Topic 'Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage' in forum 'Home Improvement' - dslreports.com

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:49:45 EDT

djrobx posted :

said by djrobx:

I leave an old iPhone sitting next to the bed.

$250 thermostat controlled by $500 remote.
Makes sense to me.

It's an original EDGE iPhone. Since you're such a great guy, I'll let it go for $400. :)
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:39:10 EDT

mudtoe posted : Nest sent someone out to the place to check it out. I didn't hear back directly from the person I talked to, but when I called in later a level one person told me that notes in the case showed that the green wire had fallen off. I give them kudos for sending someone out on their nickle, but I'm not so sure I buy the idea that the green wire just happened to fall off at the exact time a firmware update went out.

From examining the web page that shows energy usage I found that I could pinpoint the exact moment the thermostat rebooted after the firmware update (because the thermostat after a reboot shows the temperature being set to the value it had prior to the reboot, as if I had changed it on the web page, but I hadn't changed it at that time), and from then on until the service tech got there the thermostat was trying to run the A/C all the time.

I'm still in the dark as to exactly what happened. What this does show though is that there is a great need for Nest to give customers the ability to opt out of automatic firmware updates, especially for thermostats in vacation homes and other places where there is no human being present to verify that things are working correctly after the update. There should be a way through the web page to turn off updates and then turn them back on once you are there to watch what happens afterward. As I posted earlier, if I didn't have other temperature sensors in the place that started emailing me, I would have never known that this was happening.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:28:16 EDT

KrK posted : I'll tell you what the Nest is like.

It's like the DVR when the VCR was common. People scoffed and said they were useless, expensive and just like a VCR.

Yes, it looks awesome, and yes I like the tech features... but more importantly, it works, and works well.

I like it, I like the energy tracking features and the ease of use.... and my electric bill was lower, despite me already having a programmable thermostat. For me it's worth every penny, but even I will admit: it is a luxury, but it's one that helps pay for itself, so I don't mind.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 17:15:05 EDT

robbin posted : I've got an old iPhone I'll sell you for $500 if you really think they are worth that much.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 17:02:43 EDT

MaynardKrebs posted :

said by djrobx:

I leave an old iPhone sitting next to the bed.

$250 thermostat controlled by $500 remote.
Makes sense to me.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:58:54 EDT

jack b posted :

said by PSWired:

Almost all residential thermostats have control over the refrigeration and air circulation functions separately. That's how the "fan on/auto" function works.

Yes they do, most have a system FAN ON manual override switch and all that does is supplies 24volts to terminal G continuously.

Typically terminals Y (compressor) and G (fan) are energized simultaneously on a cooling call, and the bug that must be happening with the firmware update is that terminal G is NOT being energized, therefore the blower will not run.
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Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:30:23 EDT
mudtoe posted :
I'm not sure either, but they told me last night that the symptom was the blower not coming on, and my neighbor confirmed that today. All I can tell you is that the system is a 2 stage A/C (I think the A/C unit controls the stage 1 vs stage 2 and not the Nest) and electric resistance forced air heat (which I've never used). There are only 3 wires hooked to the Nest: Rh, W1, and Y1. It worked perfectly since I installed it in June, until yesterday after the software update.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 12:10:43 EDT
PSWired posted : Almost all residential thermostats have control over the refrigeration and air circulation functions separately. That's how the "fan on/auto" function works.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 11:46:05 EDT
mattmag posted :
said by mudtoe:
If you have a Nest in a vacation home you had better login to the web page and check out the temperature. After the software update yesterday the Nest in my Florida vacation home has malfunctioned. For some reason it's no longer turning on the blower inside the house, but is just turning on the A/C compressor.

How can it accomplish that? The stat should just initiate a call for cooling, in which case the blower control is performed by the A/C system, not the thermostat. I don't think you have separate circuits just from the outside condenser, do you? Or I may be missing something since it's a warm-climate situation and I'm used to a combined furnace/AC.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 11:38:47 EDT
garys_2k posted :
said by pende_tim:
The box was very vague but it does not seem to do a 2 stage heat pump with aux heat.

It looks like it does, according to the manual »www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfIma···21c2.pdf

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 11:37:37 EDT
Tig posted : $229 at Amazon ca.
»www.amazon.ca/Nest-T100577-Learn···06ML9J4O

The Honeywell looks very functional but at 10" square, it breaks my "Jupiter 2" rule regarding the prominence of technology. I prefer to not have consoles and command centers on display. After all I'm just trying to enjoy my home, I'm not navigating through space.
At under 3.5" the Nest even beats out the classic Honeywell button on the wall that HD is selling.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 11:34:53 EDT
mudtoe posted : If you have a Nest in a vacation home you had better login to the web page and check out the temperature. After the software update yesterday the Nest in my Florida vacation home has malfunctioned. For some reason it's no longer turning on the blower inside the house, but is just turning on the A/C compressor.

Fortunately I have a couple of other temperature and humidity sensors in the place that are hooked up to the internet and they started sending me emails early yesterday evening saying that the temperature in the house had exceeded the warning threshold. When I logged into the Nest web site it showed that the A/C was on, but that the temperature was 4 degrees higher than the set point. After about 15 minutes the Nest would show the word "Delayed" for about 15 minutes and then the cycle would repeat.

I called Nest late last night, and to their credit they had some level 2 people still there, I guess because of the software update. They told me that they have had a couple reports like mine and that the likely cause was that after the software upgrade the Nest likely thinks that it's a boiler type system without a blower. In the mean time I turned the system off in order to not burn out the compressor.

This morning I called my neighbor and asked him to go over to the house, and then I turned the system back on and he confirmed that the compressor was running outside but that the blower inside was not.

I'm awaiting a call back from Nest to see how to resolve this. Last night they said that the Nest probably needed reconfiguring, but as I'm a thousand miles away I can't do that, and the neighbor whom I sent over is in his 70s and I'm afraid that he would be more likely to cause more problems than he would solve if they tried to have him walk through a full reconfiguration. I'm waiting on a call back from Nest today to see what they intend. I asked that they send a tech out to the house to fix it; if they won't then I'm going to have to pay someone versed in Nest for a service call.

This incident brings up some issues with the Nest and the software update procedure. They either have to have a way to remotely back out an update (they said they couldn't and from what the guy told me last night the first time the new software runs it makes some configuration updates and assumptions which is likely the genesis of this problem), or better yet give the customer a way to opt out of automatic software updates and allow them to initiate the update manually when they are present to monitor the results. This is critical IMHO for people who have Nests in unattended locations such as vacation homes.

I don't know how many people have this problem, although it could be quite a number who just don't know yet that it's happened to them. I only found out about it so quickly because I had other sensors in the house that alerted me to the problem within a couple of hours of the software update. The only way people who don't have something like that will know if their off site Nests have a problem is if they login to the web page and note the temperature discrepancy between what the Nest is set at versus the actual temperature. Also, if their A/C compressor doesn't have a safety system to shut it down after a few minutes if the blower doesn't come on, it could be damaged. At the very least if their vacation home is in Florida, or somewhere else where it's still hot, they are in for a really nasty electric bill if the compressor has been running non-stop for days on end.

I'll post an update once I hear back from Nest on their plan of action.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:07:26 EDT
pende_tim posted : I saw the new(?) »www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R···X-03A9gA WiFi Honeywell yesterday in Home Depot also. The box was very vague but it does not seem to do a 2 stage heat pump with aux heat.

The Honeywell specs seem similar to the RadioThermostat 3M50 unit which I have on several single stage systems.
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:03:35 EDT
cableties posted : Here in SouthEastern PA, HomeDepot has the Honeywell RTH8580WF for $150.

»yourhome.honeywell.com/home/Prod···80WF.htm
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Splat

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:36:37 EDT
garys_2k posted : It sounds like you could benefit from a more sophisticated controller than a smart thermostat...

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:25:54 EDT
Tig posted : Very cool. Sounds like it would do well with our heating/cooling schedule.
We like 72 when we lounging around at home and 68 for sleeping.
Things that I did not see are HRV control and remote sensors (that are more economical than a nest in every zone).
Having an open loop geothermal unit, long run times overwhelming the well are a concern. I think the nest will be able to deal with this with a bit of coaching. It clearly can avoid using the auxiliary electric which we affectionately call the $pender.
What is unclear is how it would handle our off grid primary heat source, the zero clearance fireplace. It causes heat imbalances that we manually control using the furnace fan to distribute this heat as required. The living room will get overtemperature, but that's fine as long as the bedrooms are not. This where a couple remote sensors would be nice. I'm looking for it to run the fan, but don't over heat the bedroom. One hot restless sleep and SWMBO would open windows and make me remove the nest in favor of the old Honeywell.
I just might have to put a nest on my Christmass list.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:25:39 EDT
anon posted : In the last Home Depot flyer here in Canada there is a new Honeywell wifi internet connected unit for $160. I saw it last night and it looks like any other Honeywell unit but has the wifi signal indicator bars on the screen. I havent seen it elsewhere.

It would do everything the Nest would do for me, as my thermostat is somewhere where someone might walk by it to trigger its motion sensor once a week.

I looked everywhere on the internet and nest sure tries to make the web interface and any actual screen shots or description of what the software will do a secret. I guess they just want to let their built in program rule the day. Just like apple.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:13:10 EDT
garys_2k posted : I like the gadgetness of it, but I don't like how "obvious" it is. To me a thermostat should be barely seen, not a talking point. The less obtrusive, the better, so this one wouldn't fit my needs.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 07:40:43 EDT
cableties posted :
said by pende_tim:
I see there are a few who think the Nest is over priced and just another pretty face on the wall.
...

I will agree that it is priced more than a non-remote controlled, multi-day programmable (Honeywell, ...) but the features make it desirable if needed. (remote control, learning, internet/wifi access...).

Many times we've left the house for vacation and realized, "we didn't turn down the heat ... or have it warm/cool for when we get home ". Then there is the occasional sick day or cold winter day that one 'stays in'. Grab the iphone or ipad and adjust without getting out of bed (cold floors, affectionate mate...).
;)
--
Splat

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 06:48:39 EDT
pende_tim posted : I see there are a few who think the Nest is over priced and just another pretty face on the wall.

What would you suggest for a remotely accessed 2 stage cool, 3 stage heat pump compatible unit?

All I have seen is the RadioThermostat CT80 model, for $250, A Honeywell CTK03 + RedLINK (for $450 or so)

I could be in the market for one of these units to connect with a Goodman system ( 2 stage + 2 stage propane furnace)
--
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 19:20:35 EDT
itguy05 posted :
quote:
Macs are not business machines. Keeping them integrated in an office environment is a GIANT pain in the ass, so comparing them to business machines is wrong. Even Apple doesn't want to deal with the business side officially hence the discontinued OSX servers.

You do realize there is an OSX Server OS, just not the server hardware. And considering few bought them it made sense to discontinue them.

Maybe for a Windows admin who is used to only MS junk it's hard to integrate Macs but for those of us who know it's about the same as integrating Linux, AIX, or any other UNIX into AD. And another hint, AD is loosely based on LDAP which means you can connect it relatively easily.

When I was a Windows admin, most could not think outside the box or do much with non Microsoft stuff. Shame really as there's a whole better world outside besides Microsoft's software.

quote:
IS bad, keyword IS, not was when it came out. OSX 10.4 or whatever the version was at the time was no picnick.

Having used OSX from 10.2 to today XP is what drove me to OSX. It was better.

quote:
Seriously? Like try putting a child seat into a Versa, it's doable, but you are going to hate your life afterwards and while you are at it try to figure out where to shove the stroller, because it will never fit into the so called trunk. Like try keeping kids entertained with no enterntainment system when you are going more than 5 miles somewhere. Like dual zone climate control (see how back on topic we are here) because you are dying of heat while other people in the car are just fine. Leather seats are not a luxury for some people, especially for someone who's ever tried getting food stains out of the upholstery or smoke. I can give you more examples if necessary.

Seriously? My parents did it in some of the midsize sedans of the 80's just fine. And for fun, my Mom did it in her Mustang 2. I routinely took 7 hour trips with no entertainment center but a book and my imagination in the back of said 80's sedan. (And with Dad puffing away in the front but that's another topic.) Then again my parents were parents and didn't just plop me in front of a TV or whatever and let them be my parents.

None of those things are necessary or needed. About the only time you'd need something bigger is more than 2 kids.

quote:
Yeah you did.

No, actually it was cdru with this:

quote:
You're right about the same market as Apple products, but not for the reason you state. It's in the same market as Apple products because some people have an overwhelming desire to pay a premium for shiny thing that isn't functionally better than cheaper alternatives, but just because it's shiny. A coworker just yesterday saw the new Nest and said he would be willing to pay double for it just because it looks so good.

quote:
I love this statement, I belive it translates into "I spewed some random garbage into an internet forum, but since I actually got called out on it, I don't want to play anymore".

Nope, feel free to PM me and we'll start a topic in General info, computers, cars, whatever. Really don't want to derail this topic any more.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 19:11:58 EDT
Dodge posted :
said by bobrk:
said by Jack_in_VA:
A cheap programmable thermostat like a Honeywell will do exactly what is needed so why buy anything but the cheapest thermostat you can get?

And yet most people don't bother to program their thermostats because it's too hard. That's what this solves.

Obviously when I say "most people," I don't mean anyone in this room.

Programmable thermostats are scary :) We have a honywell touchscreen thermostat in our office that I had to put a lockbox around because people couldn't figure out how to use it properly. Now we have a list of authorized thermostat users :)

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 18:09:48 EDT
djrobx posted :
I still can't understand someone in bed using changing the thermostat as a normal action. The average dude is not going to be doing this.(again IMO)
I have a two story house. The thermostat is down stairs. I also have dogs that sleep in the bed that can make it a pain in the ass to get back to sleep should I get out of the bed.

With a two story house, it's sometimes more complicated than just setting the thermostat to X degrees and enjoying a consistent temperature. If the cycle stops for a long time, it may heat up upstairs and remain cool downstairs.

I leave an old iPhone sitting next to the bed. It's great to be able to control the thermostat if I wake up and feel hot (or turn the heat on and wait under the warm covers, if it's a cold morning). I can also control the ceiling fan and lights from the same controller. My next project is motorized curtains. :)

It's not all that far fetched or crazy. The Aria hotel in Vegas has this same sort of home automation stuff in their hotel rooms.

--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 18:02:53 EDT
bobrk posted :
said by Jack_in_VA:
A cheap programmable thermostat like a Honeywell will do exactly what is needed so why buy anything but the cheapest thermostat you can get?

And yet most people don't bother to program their thermostats because it's too hard. That's what this solves.

Obviously when I say "most people," I don't mean anyone in this room.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:26:10 EDT
Dodge posted :
said by itguy05:
Yes, close. Hint - Look at Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc's BUSINESS CLASS lines, not the consumer stuff.
Macs are not business machines. Keeping them integrated in an office environment is a GIANT pain in the ass, so comparing them to business machines is wrong. Even Apple doesn't want to deal with the business side officially hence the discontinued OSX servers.

said by itguy05:
Not true. XP is bad from a security, performance, and reliability standpoint.
IS bad, keyword IS, not was when it came out. OSX 10.4 or whatever the version was at the time was no picnick.

said by itguy05:
Like what? IIRC that Versa has 4 wheels, an engine, loads of airbags, Cd player, A/C, ABS, gets decent gas mileage and will get you and 3 friends from point A to B. So why buy anything but the cheapest car you can get?
Seriously? Like try putting a child seat into a Versa, it's doable, but you are going to hate your life afterwards and while you are at it try to figure out where to shove the stroller, because it will never fit into the so called trunk. Like try keeping kids entertained with no enterntainment system when you are going more than 5 miles somewhere. Like dual zone climate control (see how back on topic we are here) because you are dying of heat while other people in the car are just fine. Leather seats are not a luxury for some people, especially for someone who's ever tried getting food stains out of the upholstery or smoke. I can give you more examples if necessary.

said by itguy05:
I didn't start with the "Apple People" bashing. ....
Yeah you did.

said by itguy05:
Back to the topic, I'm not going to reply any more as to not further derail this conversation.

I love this statement, I belive it translates into "I spewed some random garbage into an internet forum, but since I actually got called out on it, I don't want to play anymore".

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:36:15 EDT
Jack_in_VA posted :
said by robbin:
said by Jack_in_VA:
I still can't understand someone in bed using changing the thermostat as a normal action. :D :D The average dude is not going to be doing this.

I can definitely think of times when it would be nice to do so. ;) I still work up a sweat in bed on regular occasions! :D

So did my wife when she was going through the "change". ;)

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:30:11 EDT
robbin posted :
said by Jack_in_VA:
I still can't understand someone in bed using changing the thermostat as a normal action. :D :D The average dude is not going to be doing this.

I can definitely think of times when it would be nice to do so. ;) I still work up a sweat in bed on regular occasions! :D

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:23:08 EDT
Jack_in_VA posted :
said by robbin:
Seems like that should work both ways. Some users believe there is value in the Nest. Yet instead of discussing the technical merits of the Nest you seem to be trying to make the case that what works best for you is what is best for all. From what you have posted, you have no need for any kind of programmable thermostat as you only have two settings in your house, summer and winter. Nothing wrong with that but perhaps others prefer to live differently.

I tend to agree robbin but I'm just answering the posts touting the "benefits" of this new high dollar electronic toy (IMO and my word). You have to acknowledge that part of the reason for many of the posts is touting the wow factor. I still can't understand someone in bed using changing the thermostat as a normal action. :D :D The average dude is not going to be doing this.(again IMO) (I am allowed an opinion I presume)

As for value? I don't think it does that much more or any better than many other higher end products on the market that sell for much less. (again my opinion)

But point taken. I'll just read on the sideline and when you think I can post again on this topic let me know.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:06:59 EDT
robbin posted : Seems like that should work both ways. Some users believe there is value in the Nest. Yet instead of discussing the technical merits of the Nest you seem to be trying to make the case that what works best for you is what is best for all. From what you have posted, you have no need for any kind of programmable thermostat as you only have two settings in your house, summer and winter. Nothing wrong with that but perhaps others prefer to live differently.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:47:56 EDT
Jack_in_VA posted : Hey I have a 18 SEER Heat Pump. My last bill was for 800 kWh. You can burn up in your mega homes but I'm going to be cool and comfortable in mine. It's my choice and really none of your business.

Right now 82 outside 75 inside. :)

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:37:02 EDT
fifty nine posted :
said by Jack_in_VA:
said by nunya:
That thermostat nearly costs as much as my furnace. I can't believe they are still around. It reminds me of an old saying among con men: "There's a mark born every minute, and one to trim 'em and one to knock 'em".

$250 for a thermostat. It has to be the best thing since sliced bread. :D

Well, compared to leaving your thermostat at 75 all year long I'm sure it would pay for itself.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:14:22 EDT
cowboyro posted :
said by Anonuser:
I like the ability to control the thermostat without even needing to get out of bed. just reach over, tap the iphone screen, and heat shuts off, or turns on, or circulating fan only, or ac etc....

I like the ability to control mine without doing anything. It turns off at 8AM during the week and goes on slight setback at 9AM during weekend. When I come home at 6PM it's nice and warm. No tapping required.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:12:00 EDT
itguy05 posted :
said by Jack_in_VA:
A cheap programmable thermostat like a Honeywell will do exactly what is needed so why buy anything but the cheapest thermostat you can get?
Same reason not everyone drives the cheapest car in America. They want different things.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:10:42 EDT
Jack_in_VA posted : A cheap programmable thermostat like a Honeywell will do exactly what is needed so why buy anything but the cheapest thermostat you can get?

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:05:50 EDT
itguy05 posted :
said by Dodge:
Not even close. And calling it Wintel is kind of stupid at this stage considering Macs are Intel based now, does that make the Mintels?
Yes, close. Hint - Look at Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc's BUSINESS CLASS lines, not the consumer stuff.

And It's a label for a Windows/Intel machine. Since Linux can also run on Intel and now that Win 8 is due out for ARM there needs to be a distinction.

quote:
This stopped being true since Win XP came out.

Not true. XP is bad from a security, performance, and reliability standpoint.

quote:
Do you really need a list of features that more expensive cars have that the Versa doesn't that are functionally different and not just a shiny toy things?

Like what? IIRC that Versa has 4 wheels, an engine, loads of airbags, Cd player, A/C, ABS, gets decent gas mileage and will get you and 3 friends from point A to B. So why buy anything but the cheapest car you can get?

quote:
What I can't stand (and the only reason why I responded to every point in your post), is when the discussion starts with a thermostat in a HOME IMPROVEMENT forum, and all of a sudden it's the "Wintel sucks and android with it" post. Was that really necessary?

I didn't start with the "Apple People" bashing. I too could care less. It is interesting that technology brings out these sort of emotions when it's one of the few things people are so proud of how cheap they can be. I'd bet none of the people bashing the Nest, Apple, or Bentley crowds own the Nissan Versa which is the cheapest car in America and serves the same purpose and has many of the same features as whatever much more expensive car does.

Back to the topic, I'm not going to reply any more as to not further derail this conversation.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:26:45 EDT
bobrk posted :
said by Dodge:
said by itguy05:
What premium is that? Apple laptops and desktops cost roughly the same as a similarly spec'ed Wintel machine.
Not even close. And calling it Wintel is kind of stupid at this stage considering Macs are Intel based now, does that make the Mintels?
MacTels.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:26:12 EDT
Jack_in_VA posted :
said by mattmag:
I can already see the next big hacking craze gone wild.

War-driving to find open Wi-Fi Nests and then programming them to go to full-blast heat in the summertime...

;)

I think it's a UN conspiracy. Instead of the device being outside in the "smart meter" they can get it inside hidden in a thermostat where it will be way more effective in gathering data on the inhabitants. :D

Just think web connected 24/7.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:21:11 EDT
mattmag posted :

I can already see the next big hacking craze gone wild.

War-driving to find open Wi-Fi Nests and then programming them to go to full-blast heat in the summertime...

;)

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:04:01 EDT
Jack_in_VA posted : Dodge: +1

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:03:33 EDT
Jack_in_VA posted : I am also a mechanical person but I don't have a need to change my thermostat from the bed.

72 degrees winter
75 degrees summer

Works fine for me

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 13:59:53 EDT
Dodge posted :
said by itguy05:
What premium is that? Apple laptops and desktops cost roughly the same as a similarly spec'ed Wintel machine.
Not even close. And calling it Wintel is kind of stupid at this stage considering Macs are Intel based now, does that make the Mintels?
said by itguy05:
And they will most likely last longer and require less maintenance and upkeep than a comparable Windows machine.
This stopped being true since Win XP came out.

said by itguy05:
Wifey just got rid of her original White Macbook from 2006. Only reason was the battery was shot, it was running a little slow, and the HD was full. Not wanting to sink money into upgrades for a dead end machine we got her a new one.
Dell E1705 which was manufacturered somewhere around the time as the macbook you are describing still works great, battery is shot and one usb port doesn't work because soda was spilled on it, but no other issues.

At the same time I have a white macbook that the camera doesn't work, cd drive is broken, 2 bulging batteries thrown out and periodically it screams about some system board error, oh and the plastic casing is cracked because of the bulging battery

said by itguy05:
iPhone still has it all over Android. Not necessarily spec sheet wars but in usability. I don't have to think about my iPhone, it just works. My Droid X was a mess and really not a good phone.
OG Droid still works great and I use it for dev purposes, Droid Razr and Droid Razr Maxx both work without any issues. Razr fell on the floor about a hundred times since we had it (no case, no screen protector) and 0 damage. At the same time co-worker's iPhone 4S fell last week on a tiled floor in the office kitchen area - screen shattered, the phone still kind of worked, but the image was barely visible from the cracks and the touchscreen functionality was not working anymore. While setting up another co-workers iPhone 5 with exchange the phone froze twice.

said by itguy05:
So I'm still trying to figure out the premium for functionality. If it were all about functionality we'd all be driving $11000 Nissan Versas. After all anything else is paying a premium for a shiny thing that isn't functionally better than cheaper alternatives.

Do you really need a list of features that more expensive cars have that the Versa doesn't that are functionally different and not just a shiny toy things?

Personally I don't care if people buy iPhone 5 or SGS III, Macbook or a Asus, Nest thermostat or Honeywell, Bentley or a Versa - it's your money do with it whatever you wish. What I can't stand (and the only reason why I responded to every point in your post), is when the discussion starts with a thermostat in a HOME IMPROVEMENT forum, and all of a sudden it's the "Wintel sucks and android with it" post. Was that really necessary?

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 13:49:43 EDT
Anonuser posted : I have the original Nest. I do like it.

I am a very VERY mechanical person (I build my own cars, gas & electric just as example). Installation was 5 minutes.
Connected to WI-FI.

I like the ability to control the thermostat from my iPhone.

It tells me temp and humidity right on my phone, as well as able to change the schedule on my phone.

I also like it as a "remove" for my furnace/ac. My home is split level, thermostat is upstairs by the kitchen in the hallway, and my bedroom is downstairs. I like the ability to control the thermostat without even needing to get out of bed. just reach over, tap the iphone screen, and heat shuts off, or turns on, or circulating fan only, or ac etc....

And lastly, my 2 yr old and 4 year old love it. It has a proximity sensor to turn the NEST screen on when you walk past. My kids arn't tall enough to touch the thermostat, but it keeps them busy. They try sneeking up on it, seeing how close they can get before it turns on etc...
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Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 13:25:40 EDT
bobrk posted :
said by cdru:
said by Ken:
It's basically the same market as Apple products. People that want advanced technology but don't want to learn indepth knowledge in order to use advanced technology.
You're right about the same market as Apple products, but not for the reason you state. It's in the same market as Apple products because some people have an overwhelming desire to pay a premium for shiny thing that isn't functionally better than cheaper alternatives, but just because it's shiny. A coworker just yesterday saw the new Nest and said he would be willing to pay double for it just because it looks so good.

Oh my. I wish my technically inclined brethren would celebrate the application of technology to make things easier.

I'm sure that you guys all adjust your spark advance and retardation manually while you drive your vehicles, of course monitoring your fuel pressure for optimum performance. Not to mention those weekly lube jobs and brake adjustments.

I'm positive that you toast all your bread manually, not daring to trust something as silly as a bimetallic strip to make your toast perfectly brown.

I would be flabbergasted to hear that wash all your dishes and clothes with a machine instead of carefully by hand, examining each item carefully for any signs of contamination and wear. You wouldn't want to trust something as precious as clothes and dishes to the precarious whims of timers and microprocessors.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 13:14:42 EDT
cableties posted : Although it is a pricey appliance, it has to be good for a specific niche.

-Location of the thermostat
(mine is near hall to kitchen-living room...completely bypassed most of time)
-Type of HVAC
(I've a newer Carrier, and noticed savings in bills after setting it to 76F in summer and 65F for winter...without too much spike to ramp up when occupied)
-Need to save energy vs ROI on the nest
(a $90 fully programmable can save you $150 if you don't need ease of use, remote setup-control...)

For me, not worth re-wire, painting area the reduced footprint uncovers, and ... well... it is cool! :D
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Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 12:55:18 EDT
itguy05 posted :
said by cdru:
You're right about the same market as Apple products, but not for the reason you state. It's in the same market as Apple products because some people have an overwhelming desire to pay a premium for shiny thing that isn't functionally better than cheaper alternatives, but just because it's shiny. A coworker just yesterday saw the new Nest and said he would be willing to pay double for it just because it looks so good.

What premium is that? Apple laptops and desktops cost roughly the same as a similarly spec'ed Wintel machine. And they will most likely last longer and require less maintenance and upkeep than a comparable Windows machine. Wifey just got rid of her original White Macbook from 2006. Only reason was the battery was shot, it was running a little slow, and the HD was full. Not wanting to sink money into upgrades for a dead end machine we got her a new one.

iPhone still has it all over Android. Not necessarily spec sheet wars but in usability. I don't have to think about my iPhone, it just works. My Droid X was a mess and really not a good phone.

So I'm still trying to figure out the premium for functionality. If it were all about functionality we'd all be driving $11000 Nissan Versas. After all anything else is paying a premium for a shiny thing that isn't functionally better than cheaper alternatives.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 11:55:57 EDT
cdru posted :
said by Ken:
It's basically the same market as Apple products. People that want advanced technology but don't want to learn indepth knowledge in order to use advanced technology.
You're right about the same market as Apple products, but not for the reason you state. It's in the same market as Apple products because some people have an overwhelming desire to pay a premium for shiny thing that isn't functionally better than cheaper alternatives, but just because it's shiny. A coworker just yesterday saw the new Nest and said he would be willing to pay double for it just because it looks so good.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 11:21:10 EDT
Daarken posted : I have a nest, it was given to me as a gift.
As far as I am concerned, it looks great, and it works as advertises.
It is located in a high traffic area, so if only a single person is home and they are either resting or occupied, it will adjust the temperature a little higher.
Additionally since it was installed, each of my monthly bills has been lower in usage then the previous years corresponding month.
Seeing as we just had one of the hottest summers in history, I'm satisfied.
Besides it really does look good.
My software will be updated by tonight as per the email I got from nest.
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Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 21:56:19 EDT
markf posted : I've looked into it, but it seems like an expensive, impractical toy (sounds kinda like Apple products...but I digress).

The motion sensor aspect would be find and dandy if you had the thermostat in a high traffic location, but just thinking about where mine is, I am quite sure it would think I am gone for large periods of time when I am actually at home.

There are other remote programmable thermostats for $100+ cheaper from actual HVAC companies (Honeywell for example). I would pass on this one myself based on the information I have.

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 17:36:08 EDT
voiplover posted : Sorry. This just reminds me of when occupancy sensors were made to solve the energy crisis. Some genius put on in the bathroom to a 2 million dollar home to eliminate the need of touching a possibly contaminated light switch.
Of course it was the owner's wife that found the major flaw when the lights when out prior to her knowing how to use the TP dispenser. :o

Re: New Nest Thermostat- 2 stage

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 17:03:15 EDT
bobrk posted :
said by Kearnstd:
How does it determine if people are home? I only ask this because I know that it has a motion sensor but a majority of thermostats are located in hallways and cannot see the normally occupied rooms, In fact many homes they are located in the hallway for the bedrooms meaning it might not see motion for a good chunk of a day.

It essentially has a motion detector, but you can also override it.

The technique is that you teach it over some time and it memorizes and analyzes your patterns.

Also, you can program it remotely over the web.