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pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to pende_tim

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

I see there are a few who think the Nest is over priced and just another pretty face on the wall.

What would you suggest for a remotely accessed 2 stage cool, 3 stage heat pump compatible unit?

All I have seen is the RadioThermostat CT80 model, for $250, A Honeywell CTK03 + RedLINK (for $450 or so)

I could be in the market for one of these units to connect with a Goodman system ( 2 stage + 2 stage propane furnace)
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.



cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

said by pende_tim:

I see there are a few who think the Nest is over priced and just another pretty face on the wall.
...

I will agree that it is priced more than a non-remote controlled, multi-day programmable (Honeywell, ...) but the features make it desirable if needed. (remote control, learning, internet/wifi access...).

Many times we've left the house for vacation and realized, "we didn't turn down the heat ... or have it warm/cool for when we get home ". Then there is the occasional sick day or cold winter day that one 'stays in'. Grab the iphone or ipad and adjust without getting out of bed (cold floors, affectionate mate...).

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Splat

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
reply to pende_tim

I like the gadgetness of it, but I don't like how "obvious" it is. To me a thermostat should be barely seen, not a talking point. The less obtrusive, the better, so this one wouldn't fit my needs.



Gord

@teksavvy.com
reply to pende_tim

In the last Home Depot flyer here in Canada there is a new Honeywell wifi internet connected unit for $160. I saw it last night and it looks like any other Honeywell unit but has the wifi signal indicator bars on the screen. I havent seen it elsewhere.

It would do everything the Nest would do for me, as my thermostat is somewhere where someone might walk by it to trigger its motion sensor once a week.

I looked everywhere on the internet and nest sure tries to make the web interface and any actual screen shots or description of what the software will do a secret. I guess they just want to let their built in program rule the day. Just like apple.


Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·TekSavvy DSL

1 edit
reply to pende_tim

Very cool. Sounds like it would do well with our heating/cooling schedule.
We like 72 when we lounging around at home and 68 for sleeping.
Things that I did not see are HRV control and remote sensors (that are more economical than a nest in every zone).
Having an open loop geothermal unit, long run times overwhelming the well are a concern. I think the nest will be able to deal with this with a bit of coaching. It clearly can avoid using the auxiliary electric which we affectionately call the $pender.
What is unclear is how it would handle our off grid primary heat source, the zero clearance fireplace. It causes heat imbalances that we manually control using the furnace fan to distribute this heat as required. The living room will get overtemperature, but that's fine as long as the bedrooms are not. This where a couple remote sensors would be nice. I'm looking for it to run the fan, but don't over heat the bedroom. One hot restless sleep and SWMBO would open windows and make me remove the nest in favor of the old Honeywell.
I just might have to put a nest on my Christmass list.


garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

It sounds like you could benefit from a more sophisticated controller than a smart thermostat...



cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
reply to Gord

Here in SouthEastern PA, HomeDepot has the Honeywell RTH8580WF for $150.

»yourhome.honeywell.com/home/Prod···80WF.htm
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Splat



pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Gord

I saw the new(?) »www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R···X-03A9gA WiFi Honeywell yesterday in Home Depot also. The box was very vague but it does not seem to do a 2 stage heat pump with aux heat.

The Honeywell specs seem similar to the RadioThermostat 3M50 unit which I have on several single stage systems.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.


mudtoe

join:2005-10-09
Cincinnati, OH
reply to pende_tim

If you have a Nest in a vacation home you had better login to the web page and check out the temperature. After the software update yesterday the Nest in my Florida vacation home has malfunctioned. For some reason it's no longer turning on the blower inside the house, but is just turning on the A/C compressor.

Fortunately I have a couple of other temperature and humidity sensors in the place that are hooked up to the internet and they started sending me emails early yesterday evening saying that the temperature in the house had exceeded the warning threshold. When I logged into the Nest web site it showed that the A/C was on, but that the temperature was 4 degrees higher than the set point. After about 15 minutes the Nest would show the word "Delayed" for about 15 minutes and then the cycle would repeat.

I called Nest late last night, and to their credit they had some level 2 people still there, I guess because of the software update. They told me that they have had a couple reports like mine and that the likely cause was that after the software upgrade the Nest likely thinks that it's a boiler type system without a blower. In the mean time I turned the system off in order to not burn out the compressor.

This morning I called my neighbor and asked him to go over to the house, and then I turned the system back on and he confirmed that the compressor was running outside but that the blower inside was not.

I'm awaiting a call back from Nest to see how to resolve this. Last night they said that the Nest probably needed reconfiguring, but as I'm a thousand miles away I can't do that, and the neighbor whom I sent over is in his 70s and I'm afraid that he would be more likely to cause more problems than he would solve if they tried to have him walk through a full reconfiguration. I'm waiting on a call back from Nest today to see what they intend. I asked that they send a tech out to the house to fix it; if they won't then I'm going to have to pay someone versed in Nest for a service call.

This incident brings up some issues with the Nest and the software update procedure. They either have to have a way to remotely back out an update (they said they couldn't and from what the guy told me last night the first time the new software runs it makes some configuration updates and assumptions which is likely the genesis of this problem), or better yet give the customer a way to opt out of automatic software updates and allow them to initiate the update manually when they are present to monitor the results. This is critical IMHO for people who have Nests in unattended locations such as vacation homes.

I don't know how many people have this problem, although it could be quite a number who just don't know yet that it's happened to them. I only found out about it so quickly because I had other sensors in the house that alerted me to the problem within a couple of hours of the software update. The only way people who don't have something like that will know if their off site Nests have a problem is if they login to the web page and note the temperature discrepancy between what the Nest is set at versus the actual temperature. Also, if their A/C compressor doesn't have a safety system to shut it down after a few minutes if the blower doesn't come on, it could be damaged. At the very least if their vacation home is in Florida, or somewhere else where it's still hot, they are in for a really nasty electric bill if the compressor has been running non-stop for days on end.

I'll post an update once I hear back from Nest on their plan of action.


Tig

join:2006-06-29
Carrying Place, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to pende_tim

$229 at Amazon ca.
»www.amazon.ca/Nest-T100577-Learn···06ML9J4O

The Honeywell looks very functional but at 10" square, it breaks my "Jupiter 2" rule regarding the prominence of technology. I prefer to not have consoles and command centers on display. After all I'm just trying to enjoy my home, I'm not navigating through space.
At under 3.5" the Nest even beats out the classic Honeywell button on the wall that HD is selling.


garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
·callwithus
reply to pende_tim

said by pende_tim:

The box was very vague but it does not seem to do a 2 stage heat pump with aux heat.

It looks like it does, according to the manual »www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfIma···21c2.pdf


mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
kudos:3
reply to mudtoe

said by mudtoe:

If you have a Nest in a vacation home you had better login to the web page and check out the temperature. After the software update yesterday the Nest in my Florida vacation home has malfunctioned. For some reason it's no longer turning on the blower inside the house, but is just turning on the A/C compressor.

How can it accomplish that? The stat should just initiate a call for cooling, in which case the blower control is performed by the A/C system, not the thermostat. I don't think you have separate circuits just from the outside condenser, do you? Or I may be missing something since it's a warm-climate situation and I'm used to a combined furnace/AC.


PSWired

join:2006-03-26
Annapolis, MD

Almost all residential thermostats have control over the refrigeration and air circulation functions separately. That's how the "fan on/auto" function works.


mudtoe

join:2005-10-09
Cincinnati, OH
reply to mattmag


I'm not sure either, but they told me last night that the symptom was the blower not coming on, and my neighbor confirmed that today. All I can tell you is that the system is a 2 stage A/C (I think the A/C unit controls the stage 1 vs stage 2 and not the Nest) and electric resistance forced air heat (which I've never used). There are only 3 wires hooked to the Nest: Rh, W1, and Y1. It worked perfectly since I installed it in June, until yesterday after the software update.



jack b
Gone Fishing
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-08
Cape Cod
kudos:1
reply to PSWired

said by PSWired:

Almost all residential thermostats have control over the refrigeration and air circulation functions separately. That's how the "fan on/auto" function works.

Yes they do, most have a system FAN ON manual override switch and all that does is supplies 24volts to terminal G continuously.

Typically terminals Y (compressor) and G (fan) are energized simultaneously on a cooling call, and the bug that must be happening with the firmware update is that terminal G is NOT being energized, therefore the blower will not run.
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MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to djrobx

said by djrobx:

I leave an old iPhone sitting next to the bed.

$250 thermostat controlled by $500 remote.
Makes sense to me.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

I've got an old iPhone I'll sell you for $500 if you really think they are worth that much.



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to pende_tim

I'll tell you what the Nest is like.

It's like the DVR when the VCR was common. People scoffed and said they were useless, expensive and just like a VCR.

Yes, it looks awesome, and yes I like the tech features... but more importantly, it works, and works well.

I like it, I like the energy tracking features and the ease of use.... and my electric bill was lower, despite me already having a programmable thermostat. For me it's worth every penny, but even I will admit: it is a luxury, but it's one that helps pay for itself, so I don't mind.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


mudtoe

join:2005-10-09
Cincinnati, OH
reply to jack b

Nest sent someone out to the place to check it out. I didn't hear back directly from the person I talked to, but when I called in later a level one person told me that notes in the case showed that the green wire had fallen off. I give them kudos for sending someone out on their nickle, but I'm not so sure I buy the idea that the green wire just happened to fall off at the exact time a firmware update went out.

From examining the web page that shows energy usage I found that I could pinpoint the exact moment the thermostat rebooted after the firmware update (because the thermostat after a reboot shows the temperature being set to the value it had prior to the reboot, as if I had changed it on the web page, but I hadn't changed it at that time), and from then on until the service tech got there the thermostat was trying to run the A/C all the time.

I'm still in the dark as to exactly what happened. What this does show though is that there is a great need for Nest to give customers the ability to opt out of automatic firmware updates, especially for thermostats in vacation homes and other places where there is no human being present to verify that things are working correctly after the update. There should be a way through the web page to turn off updates and then turn them back on once you are there to watch what happens afterward. As I posted earlier, if I didn't have other temperature sensors in the place that started emailing me, I would have never known that this was happening.



djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs:

said by djrobx:

I leave an old iPhone sitting next to the bed.

$250 thermostat controlled by $500 remote.
Makes sense to me.

It's an original EDGE iPhone. Since you're such a great guy, I'll let it go for $400.
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Rethink Billable.