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golden eagle
Aquila chrysaetos
Premium
join:2002-08-06
On a cliff

[TWC] Deciphering tracert

So we've been experiencing connection issues every evening for about a week now - slow speeds, random disconnects, etc. I know this is an issue w/TWC in my neighborhood - I normally start the day at 25000 kb/s and end around 10000 kb/s but last night the stuff hit the fan. Speeds were low as 60 kb/s up & 24 kb/s down. I called TWC and after the normal trouble shooting I was left with a Ref# for a 24 hour "Device Watch". I'm wondering if anyone can give their best guess as to what is going on by viewing the tracert. I just want to be able to give the tech some useful insight when I speak to him/her tonight.

Last Night

Tracing route to google.com [74.125.226.195]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1   370 ms     2 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     *        *     2811 ms  cpe-74-xx-xx-x.nyc.res.rr.com [74.xx.xx.x]
  3    13 ms     *       13 ms  cpe-24-168-135-25.nj.res.rr.com [24.168.135.25]
  4    38 ms     *        *     bun117.nyquny91-rtr001.nyc.rr.com [184.152.112.101]
  5     *       19 ms    15 ms  bun6-nyquny91-rtr002.nyc.rr.com [24.29.148.254]
  6    20 ms     *        *     107.14.19.22
  7    26 ms    22 ms     *     ae-0-0.cr0.nyc30.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.26]
  8    23 ms     *        *     66.109.9.30
  9     *       24 ms    20 ms  107.14.19.135
 10    75 ms    81 ms     *     66.109.9.66
 11     *       21 ms     *     209.85.252.46
 12    40 ms    42 ms     *     72.14.236.98
 13    60 ms     *        *     72.14.239.92
 14     *        *       20 ms  209.85.251.36
 15    22 ms    41 ms     *     72.14.239.250
 16    20 ms     *        *     lga15s28-in-f3.1e100.net [74.125.226.195]
 17    22 ms    22 ms     *     lga15s28-in-f3.1e100.net [74.125.226.195]
 18     *       21 ms     *     lga15s28-in-f3.1e100.net [74.125.226.195]
 19     *       21 ms     *     lga15s28-in-f3.1e100.net [74.125.226.195]
 20    21 ms    22 ms     *     lga15s28-in-f3.1e100.net [74.125.226.195]
 21    20 ms    22 ms    22 ms  lga15s28-in-f3.1e100.net [74.125.226.195]
 
Trace complete.
 
Tracing route to nytimes.com [170.149.168.130]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1     4 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2  3332 ms  3124 ms  2629 ms  cpe-74-xx-xx-x.nyc.res.rr.com [74.xx.xx.x]
  3     *        *       12 ms  cpe-24-168-135-25.nj.res.rr.com [24.168.135.25]
  4     *       35 ms     *     bun117.nyquny91-rtr001.nyc.rr.com [184.152.112.101]
  5     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  6    17 ms     *        *     ae-3-0.cr0.nyc20.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.76]
  7    14 ms     *       15 ms  107.14.17.169
  8     *       13 ms    14 ms  xe-11-0-2.edge2.Newark1.Level3.net [4.30.135.153]
  9     *       13 ms    15 ms  ae-21-52.car1.Newark1.Level3.net [4.69.156.37]
 10    17 ms    36 ms    15 ms  NEW-YORK-TI.car1.Newark1.Level3.net [4.30.129.234]
 11     *       14 ms    15 ms  170.149.168.130
 
Trace complete.
 

This Morning

Tracing route to google.com [74.125.226.197]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1     7 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2    52 ms    13 ms    24 ms  cpe-74-xx-xx-x.nyc.res.rr.com [74.xx.xx.x]
  3    12 ms    11 ms    12 ms  cpe-24-168-135-25.nj.res.rr.com [24.168.135.25]
  4    15 ms    15 ms    15 ms  bun117.nyquny91-rtr001.nyc.rr.com [184.152.112.101]
  5    16 ms    38 ms    15 ms  bun6-nyquny91-rtr002.nyc.rr.com [24.29.148.254]
  6    20 ms    15 ms    15 ms  107.14.19.22
  7    21 ms    23 ms    23 ms  107.14.17.172
  8    21 ms    23 ms    23 ms  ae-4-0.cr0.dca20.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.28]
  9    20 ms    18 ms    18 ms  ae-1-0.pr0.dca10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.165]
 10    32 ms    49 ms    19 ms  74.125.49.181
 11    19 ms    18 ms    18 ms  209.85.252.80
 12    20 ms    21 ms    21 ms  72.14.236.152
 13    39 ms    21 ms    21 ms  72.14.239.92
 14    21 ms    21 ms    21 ms  209.85.251.34
 15    23 ms    21 ms    22 ms  72.14.239.250
 16    19 ms    21 ms    22 ms  lga15s28-in-f5.1e100.net [74.125.226.197]
 
Trace complete.
 
Tracing route to nytimes.com [170.149.168.130]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1     4 ms     1 ms     1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2    44 ms    12 ms    22 ms  cpe-xx-xx-xx-1.nyc.res.rr.com [74.xx.xx.x]
  3    11 ms    11 ms    12 ms  cpe-24-168-135-25.nj.res.rr.com [24.168.135.25]
  4    19 ms    15 ms    15 ms  bun117.nyquny91-rtr001.nyc.rr.com [184.152.112.101]
  5    17 ms    15 ms    15 ms  bun6-nyquny91-rtr002.nyc.rr.com [24.29.148.254]
  6    20 ms    15 ms    15 ms  ae-3-0.cr0.nyc20.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.76]
  7    15 ms    15 ms    31 ms  107.14.17.169
  8    14 ms    15 ms    12 ms  xe-11-0-2.edge2.Newark1.Level3.net [4.30.135.153]
  9    55 ms    92 ms   155 ms  ae-21-52.car1.Newark1.Level3.net [4.69.156.37]
 10    17 ms    14 ms    15 ms  NEW-YORK-TI.car1.Newark1.Level3.net [4.30.129.234]
 11    15 ms    15 ms    15 ms  170.149.168.130
 
Trace complete.
 


bluepoint

join:2001-03-24

What time was the first traceroute? If you live by south manhattan, there was a "HUB maintenance" in your area this morning from 1AM to 5AM and the day before possibly adding more downstream channels, if that's the case reboot your modem. You can check maintenance schedule in your area from here. »help.rr.com/HMSLogic/network_status.aspx
Take note: Schedules that were done will not show anymore.



golden eagle
Aquila chrysaetos
Premium
join:2002-08-06
On a cliff

I'm in Queens. Trace routes were done at about 10:15 last night and 7:30 this morning. When I called last night the tech said to me that there were no service outages in my area.

And when I wrote that "the normal trouble shooting" was done I meant unplugging, rebooting, etc. of the modem, router and PC.

Thanks



bluepoint

join:2001-03-24

Okay, then your traceroute says you have congestion in your node during primetime. Your second hop is your gateway and looking at your trace, its very bad. Until TWC resolves the congestion, you will see this problem. Do you have a D3 modem?



DrDrew
That others may surf
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:15
reply to golden eagle

Have you tried plugging your PC direct into the modem? or disconnecting all but the PC doing the tracert? Seeing that you have huge pings at your own gateway makes it seem that the congestion is starting in your own home network.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.



bluepoint

join:2001-03-24

2 edits

said by DrDrew:

Have you tried plugging your PC direct into the modem? or disconnecting all but the PC doing the tracert? Seeing that you have huge pings at your own gateway makes it seem that the congestion is starting in your own home network.

The second hop is not in his network, it's TWC's gateway(cpe-74-xx-xx-x.nyc.res.rr.com). Why are you suggesting congestion in his network? If the first hop(his router) shows high ping then I will agree with you, however the congestion is in the TWC's gateway(node) which is already out of his network.


golden eagle
Aquila chrysaetos
Premium
join:2002-08-06
On a cliff
reply to DrDrew

Couldn't do it last night - took just 15 minutes to connect after a reboot but here's the trace route from 2 days ago w/out the router.

Tracing route to nytimes.com [170.149.168.130]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1  2080 ms  1511 ms  1186 ms  cpe-24-xxx-xxx-x.nyc.res.rr.com [24.xxx.xxx.x]
  2    13 ms    12 ms    12 ms  cpe-24-168-135-29.nj.res.rr.com [24.168.135.29]
  3    22 ms    15 ms    15 ms  184-152-112-121.nyc.rr.com [184.152.112.121]
  4    20 ms     *        *     bun6-nycmnytg-rtr002.nyc.rr.com [24.29.148.250]
  5    14 ms    38 ms    15 ms  ae-4-0.cr0.nyc30.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.78]
  6    16 ms    12 ms    11 ms  ae-1-0.pr0.nyc30.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.161]
  7    12 ms    11 ms    16 ms  xe-7-2-0.edge2.Newark1.Level3.net [4.59.20.33]
  8    14 ms    34 ms    11 ms  ae-11-51.car1.Newark1.Level3.net [4.69.156.5]
  9    20 ms    34 ms    14 ms  NEW-YORK-TI.car1.Newark1.Level3.net [4.30.129.234]
 10    18 ms    14 ms    15 ms  170.149.168.130
 
Trace complete.
 
Tracing route to google.com [173.194.43.5]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
 
  1  1422 ms  1412 ms  1700 ms  cpe-24-xxx-xxx-x.nyc.res.rr.com [24.xxx.xxx.x]
  2    13 ms    11 ms    12 ms  cpe-24-168-135-29.nj.res.rr.com [24.168.135.29]
  3    14 ms    15 ms    39 ms  184-152-112-121.nyc.rr.com [184.152.112.121]
  4    21 ms    15 ms    15 ms  bun6-nycmnytg-rtr002.nyc.rr.com [24.29.148.250]
  5    18 ms    15 ms    15 ms  107.14.19.24
  6    26 ms    23 ms    23 ms  66.109.9.30
  7    31 ms    18 ms    18 ms  ae-1-0.pr0.dca10.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.165]
  8    19 ms    19 ms    18 ms  66.109.9.66
  9    20 ms    18 ms    18 ms  209.85.252.46
 10    20 ms    35 ms    18 ms  72.14.236.98
 11    19 ms    21 ms    21 ms  72.14.239.92
 12    22 ms    18 ms    22 ms  209.85.251.34
 13    19 ms    18 ms    19 ms  72.14.237.252
 14    20 ms    21 ms    19 ms  lga15s34-in-f5.1e100.net [173.194.43.5]
 
Trace complete.
 


golden eagle
Aquila chrysaetos
Premium
join:2002-08-06
On a cliff
reply to bluepoint

said by bluepoint:

Do you have a D3 modem?

Excuse my ignorance ... D3?


bluepoint

join:2001-03-24

D3=Docsis 3



golden eagle
Aquila chrysaetos
Premium
join:2002-08-06
On a cliff

Duh.

Yes it is. RCA DCM425



bluepoint

join:2001-03-24

Then wow, you really have a very congested node, having a D3 modem you were already using 4 bonded channels which should help a bit. Report this problem with TWC and then cross your fingers.

OOOPs, wait a minute your modem is a Docsis 2, that means you're using single channel. Still though, the problem is congested node.


iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast

First-hop latency doesn't matter, as long as it disappears after the first hop.

Those traces, except for the first one, look fine. Low latency all the way through.

The traceroute the first night, on the other hand, shows what looks to be serious packet loss. But it's gone now.

I'd recommend upgrading to a DOCSIS 3 modem to ease congestion and get your advertised speeds. If you're renting, TWC should be happy to switch it out for you. If you aren't renting, it'll cost a hunk of change ($80 or so) but it should alleviate congestion issues.



bluepoint

join:2001-03-24

said by iansltx:

First-hop latency doesn't matter, as long as it disappears after the first hop.

Explain please.


golden eagle
Aquila chrysaetos
Premium
join:2002-08-06
On a cliff
reply to iansltx

My mistake I was looking at the wrong list. I'll mention swapping out the modem to the tech this evening.

btw I have yet to be notified by TW that I'll be hit w/a rental fee for the modem.



hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:11
reply to bluepoint

Unless you are playing a game or something on the first hop a high ping time to that is not a reflection of your performance to other sites. That hop can be configured either not to respond to pings, or do everything else its trying to do before responding which of course will be reflected in the trace. The last set the OP posted were perfect to the ultimate destination.
The early ones were very ugly with the time outs but again if you exclude the time outs the ping time to the ultimate destination looks ok.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson



bluepoint

join:2001-03-24

If you have compared the tracerts from the primetime to the morning tracerts, there is a big difference in ping times. The OP mentioned his download speed usually in the non prime time @25Mbps and settles to 10Mbps at night. He is loosing 15Mbps at night due to a congested TWC gateway. The traceroutes represents the problem.
For the OP to have a better service, TWC needs to split the node he belongs. This has been a long time problem in Queens, it appears there are still problem in some areas.



hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:11

Look at the time at the last hop and then tell me that again.
The only thing that matters is the LAST hop.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson



bluepoint

join:2001-03-24

Wrong loosing 15Mbps because of a congested gateway is not acceptable. We are not talking about the last hop. Everyone can reach the last hop but the question is for how fast.



hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:11

"Wrong loosing 15Mbps because of a congested gateway is not acceptable. We are not talking about the last hop. Everyone can reach the last hop but the question is for how fast."

The trace shows exactly how fast you can reach the last hop.

The packet loss is a problem in the first routes with a router, with the router out it looks a lot better.

Much more troubleshooting needs to be done before we can reach the conclusion you did.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson



bluepoint

join:2001-03-24

Without the router
1 2080 ms 1511 ms 1186 ms cpe-24-xxx-xxx-x.nyc.res.rr.com [24.xxx.xxx.x]

With the router
1 4 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 3332 ms 3124 ms 2629 ms cpe-74-xx-xx-x.nyc.res.rr.com [74.xx.xx.x]

From a congestion point of view, they are just the same high ping times, that were taken at different times. His non prime traces is a lot better in single or ten ms digit. Compared to our node, that is not congested even at night and because of it we get the same speed consistently at anytime. Here's the gateway's ping right now.
2. hop: 68.xxx.xxx.x (cpe-68-xxx-xxx-x.NYC.res.rr.com): 20 ms



hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:11

1 recommendation

Sigh.

Lets look at the last hop

With the router Night:

21 20 ms 22 ms 22 ms lga15s28-in-f3.1e100.net [74.125.226.195]

11 * 14 ms 15 ms 170.149.168.130

With the router Morning:

16 19 ms 21 ms 22 ms lga15s28-in-f5.1e100.net [74.125.226.197]

11 15 ms 15 ms 15 ms 170.149.168.130

Without the router:

10 18 ms 14 ms 15 ms 170.149.168.130

14 20 ms 21 ms 19 ms lga15s34-in-f5.1e100.net [173.194.43.5]

As any technically minded person will tell you the only hop that we care about is the last one. No one is interested in the first one other than you.
As I said previously the packet loss with the router is a concern.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson



bluepoint

join:2001-03-24

said by hobgoblin:

Sigh.

As any technically minded person will tell you the only hop that we care about is the last one.

Wrong, a technically knowledgeable person will look at every hop, any congestion at each route will affect the latency. And that's why traceroute helps technical people to find router problems if any.


hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:11

"Wrong, a technically knowledgeable person will look at every hop, any congestion at each route will affect the latency. "

Ok I am done with this conversation. This discussion has been done to death multiple times over the years. You must have missed them.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson



bluepoint

join:2001-03-24

Multiple times dead, wow that's your best technical answer. I agree, I must end this conversation. Don't forget though you need to help the OP.



hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:11

"Multiple times dead, wow that's your best technicl answer."

A technical person can always spell technical correctly. I would suggest the OP visits »Time Warner Cable TV/Voice and posts relevant information in that forum.

Good edit!

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson



bluepoint

join:2001-03-24

said by hobgoblin:

"A technical person can always spell technical correctly. Hob

Nope you're too late.


Beachie
Stranded in paradise

join:2001-07-12
St. Pete, FL
kudos:2

It's not too late to fix [sic] loosing



antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25
United State
kudos:4
reply to golden eagle

Ping cpe-74-xx-xx-x.nyc.res.rr.com [74.xx.xx.x] for a few minutes. It seems like this one is losing packets.



Napsterbater
Meh
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-28
Milledgeville, GA
Reviews:
·Windstream
reply to bluepoint

said by bluepoint:

said by hobgoblin:

Sigh.

As any technically minded person will tell you the only hop that we care about is the last one.

Wrong, a technically knowledgeable person will look at every hop, any congestion at each route will affect the latency. And that's why traceroute helps technical people to find router problems if any.

In this case there is no evidence of really anything wrong in any of the trace routes except for that fist one with all of the *'s in it.

The "First" hop with high latency just mean the device is putting ICMP directed at it and only at it on the back burner while it deals with other traffic, hence why the rest of the hops have a normal latency, if the high latency continued then yes there really is a delay there.

What ever the problem is its not showing in the traceroute.
--
ASUS M4A79T Deluxe | AMD Phenom II x3 720 BE AM3 w/4 Cores @ 3.41Ghz(OC) | 4Gb DDR3 Memory @ 1600mhz | Sapphire ATI HD4870 1GB 800mhz/1000mhz(OC) | 2x500GB HDD's Raid 0 | Windows 7 Ultimate x64 Build 7600 (RTM) | Windstream DSL 12m (14.9m Sync)/766k


skuv

@rr.com
reply to bluepoint

said by bluepoint:

Wrong, a technically knowledgeable person will look at every hop, any congestion at each route will affect the latency. And that's why traceroute helps technical people to find router problems if any.

A traceroute directs UDP or ICMP at EACH HOP separately, and gets an ICMP response from EACH HOP separately. Each measurement of latency is for the time which that individual hop responded to the UDP or ICMP from the traceroute.

If I am getting low latency from the last hop, then that is all that matters.

Latency at any particular hop that doesn't continue is latency to the CPU of that particular router hop. Modern day service provider routers have the management plane separated from the forwarding plane. A router responds to traceroutes from its management plane. If that management plane is busy, it will delay the ICMP response to the traceroute. All of the other traceroute packets pass through the router's forwarding plane, which is controlled by ASICs or other dedicated CPUs within the linecards of the router and are designed to forward packets quickly.

Maybe now you'll understand why high latency from a specific hop does not affect the entire round trip if the same latency is not being added to each hop thereafter.

Latency caused by congestion would show up at every hop in the traceroute, because the forwarding plane (the linecards) have the actual ports that would be congested. Adding the congestion latency to each traceroute packet that is being sent to each subsequent packet after the congested port.

This traceroute shows no signs of congestion latency.