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Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
reply to Anonuser

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

I am also a mechanical person but I don't have a need to change my thermostat from the bed.

72 degrees winter
75 degrees summer

Works fine for me



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
reply to Dodge

Dodge: +1



mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3
reply to pende_tim

I can already see the next big hacking craze gone wild.

War-driving to find open Wi-Fi Nests and then programming them to go to full-blast heat in the summertime...



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 recommendation

said by mattmag:

I can already see the next big hacking craze gone wild.

War-driving to find open Wi-Fi Nests and then programming them to go to full-blast heat in the summertime...


I think it's a UN conspiracy. Instead of the device being outside in the "smart meter" they can get it inside hidden in a thermostat where it will be way more effective in gathering data on the inhabitants.

Just think web connected 24/7.


bobrk
You kids get offa my lawn
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to Dodge

said by Dodge:

said by itguy05:

What premium is that? Apple laptops and desktops cost roughly the same as a similarly spec'ed Wintel machine.

Not even close. And calling it Wintel is kind of stupid at this stage considering Macs are Intel based now, does that make the Mintels?

MacTels.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

1 edit
reply to Dodge

said by Dodge:

Not even close. And calling it Wintel is kind of stupid at this stage considering Macs are Intel based now, does that make the Mintels?

Yes, close. Hint - Look at Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc's BUSINESS CLASS lines, not the consumer stuff.

And It's a label for a Windows/Intel machine. Since Linux can also run on Intel and now that Win 8 is due out for ARM there needs to be a distinction.

quote:
This stopped being true since Win XP came out.
Not true. XP is bad from a security, performance, and reliability standpoint.

quote:
Do you really need a list of features that more expensive cars have that the Versa doesn't that are functionally different and not just a shiny toy things?
Like what? IIRC that Versa has 4 wheels, an engine, loads of airbags, Cd player, A/C, ABS, gets decent gas mileage and will get you and 3 friends from point A to B. So why buy anything but the cheapest car you can get?

quote:
What I can't stand (and the only reason why I responded to every point in your post), is when the discussion starts with a thermostat in a HOME IMPROVEMENT forum, and all of a sudden it's the "Wintel sucks and android with it" post. Was that really necessary?
I didn't start with the "Apple People" bashing. I too could care less. It is interesting that technology brings out these sort of emotions when it's one of the few things people are so proud of how cheap they can be. I'd bet none of the people bashing the Nest, Apple, or Bentley crowds own the Nissan Versa which is the cheapest car in America and serves the same purpose and has many of the same features as whatever much more expensive car does.

Back to the topic, I'm not going to reply any more as to not further derail this conversation.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1

A cheap programmable thermostat like a Honeywell will do exactly what is needed so why buy anything but the cheapest thermostat you can get?


itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

1 recommendation

said by Jack_in_VA:

A cheap programmable thermostat like a Honeywell will do exactly what is needed so why buy anything but the cheapest thermostat you can get?

Same reason not everyone drives the cheapest car in America. They want different things.


cowboyro
Premium
join:2000-10-11
Shelton, CT
reply to Anonuser

said by Anonuser:

I like the ability to control the thermostat without even needing to get out of bed. just reach over, tap the iphone screen, and heat shuts off, or turns on, or circulating fan only, or ac etc....

I like the ability to control mine without doing anything. It turns off at 8AM during the week and goes on slight setback at 9AM during weekend. When I come home at 6PM it's nice and warm. No tapping required.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by nunya:

That thermostat nearly costs as much as my furnace. I can't believe they are still around. It reminds me of an old saying among con men: "There's a mark born every minute, and one to trim 'em and one to knock 'em".

$250 for a thermostat. It has to be the best thing since sliced bread.

Well, compared to leaving your thermostat at 75 all year long I'm sure it would pay for itself.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

Hey I have a 18 SEER Heat Pump. My last bill was for 800 kWh. You can burn up in your mega homes but I'm going to be cool and comfortable in mine. It's my choice and really none of your business.

Right now 82 outside 75 inside.


robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

Seems like that should work both ways. Some users believe there is value in the Nest. Yet instead of discussing the technical merits of the Nest you seem to be trying to make the case that what works best for you is what is best for all. From what you have posted, you have no need for any kind of programmable thermostat as you only have two settings in your house, summer and winter. Nothing wrong with that but perhaps others prefer to live differently.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by robbin:

Seems like that should work both ways. Some users believe there is value in the Nest. Yet instead of discussing the technical merits of the Nest you seem to be trying to make the case that what works best for you is what is best for all. From what you have posted, you have no need for any kind of programmable thermostat as you only have two settings in your house, summer and winter. Nothing wrong with that but perhaps others prefer to live differently.

I tend to agree robbin but I'm just answering the posts touting the "benefits" of this new high dollar electronic toy (IMO and my word). You have to acknowledge that part of the reason for many of the posts is touting the wow factor. I still can't understand someone in bed using changing the thermostat as a normal action. The average dude is not going to be doing this.(again IMO) (I am allowed an opinion I presume)

As for value? I don't think it does that much more or any better than many other higher end products on the market that sell for much less. (again my opinion)

But point taken. I'll just read on the sideline and when you think I can post again on this topic let me know.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

said by Jack_in_VA:

I still can't understand someone in bed using changing the thermostat as a normal action. The average dude is not going to be doing this.

I can definitely think of times when it would be nice to do so. I still work up a sweat in bed on regular occasions!


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by robbin:

said by Jack_in_VA:

I still can't understand someone in bed using changing the thermostat as a normal action. The average dude is not going to be doing this.

I can definitely think of times when it would be nice to do so. I still work up a sweat in bed on regular occasions!

So did my wife when she was going through the "change".

Dodge
Premium
join:2002-11-27
reply to itguy05

said by itguy05:

Yes, close. Hint - Look at Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc's BUSINESS CLASS lines, not the consumer stuff.

Macs are not business machines. Keeping them integrated in an office environment is a GIANT pain in the ass, so comparing them to business machines is wrong. Even Apple doesn't want to deal with the business side officially hence the discontinued OSX servers.

said by itguy05:

Not true. XP is bad from a security, performance, and reliability standpoint.

IS bad, keyword IS, not was when it came out. OSX 10.4 or whatever the version was at the time was no picnick.

said by itguy05:

Like what? IIRC that Versa has 4 wheels, an engine, loads of airbags, Cd player, A/C, ABS, gets decent gas mileage and will get you and 3 friends from point A to B. So why buy anything but the cheapest car you can get?

Seriously? Like try putting a child seat into a Versa, it's doable, but you are going to hate your life afterwards and while you are at it try to figure out where to shove the stroller, because it will never fit into the so called trunk. Like try keeping kids entertained with no enterntainment system when you are going more than 5 miles somewhere. Like dual zone climate control (see how back on topic we are here) because you are dying of heat while other people in the car are just fine. Leather seats are not a luxury for some people, especially for someone who's ever tried getting food stains out of the upholstery or smoke. I can give you more examples if necessary.

said by itguy05:

I didn't start with the "Apple People" bashing. ....

Yeah you did.

said by itguy05:

Back to the topic, I'm not going to reply any more as to not further derail this conversation.

I love this statement, I belive it translates into "I spewed some random garbage into an internet forum, but since I actually got called out on it, I don't want to play anymore".


bobrk
You kids get offa my lawn
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

A cheap programmable thermostat like a Honeywell will do exactly what is needed so why buy anything but the cheapest thermostat you can get?

And yet most people don't bother to program their thermostats because it's too hard. That's what this solves.

Obviously when I say "most people," I don't mean anyone in this room.


djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO

1 edit
reply to Jack_in_VA

I still can't understand someone in bed using changing the thermostat as a normal action. The average dude is not going to be doing this.(again IMO)

I have a two story house. The thermostat is down stairs. I also have dogs that sleep in the bed that can make it a pain in the ass to get back to sleep should I get out of the bed.

With a two story house, it's sometimes more complicated than just setting the thermostat to X degrees and enjoying a consistent temperature. If the cycle stops for a long time, it may heat up upstairs and remain cool downstairs.

I leave an old iPhone sitting next to the bed. It's great to be able to control the thermostat if I wake up and feel hot (or turn the heat on and wait under the warm covers, if it's a cold morning). I can also control the ceiling fan and lights from the same controller. My next project is motorized curtains.

It's not all that far fetched or crazy. The Aria hotel in Vegas has this same sort of home automation stuff in their hotel rooms.

--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.

Dodge
Premium
join:2002-11-27
reply to bobrk

said by bobrk:

said by Jack_in_VA:

A cheap programmable thermostat like a Honeywell will do exactly what is needed so why buy anything but the cheapest thermostat you can get?

And yet most people don't bother to program their thermostats because it's too hard. That's what this solves.

Obviously when I say "most people," I don't mean anyone in this room.

Programmable thermostats are scary We have a honywell touchscreen thermostat in our office that I had to put a lockbox around because people couldn't figure out how to use it properly. Now we have a list of authorized thermostat users

itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
reply to Dodge

quote:
Macs are not business machines. Keeping them integrated in an office environment is a GIANT pain in the ass, so comparing them to business machines is wrong. Even Apple doesn't want to deal with the business side officially hence the discontinued OSX servers.

You do realize there is an OSX Server OS, just not the server hardware. And considering few bought them it made sense to discontinue them.

Maybe for a Windows admin who is used to only MS junk it's hard to integrate Macs but for those of us who know it's about the same as integrating Linux, AIX, or any other UNIX into AD. And another hint, AD is loosely based on LDAP which means you can connect it relatively easily.

When I was a Windows admin, most could not think outside the box or do much with non Microsoft stuff. Shame really as there's a whole better world outside besides Microsoft's software.

quote:
IS bad, keyword IS, not was when it came out. OSX 10.4 or whatever the version was at the time was no picnick.
Having used OSX from 10.2 to today XP is what drove me to OSX. It was better.

quote:
Seriously? Like try putting a child seat into a Versa, it's doable, but you are going to hate your life afterwards and while you are at it try to figure out where to shove the stroller, because it will never fit into the so called trunk. Like try keeping kids entertained with no enterntainment system when you are going more than 5 miles somewhere. Like dual zone climate control (see how back on topic we are here) because you are dying of heat while other people in the car are just fine. Leather seats are not a luxury for some people, especially for someone who's ever tried getting food stains out of the upholstery or smoke. I can give you more examples if necessary.
Seriously? My parents did it in some of the midsize sedans of the 80's just fine. And for fun, my Mom did it in her Mustang 2. I routinely took 7 hour trips with no entertainment center but a book and my imagination in the back of said 80's sedan. (And with Dad puffing away in the front but that's another topic.) Then again my parents were parents and didn't just plop me in front of a TV or whatever and let them be my parents.

None of those things are necessary or needed. About the only time you'd need something bigger is more than 2 kids.

quote:
Yeah you did.
No, actually it was cdru with this:
quote:
You're right about the same market as Apple products, but not for the reason you state. It's in the same market as Apple products because some people have an overwhelming desire to pay a premium for shiny thing that isn't functionally better than cheaper alternatives, but just because it's shiny. A coworker just yesterday saw the new Nest and said he would be willing to pay double for it just because it looks so good.
quote:
I love this statement, I belive it translates into "I spewed some random garbage into an internet forum, but since I actually got called out on it, I don't want to play anymore".

Nope, feel free to PM me and we'll start a topic in General info, computers, cars, whatever. Really don't want to derail this topic any more.


pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to pende_tim

I see there are a few who think the Nest is over priced and just another pretty face on the wall.

What would you suggest for a remotely accessed 2 stage cool, 3 stage heat pump compatible unit?

All I have seen is the RadioThermostat CT80 model, for $250, A Honeywell CTK03 + RedLINK (for $450 or so)

I could be in the market for one of these units to connect with a Goodman system ( 2 stage + 2 stage propane furnace)
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.



cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

said by pende_tim:

I see there are a few who think the Nest is over priced and just another pretty face on the wall.
...

I will agree that it is priced more than a non-remote controlled, multi-day programmable (Honeywell, ...) but the features make it desirable if needed. (remote control, learning, internet/wifi access...).

Many times we've left the house for vacation and realized, "we didn't turn down the heat ... or have it warm/cool for when we get home ". Then there is the occasional sick day or cold winter day that one 'stays in'. Grab the iphone or ipad and adjust without getting out of bed (cold floors, affectionate mate...).

--
Splat

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
reply to pende_tim

I like the gadgetness of it, but I don't like how "obvious" it is. To me a thermostat should be barely seen, not a talking point. The less obtrusive, the better, so this one wouldn't fit my needs.



Gord

@teksavvy.com
reply to pende_tim

In the last Home Depot flyer here in Canada there is a new Honeywell wifi internet connected unit for $160. I saw it last night and it looks like any other Honeywell unit but has the wifi signal indicator bars on the screen. I havent seen it elsewhere.

It would do everything the Nest would do for me, as my thermostat is somewhere where someone might walk by it to trigger its motion sensor once a week.

I looked everywhere on the internet and nest sure tries to make the web interface and any actual screen shots or description of what the software will do a secret. I guess they just want to let their built in program rule the day. Just like apple.


Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms

1 edit
reply to pende_tim

Very cool. Sounds like it would do well with our heating/cooling schedule.
We like 72 when we lounging around at home and 68 for sleeping.
Things that I did not see are HRV control and remote sensors (that are more economical than a nest in every zone).
Having an open loop geothermal unit, long run times overwhelming the well are a concern. I think the nest will be able to deal with this with a bit of coaching. It clearly can avoid using the auxiliary electric which we affectionately call the $pender.
What is unclear is how it would handle our off grid primary heat source, the zero clearance fireplace. It causes heat imbalances that we manually control using the furnace fan to distribute this heat as required. The living room will get overtemperature, but that's fine as long as the bedrooms are not. This where a couple remote sensors would be nice. I'm looking for it to run the fan, but don't over heat the bedroom. One hot restless sleep and SWMBO would open windows and make me remove the nest in favor of the old Honeywell.
I just might have to put a nest on my Christmass list.


garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

It sounds like you could benefit from a more sophisticated controller than a smart thermostat...



cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
reply to Gord

Here in SouthEastern PA, HomeDepot has the Honeywell RTH8580WF for $150.

»yourhome.honeywell.com/home/Prod···80WF.htm
--
Splat



pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Gord

I saw the new(?) »www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R···X-03A9gA WiFi Honeywell yesterday in Home Depot also. The box was very vague but it does not seem to do a 2 stage heat pump with aux heat.

The Honeywell specs seem similar to the RadioThermostat 3M50 unit which I have on several single stage systems.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


mudtoe

join:2005-10-09
Cincinnati, OH
reply to pende_tim

If you have a Nest in a vacation home you had better login to the web page and check out the temperature. After the software update yesterday the Nest in my Florida vacation home has malfunctioned. For some reason it's no longer turning on the blower inside the house, but is just turning on the A/C compressor.

Fortunately I have a couple of other temperature and humidity sensors in the place that are hooked up to the internet and they started sending me emails early yesterday evening saying that the temperature in the house had exceeded the warning threshold. When I logged into the Nest web site it showed that the A/C was on, but that the temperature was 4 degrees higher than the set point. After about 15 minutes the Nest would show the word "Delayed" for about 15 minutes and then the cycle would repeat.

I called Nest late last night, and to their credit they had some level 2 people still there, I guess because of the software update. They told me that they have had a couple reports like mine and that the likely cause was that after the software upgrade the Nest likely thinks that it's a boiler type system without a blower. In the mean time I turned the system off in order to not burn out the compressor.

This morning I called my neighbor and asked him to go over to the house, and then I turned the system back on and he confirmed that the compressor was running outside but that the blower inside was not.

I'm awaiting a call back from Nest to see how to resolve this. Last night they said that the Nest probably needed reconfiguring, but as I'm a thousand miles away I can't do that, and the neighbor whom I sent over is in his 70s and I'm afraid that he would be more likely to cause more problems than he would solve if they tried to have him walk through a full reconfiguration. I'm waiting on a call back from Nest today to see what they intend. I asked that they send a tech out to the house to fix it; if they won't then I'm going to have to pay someone versed in Nest for a service call.

This incident brings up some issues with the Nest and the software update procedure. They either have to have a way to remotely back out an update (they said they couldn't and from what the guy told me last night the first time the new software runs it makes some configuration updates and assumptions which is likely the genesis of this problem), or better yet give the customer a way to opt out of automatic software updates and allow them to initiate the update manually when they are present to monitor the results. This is critical IMHO for people who have Nests in unattended locations such as vacation homes.

I don't know how many people have this problem, although it could be quite a number who just don't know yet that it's happened to them. I only found out about it so quickly because I had other sensors in the house that alerted me to the problem within a couple of hours of the software update. The only way people who don't have something like that will know if their off site Nests have a problem is if they login to the web page and note the temperature discrepancy between what the Nest is set at versus the actual temperature. Also, if their A/C compressor doesn't have a safety system to shut it down after a few minutes if the blower doesn't come on, it could be damaged. At the very least if their vacation home is in Florida, or somewhere else where it's still hot, they are in for a really nasty electric bill if the compressor has been running non-stop for days on end.

I'll post an update once I hear back from Nest on their plan of action.


Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to pende_tim

$229 at Amazon ca.
»www.amazon.ca/Nest-T100577-Learn···06ML9J4O

The Honeywell looks very functional but at 10" square, it breaks my "Jupiter 2" rule regarding the prominence of technology. I prefer to not have consoles and command centers on display. After all I'm just trying to enjoy my home, I'm not navigating through space.
At under 3.5" the Nest even beats out the classic Honeywell button on the wall that HD is selling.