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pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Looks like the next generation Nest has been announced. This one does 2 C and 3 heat stages, price is $249.00 on a preorder basis. Also new 3.0 software available.

»store.nest.com
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


doechsli

join:2003-11-26
Louisville, KY

What is the big advantage over a standard programmable stat? I read the article on CNET and still couldn't see the big advantage beyond the wow factor. The stat I have does weekends/weekdays differently so for $250 I just don't get it.......



pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

Please understand: I do not have a horse in this race.

Aside from the wow factor, this device learns when you are home and away and sets the heating/cooling appropriately. For some less technically competent folks, this is a big plus as there is no programming required. ( Thinking back a few years ago to all the VCRs blinking 12:00 endlessly ).

For some folks this is a waste as they are home all the time or have a system where turning it back is a waste of energy due to long recovery times. cost of emergency heat, etc, and other factors.

However if you are in the market for a new 2 stage remote access device, this has a good price point and what looks like good features.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


doechsli

join:2003-11-26
Louisville, KY
reply to pende_tim

Did not mean to imply you had a "dog in this fight".....I am really trying to get educated on this next generation of thermo's.



Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN

It's basically the same market as Apple products. People that want advanced technology but don't want to learn indepth knowledge in order to use advanced technology. I like to tinker and modify things, so something like the nest is not for someone like me.


Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
reply to pende_tim

How does it determine if people are home? I only ask this because I know that it has a motion sensor but a majority of thermostats are located in hallways and cannot see the normally occupied rooms, In fact many homes they are located in the hallway for the bedrooms meaning it might not see motion for a good chunk of a day.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports



cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to pende_tim

From the quick read of the features, it looks like it is more of a "cool" thermostat than a useful one. Seems to be lacking basic features that a regular thermostat has... maybe I'm missing it but it has no option for various CPH rates in heating/cooling/aux, extended fan operation, intelligent recovery... Maybe it has them but they don't make it clear.
I wonder how it decides to cycle on/off, by sensing temperature alone or by using a combination of a cycling rate and temperature.



pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Ken

said by Ken:

It's basically the same market as Apple products. People that want advanced technology but don't want to learn indepth knowledge in order to use advanced technology. I like to tinker and modify things, so something like the nest is not for someone like me.

The guy behind Nest used to be some kind of big wig at Apple so that characterization is correct.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12
Reviews:
·Charter
·voip.ms
·surpasshosting

1 recommendation

reply to pende_tim

That thermostat nearly costs as much as my furnace. I can't believe they are still around. It reminds me of an old saying among con men: "There's a mark born every minute, and one to trim 'em and one to knock 'em".
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 recommendation

said by nunya:

That thermostat nearly costs as much as my furnace. I can't believe they are still around. It reminds me of an old saying among con men: "There's a mark born every minute, and one to trim 'em and one to knock 'em".

$250 for a thermostat. It has to be the best thing since sliced bread.


bobrk
You kids get offa my lawn
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to Kearnstd

said by Kearnstd:

How does it determine if people are home? I only ask this because I know that it has a motion sensor but a majority of thermostats are located in hallways and cannot see the normally occupied rooms, In fact many homes they are located in the hallway for the bedrooms meaning it might not see motion for a good chunk of a day.

It essentially has a motion detector, but you can also override it.

The technique is that you teach it over some time and it memorizes and analyzes your patterns.

Also, you can program it remotely over the web.


voiplover
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Portsmouth, NH

1 recommendation

Sorry. This just reminds me of when occupancy sensors were made to solve the energy crisis. Some genius put on in the bathroom to a 2 million dollar home to eliminate the need of touching a possibly contaminated light switch.
Of course it was the owner's wife that found the major flaw when the lights when out prior to her knowing how to use the TP dispenser.


markf

join:2008-01-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·ELECTRONICBOX
·Execulink Telecom
reply to pende_tim

I've looked into it, but it seems like an expensive, impractical toy (sounds kinda like Apple products...but I digress).

The motion sensor aspect would be find and dandy if you had the thermostat in a high traffic location, but just thinking about where mine is, I am quite sure it would think I am gone for large periods of time when I am actually at home.

There are other remote programmable thermostats for $100+ cheaper from actual HVAC companies (Honeywell for example). I would pass on this one myself based on the information I have.



Daarken
Rara Avises
Premium
join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA
kudos:3

I have a nest, it was given to me as a gift.
As far as I am concerned, it looks great, and it works as advertises.
It is located in a high traffic area, so if only a single person is home and they are either resting or occupied, it will adjust the temperature a little higher.
Additionally since it was installed, each of my monthly bills has been lower in usage then the previous years corresponding month.
Seeing as we just had one of the hottest summers in history, I'm satisfied.
Besides it really does look good.
My software will be updated by tonight as per the email I got from nest.
--
Getting it Done.



cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to Ken

said by Ken:

It's basically the same market as Apple products. People that want advanced technology but don't want to learn indepth knowledge in order to use advanced technology.

You're right about the same market as Apple products, but not for the reason you state. It's in the same market as Apple products because some people have an overwhelming desire to pay a premium for shiny thing that isn't functionally better than cheaper alternatives, but just because it's shiny. A coworker just yesterday saw the new Nest and said he would be willing to pay double for it just because it looks so good.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

said by cdru:

You're right about the same market as Apple products, but not for the reason you state. It's in the same market as Apple products because some people have an overwhelming desire to pay a premium for shiny thing that isn't functionally better than cheaper alternatives, but just because it's shiny. A coworker just yesterday saw the new Nest and said he would be willing to pay double for it just because it looks so good.

What premium is that? Apple laptops and desktops cost roughly the same as a similarly spec'ed Wintel machine. And they will most likely last longer and require less maintenance and upkeep than a comparable Windows machine. Wifey just got rid of her original White Macbook from 2006. Only reason was the battery was shot, it was running a little slow, and the HD was full. Not wanting to sink money into upgrades for a dead end machine we got her a new one.

iPhone still has it all over Android. Not necessarily spec sheet wars but in usability. I don't have to think about my iPhone, it just works. My Droid X was a mess and really not a good phone.

So I'm still trying to figure out the premium for functionality. If it were all about functionality we'd all be driving $11000 Nissan Versas. After all anything else is paying a premium for a shiny thing that isn't functionally better than cheaper alternatives.


cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
reply to pende_tim

Although it is a pricey appliance, it has to be good for a specific niche.

-Location of the thermostat
(mine is near hall to kitchen-living room...completely bypassed most of time)
-Type of HVAC
(I've a newer Carrier, and noticed savings in bills after setting it to 76F in summer and 65F for winter...without too much spike to ramp up when occupied)
-Need to save energy vs ROI on the nest
(a $90 fully programmable can save you $150 if you don't need ease of use, remote setup-control...)

For me, not worth re-wire, painting area the reduced footprint uncovers, and ... well... it is cool!
--
Splat



bobrk
You kids get offa my lawn
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to cdru

said by cdru:

said by Ken:

It's basically the same market as Apple products. People that want advanced technology but don't want to learn indepth knowledge in order to use advanced technology.

You're right about the same market as Apple products, but not for the reason you state. It's in the same market as Apple products because some people have an overwhelming desire to pay a premium for shiny thing that isn't functionally better than cheaper alternatives, but just because it's shiny. A coworker just yesterday saw the new Nest and said he would be willing to pay double for it just because it looks so good.

Oh my. I wish my technically inclined brethren would celebrate the application of technology to make things easier.

I'm sure that you guys all adjust your spark advance and retardation manually while you drive your vehicles, of course monitoring your fuel pressure for optimum performance. Not to mention those weekly lube jobs and brake adjustments.

I'm positive that you toast all your bread manually, not daring to trust something as silly as a bimetallic strip to make your toast perfectly brown.

I would be flabbergasted to hear that wash all your dishes and clothes with a machine instead of carefully by hand, examining each item carefully for any signs of contamination and wear. You wouldn't want to trust something as precious as clothes and dishes to the precarious whims of timers and microprocessors.


Anonuser

join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI
reply to pende_tim

I have the original Nest. I do like it.

I am a very VERY mechanical person (I build my own cars, gas & electric just as example). Installation was 5 minutes.
Connected to WI-FI.

I like the ability to control the thermostat from my iPhone.

It tells me temp and humidity right on my phone, as well as able to change the schedule on my phone.

I also like it as a "remove" for my furnace/ac. My home is split level, thermostat is upstairs by the kitchen in the hallway, and my bedroom is downstairs. I like the ability to control the thermostat without even needing to get out of bed. just reach over, tap the iphone screen, and heat shuts off, or turns on, or circulating fan only, or ac etc....

And lastly, my 2 yr old and 4 year old love it. It has a proximity sensor to turn the NEST screen on when you walk past. My kids arn't tall enough to touch the thermostat, but it keeps them busy. They try sneeking up on it, seeing how close they can get before it turns on etc...
--
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Dodge
Premium
join:2002-11-27

1 recommendation

reply to itguy05

said by itguy05:

What premium is that? Apple laptops and desktops cost roughly the same as a similarly spec'ed Wintel machine.

Not even close. And calling it Wintel is kind of stupid at this stage considering Macs are Intel based now, does that make the Mintels?
said by itguy05:

And they will most likely last longer and require less maintenance and upkeep than a comparable Windows machine.

This stopped being true since Win XP came out.

said by itguy05:

Wifey just got rid of her original White Macbook from 2006. Only reason was the battery was shot, it was running a little slow, and the HD was full. Not wanting to sink money into upgrades for a dead end machine we got her a new one.

Dell E1705 which was manufacturered somewhere around the time as the macbook you are describing still works great, battery is shot and one usb port doesn't work because soda was spilled on it, but no other issues.

At the same time I have a white macbook that the camera doesn't work, cd drive is broken, 2 bulging batteries thrown out and periodically it screams about some system board error, oh and the plastic casing is cracked because of the bulging battery

said by itguy05:

iPhone still has it all over Android. Not necessarily spec sheet wars but in usability. I don't have to think about my iPhone, it just works. My Droid X was a mess and really not a good phone.

OG Droid still works great and I use it for dev purposes, Droid Razr and Droid Razr Maxx both work without any issues. Razr fell on the floor about a hundred times since we had it (no case, no screen protector) and 0 damage. At the same time co-worker's iPhone 4S fell last week on a tiled floor in the office kitchen area - screen shattered, the phone still kind of worked, but the image was barely visible from the cracks and the touchscreen functionality was not working anymore. While setting up another co-workers iPhone 5 with exchange the phone froze twice.

said by itguy05:

So I'm still trying to figure out the premium for functionality. If it were all about functionality we'd all be driving $11000 Nissan Versas. After all anything else is paying a premium for a shiny thing that isn't functionally better than cheaper alternatives.

Do you really need a list of features that more expensive cars have that the Versa doesn't that are functionally different and not just a shiny toy things?

Personally I don't care if people buy iPhone 5 or SGS III, Macbook or a Asus, Nest thermostat or Honeywell, Bentley or a Versa - it's your money do with it whatever you wish. What I can't stand (and the only reason why I responded to every point in your post), is when the discussion starts with a thermostat in a HOME IMPROVEMENT forum, and all of a sudden it's the "Wintel sucks and android with it" post. Was that really necessary?


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
reply to Anonuser

I am also a mechanical person but I don't have a need to change my thermostat from the bed.

72 degrees winter
75 degrees summer

Works fine for me



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
reply to Dodge

Dodge: +1



mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3
reply to pende_tim

I can already see the next big hacking craze gone wild.

War-driving to find open Wi-Fi Nests and then programming them to go to full-blast heat in the summertime...



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 recommendation

said by mattmag:

I can already see the next big hacking craze gone wild.

War-driving to find open Wi-Fi Nests and then programming them to go to full-blast heat in the summertime...


I think it's a UN conspiracy. Instead of the device being outside in the "smart meter" they can get it inside hidden in a thermostat where it will be way more effective in gathering data on the inhabitants.

Just think web connected 24/7.


bobrk
You kids get offa my lawn
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to Dodge

said by Dodge:

said by itguy05:

What premium is that? Apple laptops and desktops cost roughly the same as a similarly spec'ed Wintel machine.

Not even close. And calling it Wintel is kind of stupid at this stage considering Macs are Intel based now, does that make the Mintels?

MacTels.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

1 edit
reply to Dodge

said by Dodge:

Not even close. And calling it Wintel is kind of stupid at this stage considering Macs are Intel based now, does that make the Mintels?

Yes, close. Hint - Look at Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc's BUSINESS CLASS lines, not the consumer stuff.

And It's a label for a Windows/Intel machine. Since Linux can also run on Intel and now that Win 8 is due out for ARM there needs to be a distinction.

quote:
This stopped being true since Win XP came out.
Not true. XP is bad from a security, performance, and reliability standpoint.

quote:
Do you really need a list of features that more expensive cars have that the Versa doesn't that are functionally different and not just a shiny toy things?
Like what? IIRC that Versa has 4 wheels, an engine, loads of airbags, Cd player, A/C, ABS, gets decent gas mileage and will get you and 3 friends from point A to B. So why buy anything but the cheapest car you can get?

quote:
What I can't stand (and the only reason why I responded to every point in your post), is when the discussion starts with a thermostat in a HOME IMPROVEMENT forum, and all of a sudden it's the "Wintel sucks and android with it" post. Was that really necessary?
I didn't start with the "Apple People" bashing. I too could care less. It is interesting that technology brings out these sort of emotions when it's one of the few things people are so proud of how cheap they can be. I'd bet none of the people bashing the Nest, Apple, or Bentley crowds own the Nissan Versa which is the cheapest car in America and serves the same purpose and has many of the same features as whatever much more expensive car does.

Back to the topic, I'm not going to reply any more as to not further derail this conversation.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1

A cheap programmable thermostat like a Honeywell will do exactly what is needed so why buy anything but the cheapest thermostat you can get?


itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

1 recommendation

said by Jack_in_VA:

A cheap programmable thermostat like a Honeywell will do exactly what is needed so why buy anything but the cheapest thermostat you can get?

Same reason not everyone drives the cheapest car in America. They want different things.


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to Anonuser

said by Anonuser:

I like the ability to control the thermostat without even needing to get out of bed. just reach over, tap the iphone screen, and heat shuts off, or turns on, or circulating fan only, or ac etc....

I like the ability to control mine without doing anything. It turns off at 8AM during the week and goes on slight setback at 9AM during weekend. When I come home at 6PM it's nice and warm. No tapping required.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by nunya:

That thermostat nearly costs as much as my furnace. I can't believe they are still around. It reminds me of an old saying among con men: "There's a mark born every minute, and one to trim 'em and one to knock 'em".

$250 for a thermostat. It has to be the best thing since sliced bread.

Well, compared to leaving your thermostat at 75 all year long I'm sure it would pay for itself.