensive? Seems like the providers are keeping the prices artificially high. I guess certain industries do that. Others reduce their prices.

My worry is that the ISPs will *really* start to squeeze us once the Postal Service is gone (or still around but the service quality has greatly degraded) and we are forced to use the Internet to get and pay bills and get/do other stuff that we can currently use the USPS for. In the last year or so, I've started getting just about all of my credit card, bank and 401(k) statement via the Internet and pay them via credit card or my bank's online billing... I guess I'm part of the problem in hastening the USPS's demise.


The Joker

join:2003-08-01
00001
reply to clocks11
WOW has good service and always behind the competition in prices and speed. I'm stuck with this company because Comcrap sucks.