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dennismurphy
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join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
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Aprilaire humidifier wiring

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A few questions for the HVAC gurus ...

I have a simple, single-zone heating & cooling system.

List of (current) equipment:
Ruud RGPS-10EBRJR Furnace (mfr date of 06/2010.)
Ruud 13AJM48A01 Compressor (mfr date of 04/2010.)
Aprilaire 560 whole-home humidifier
Aprilaire manual humidistat in return duct
24V Transformer (shared with doorbell??? Is this normal?)

I would not necessarily have chosen the Ruud equipment, but it's what I inherited when I bought the house in June, 2011.

Issue #1: Aprilaire constantly runs water - whether solenoid is connected or disconnected. Suspect I need a new solenoid.

Issue #2: Nest announced their 2nd generation t-stat today, and it can control a whole-house humidifier. I'd like to replace my existing t-stat with one.

So, my questions are ... how would I go about 'moving' Humidifier control from the Aprilaire humidistat to the Nest? Is connecting the humidistat to C and W a normal config?

Running new t-stat wiring isn't an issue since this is a ranch and the basement has a drop ceiling .... I was thinking about pulling new wiring anyway to extend the 'c' wire to the t-stat, as well as isolating the climate control system on its own transformer, away from the doorbell (!!) -- why the previous owner would share them, I'll never understand .........


cowboyro
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join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

said by dennismurphy:

24V Transformer (shared with doorbell??? Is this normal?)

No issue.

said by dennismurphy:

Issue #1: Aprilaire constantly runs water - whether solenoid is connected or disconnected. Suspect I need a new solenoid.

If it worked properly before then yes. But double-check that the valve is mounted in the proper direction

said by dennismurphy:

Issue #2: Nest announced their 2nd generation t-stat today, and it can control a whole-house humidifier. I'd like to replace my existing t-stat with one.

If you have the Aprilaire digital humidistat like this one then stick with it... »www.amazon.com/Aprilaire-Humidif···0119LGB6 I am very happy with it, it has an option of periodically starting the fan to sample the humidity and does a great job at maintaining constant humidity in the house. The way I wired it, it will start the fan on low if there is a need for humidity or full blast if the thermostat is calling for heat.


dennismurphy
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Parsippany, NJ
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said by cowboyro:

said by dennismurphy:

24V Transformer (shared with doorbell??? Is this normal?)

No issue.

Thanks... I think I'm going to split them anyway since the wiring dates back to the late 60's when the house was built - and it's a mess.

said by cowboyro:

If it worked properly before then yes. But double-check that the valve is mounted in the proper direction

It used to work; it failed open back in March, so I shut the saddle valve and figured I'd get to it sometime this summer. Well, winter's coming

said by cowboyro:

said by dennismurphy:

Issue #2: Nest announced their 2nd generation t-stat today, and it can control a whole-house humidifier. I'd like to replace my existing t-stat with one.

If you have the Aprilaire digital humidistat like this one then stick with it... »www.amazon.com/Aprilaire-Humidif···0119LGB6 I am very happy with it, it has an option of periodically starting the fan to sample the humidity and does a great job at maintaining constant humidity in the house. The way I wired it, it will start the fan on low if there is a need for humidity or full blast if the thermostat is calling for heat.

No such luck. All I have is the attached; completely manual and I'd rather have the t-stat controlling humidity. It would make more sense to me to measure room humidity vs. plenum... but I'm not an HVAC expert, and so that's why I'm asking you fine folks. I really don't like having to manually adjust the humidistat in the basement as the temperature changes.


cowboyro
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join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

said by dennismurphy:

I really don't like having to manually adjust the humidistat in the basement as the temperature changes.

Why adjust? You set it and forget it. I set it on 45% and I'm done for the winter. Plus the humidistat has option for outside sensor if you want to adjust RH% automatically when the outside temperature drops.


dennismurphy
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said by cowboyro:

Why adjust? You set it and forget it. I set it on 45% and I'm done for the winter. Plus the humidistat has option for outside sensor if you want to adjust RH% automatically when the outside temperature drops.

It says right on the humidistat to reset to a different percentage based on outdoor temps.... the manual control is different than the digital one, I think.


cowboyro
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Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

said by dennismurphy:

It says right on the humidistat to reset to a different percentage based on outdoor temps.... the manual control is different than the digital one, I think.

If you have no condensation issues then there is no real need to. I keep mine at 45% all winter long, I barely see some minor condensation on the bottom of few windows when it drops in the 10F range outside.

ptr727

join:2004-01-01
Redondo Beach, CA
reply to dennismurphy

Hi, jumping in here as this thread came up when I searched for aprilaire and nest.

I'm installing new HVAC, humidifier, etc. in new house, and I'm using Nest v2 thermostats.

I want the Nest to control the Aprilaire 700 humidifier.

I found this:
»support.nest.com/article/Nest-Ce···um-dehum

Is there an easier way to wire the system using just the one * wire from the Nest, possibly using manual control on the Aprilaire?

P.


jrozie

join:2013-01-05
reply to dennismurphy

Your aprilaire 560 would hook up to the nest v2 thermostat in the same way as the aprilaire 600 there is a wire diagram provided by nest for the 600. Any bypass humidifier where the water solenoid pulls it's power separate from the unit would hook up using the aprilaire 600 diagram.

I'm still looking into how to use the nest thermostat with the powered humidifiers like the aprilaire 700. I know how I could engineer it using the 600 wire diagram but I imagine there should be a simpler solution so I'll update here with what I find or with a diagram of my modified 600 schematic.



jack b
Gone Fishing
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join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
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reply to dennismurphy

said by dennismurphy:

24V Transformer (shared with doorbell??? Is this normal?)

No. This is not normal. The furnace has it's own built-in 24 volt control transformer.

Why anyone would tie the furnace to an external doorbell transformer is beyond me...

Unless of course somebody wired something wrong and they fried the internal transformer.
--
~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~


dennismurphy
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reply to jrozie

said by jrozie:

Your aprilaire 560 would hook up to the nest v2 thermostat in the same way as the aprilaire 600 there is a wire diagram provided by nest for the 600. Any bypass humidifier where the water solenoid pulls it's power separate from the unit would hook up using the aprilaire 600 diagram.

I'm still looking into how to use the nest thermostat with the powered humidifiers like the aprilaire 700. I know how I could engineer it using the 600 wire diagram but I imagine there should be a simpler solution so I'll update here with what I find or with a diagram of my modified 600 schematic.

If you could update us with what you find, that would be great! Thank you!


dennismurphy
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reply to jack b

said by jack b:

said by dennismurphy:

24V Transformer (shared with doorbell??? Is this normal?)

No. This is not normal. The furnace has it's own built-in 24 volt control transformer.

Why anyone would tie the furnace to an external doorbell transformer is beyond me...

Unless of course somebody wired something wrong and they fried the internal transformer.

This furnace is about 2 years old. I bought the house a year and a half ago.

I suspect that they did a simple rip-n-replace of the old furnace and never even thought about touching the wiring. It (the wiring) is original to the house.

What I want to do is pick up a spool of 7-conductor tstat cable and rewire the t-stat and humidifier. I already have the proper relay for the Aprilaire, but I want to add a new transformer 'just' for the humidifier (I.e. not shared with the doorbell.)

Part of this will be to move Nest to the other side of its current wall so the auto-away sensor will function properly.


jack b
Gone Fishing
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join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
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Make sure the transformer you get for the humidifier has enough VA for the load. Typical doorbell transformers are very low amperage and might not work correctly.

Something with at least 40VA should be suitable.
--
~Help Find a Cure for Cancer~
~Proud Member of Team Discovery ~


jrozie

join:2013-01-05
reply to dennismurphy

Click for full size
humidifier wire diagram for nest thermostat
There are wireing directions for both bypass and power humidifiers


cowboyro
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Shelton, CT
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reply to jack b

said by jack b:

doorbell transformers are very low amperage and might not work correctly.
Something with at least 40VA should be suitable.

That is way overkill. The units only need a bit of power for the electronics and the valve. In fact the transformer I got with my unit is smaller than a doorbell one.


jrs8084
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join:2002-03-02
Statesville, NC
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reply to dennismurphy

OT: (Don't need humidifiers down in the south) But you will love your nest.

I was kind of scratching my head when I was in the checkout at Lowe's-$250 for a (v2) thermostat!?! Did I really want to go through with this??

Day 1: Hey, this is kinda cool!
Day 2: Despite no comment of change, the "other half" had figured it out and was playing with it.
Day 4: (eery) This thing is figuring me out!
Day 5: This web access is cooler than I imagined!

I never thought a thermostat would bring a smile to ones face-this one will. It looks sharp, and has border collie intelligence.

I actually have been playing with temp settings more than I did with my old programmable. But even if I don't save from energy use, the nest is still worth it for its gorgeous simplicity.



dennismurphy
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Parsippany, NJ
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reply to jrozie

said by jrozie:

There are wireing directions for both bypass and power humidifiers

That's fantastic -- thank you very much!! My cheap-o furnace doesn't have a HUM terminal, so I'm going to have to go with an external 40VA transformer (thanks for the tip Jack!!)

I'll report back on my progress as soon as I'm all wired up. Gotta
Get over this cold first (I don't trust myself; I'm clearly not thinking clearly!)


dennismurphy
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Parsippany, NJ
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reply to jrs8084

said by jrs8084:

OT: (Don't need humidifiers down in the south) But you will love your nest.

I was kind of scratching my head when I was in the checkout at Lowe's-$250 for a (v2) thermostat!?! Did I really want to go through with this??

Day 1: Hey, this is kinda cool!
Day 2: Despite no comment of change, the "other half" had figured it out and was playing with it.
Day 4: (eery) This thing is figuring me out!
Day 5: This web access is cooler than I imagined!

I never thought a thermostat would bring a smile to ones face-this one will. It looks sharp, and has border collie intelligence.

I actually have been playing with temp settings more than I did with my old programmable. But even if I don't save from energy use, the nest is still worth it for its gorgeous simplicity.

Ab-so-friggin-lutely!! I bought and installed the Nest about a month ago, and so far, I love it!! Exactly what you said - the WAF (Wife Adoption Factor) is very high for the Nest. It makes me realize just how poor the industrial and UI design is for most t-stats!


Jack_in_VA
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North, VA
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said by dennismurphy:

the WAF (Wife Adoption Factor) is very high for the Nest. It makes me realize just how poor the industrial and UI design is for most t-stats!

My wife has no problem setting 75 degrees/cool and 73 degrees/heat on our Honeywell/Trane Thermostat. Two simple adjustments.

Other than those two no other adjustments are made.


jrs8084
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Statesville, NC
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Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by dennismurphy:

the WAF (Wife Adoption Factor) is very high for the Nest. It makes me realize just how poor the industrial and UI design is for most t-stats!

My wife has no problem setting 75 degrees/cool and 73 degrees/heat on our Honeywell/Trane Thermostat. Two simple adjustments.

Other than those two no other adjustments are made.

Well, same here, Jack: my spouse didn't have any problems adjusting the temp up and down on the old t'stat. And I also had my house (for years) programmed with a very similar 73/75 as do you. I also had it programmed to change at off hours.

Now, you might have no interest in this, but the beauty in the nest is that you just USE the t'stat. Dial it up up/down if you feel cold or hot. (Now, obviously, you do this within reason) It is "stupid simple" as the kids say to operate.

And what happens is that it ends up (learning) a much higher resolution program than you could ever set. And when it is programmed off behavior, it makes changes you wouldn't think of. For example, I know that in the winter, I want it warm when I return to work. So, I set it to 73 on my old t'stat. But, after behavior programming, I realized I really didn't want it that warm in the early afternoon-70 was fine. It wasn't until the later hours I preferred a warmer temp. And the nest learns when I want to kick it down.

What ended up happening is that I realized (through its simplicity) that a rigid 73/75 is not really what I wanted.

Each to his or her own, but I love the simplicity of the nest. I never gave a crap about my t'stat before, but after the nest. . . it kind if turned things upside down.