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johnkim

join:2011-10-01

DTV illegal in Canada? What is the legal justification?

I don't understand the criminality of DTV in Canada. What is supreme court's justification on this?

It can't simply be "it is a criminal offense because it invades Canadian culture" . Or could it?

There are many illogical laws but this one tops it.


DanteX

join:2010-09-09
kudos:1

What Canadian Culture? we import American Culture in bulk



zong
Premium
join:2005-07-21
Scarborough, ON
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reply to johnkim

DTV, or Digital TV is legal in Canada. As in, the kind that comes in with a good old fashioned antenna, or a new fashioned version of the exact same thing just looking different.

BUD type Satellite (Big Ugly Dish) is legal and many still use it. There are lots of open and legal feeds on the old CBand.

Dish and other Small Form Satellite providers are not legal in Canada unless you get Shaw, Telus of BellTV.

However, this forum isn't for discussing the grey market dish providers from the US.


johnkim

join:2011-10-01
reply to DanteX

I agree. There must be some justification to classify it in the criminal code, right?

If one pays for it, how can you say it is illegal?


MaynardKrebs
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by johnkim:

I agree. There must be some justification to classify it in the criminal code, right?

If one pays for it, how can you say it is illegal?

You're denying the Canadian 'rights' holder the opportunity to rip you off. Care for some lube now?

johnkim

join:2011-10-01
reply to zong

My topic is not meant to for a discussion of how to acquire DTV. Instead, it is meant to discuss the legal justification for classifying it under the criminal code.

theft is a crime; assault is a crime; fraud is a crime; using a foreign TV channel is also a crime. However, the latter does not fit the bill of what our society see as "illegal".

Based on your assertion, we are not allowed to question the legitimacy of a law because the item described it is "illegal" ?



DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to johnkim

said by johnkim:

I agree. There must be some justification to classify it in the criminal code, right?

If one pays for it, how can you say it is illegal?

Paying for something doesn't make it legal.

For the rationale behind what you ask about,

»www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.ns···562.html
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


zong
Premium
join:2005-07-21
Scarborough, ON
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reply to johnkim

Johnkim: At least call it by the correct name

DTV is Digital TV. It is over the air, free as in beer, drawn in my a good old fashioned antenna, in 1080p hi definition glory TV

What you are referring to is Digital Satellite Television

Not the same thing, use the correct terminology.



DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2
reply to johnkim

said by johnkim:

theft is a crime;

Theft of telecommunications is a criminal code matter. Using an illegal dish is allowing you to view material which others have paid money for to distribute in Canada. Your action is infringing on their business model. You are stealing from them.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08
reply to johnkim

You are legaly entitled demodulate anything unencrypted and listen/watch but not to transmit on licensed frequencys or record what you hear.

If you start to try decrypt things then you are breaking the law. (such as p25 radio with des encryption like the police use, pirate satellite service, your neighbors wifi,gsm ect).


balur

join:2010-04-28
kudos:1
reply to johnkim

Do you mean Direct TV? The American Satellite provider?



El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
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Etobicoke, ON
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1 recommendation

reply to johnkim

I'm going to assume we're talking about Satelite TV here, specifically Dish and Direct.

First off, spectrum/frequencies is licensed by the Federal government, so the carrier pays the government for a license to broadcast on those frequencies, or if you prefer carry business on those frequencies.

Secondly, there's the matter of rights; which is that Canadian carriers have paid for exclusive rights to broadcast these shows on these same frequencies they've paid to do business on.

That's the logic behind it, even if I don't agree with it.
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have


zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw

said by El Quintron:

Secondly, there's the matter of rights; which is that Canadian carriers have paid for exclusive rights to broadcast these shows on these same frequencies they've paid to do business on.

Yup its a weird system we have up here. Mostly because we freely have access to US channels (through OTA or cable subscriptions). Somehow the TV climate in Canada evolved to having several major Canadian networks who primarily regurgitate content from the major US networks and dump their commercials overtop and make is pay for it.

The laws are in place to protect that business model It's weird because if we didn't have the Canadian channels then we could watch the same content without simsubs and have cheaper cable bills. Win-Win.

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to johnkim

If a signal can be received over the air in a particular area, SimSub rules shouldn't apply. Unfortunately, the CRTC doesn't see it that way.
--
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net


bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to zod5000

said by zod5000:

The laws are in place to protect that business model It's weird because if we didn't have the Canadian channels then we could watch the same content without simsubs and have cheaper cable bills. Win-Win.

Sim-subs, yes. Cheaper, not too likely. Canadian broadcast networks are still free to carry for the cable/satellite companies, US networks aren't.


Spike
Premium
join:2008-05-16
Toronto, ON

said by bt:

said by zod5000:

The laws are in place to protect that business model It's weird because if we didn't have the Canadian channels then we could watch the same content without simsubs and have cheaper cable bills. Win-Win.

Sim-subs, yes. Cheaper, not too likely. Canadian broadcast networks are still free to carry for the cable/satellite companies, US networks aren't.

I don't see how thats even relevant when the so-called "Canadian broadcast networks" ARE the BDU's.

Its like a bad copyright law that was lobbied for entirely on behalf of big business. You're just protecting Bell/Rogers/etc by making out of country subscription TV illegal.

scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1
reply to bt

So anyone want to provide an answer to the op question. Is it illegal to subscribe to and pay for Direct TV or Dishnetwork in Canada. Who cares about if it takes money away from Bell or some other cable provider. The OP is looking for an actual criminal code offence with relation to paying for American satellite in Canada.



Spike
Premium
join:2008-05-16
Toronto, ON

said by scorpido:

So anyone want to provide an answer to the op question. Is it illegal to subscribe to and pay for Direct TV or Dishnetwork in Canada. Who cares about if it takes money away from Bell or some other cable provider. The OP is looking for an actual criminal code offence with relation to paying for American satellite in Canada.

Its illegal, but I doubt anyone is going to come looking for your DirecTV dish anytime soon. It was moreso the grey market reseller business here in Canada that got nailed.

At one point you could call somebody up and have DirecTV or Dish installed for you, and the US address, billing, etc all taken care of for you.

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08
reply to scorpido

said by scorpido:

So anyone want to provide an answer to the op question. Is it illegal to subscribe to and pay for Direct TV or Dishnetwork in Canada. Who cares about if it takes money away from Bell or some other cable provider. The OP is looking for an actual criminal code offence with relation to paying for American satellite in Canada.

You cannot subscribe to an American television service with a Canadian address and or credit card.

scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1

There are a million ways to still subscribe. If you have family in the states or just buy a post office box.


bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
reply to Spike

said by Spike:

said by bt:

Sim-subs, yes. Cheaper, not too likely. Canadian broadcast networks are still free to carry for the cable/satellite companies, US networks aren't.

I don't see how thats even relevant when the so-called "Canadian broadcast networks" ARE the BDU's.

Separate arms of the same parent company. It's all shuffling money around on paper... until it's used as a justification to bill the customer for it.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
Reviews:
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reply to scorpido

said by scorpido:

Is it illegal to subscribe to and pay for Direct TV or Dishnetwork in Canada.

Yes, it is illegal.

The Radiocommunication Act Section 9(1)(c): "No person shall…decode an encrypted subscription programming signal or encrypted network feed otherwise than under and in accordance with an authorization from the lawful distributor of the signal or feed"

The Supreme Court determined (in 2002, this isn't recent) that US Satellite TV providers are not "lawful distributors" in Canada under the act, therefore there is no one who can actually authorize you to decode a US sourced satellite signal in Canada.

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08
reply to scorpido

said by scorpido:

There are a million ways to still subscribe. If you have family in the states or just buy a post office box.

Illegally leaching off a family members account is illegal.

If your not an American living in america you cannot legaly have american tv service.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Start Communicat..

said by OHSrob:

If your not an American living in america you cannot legaly have american tv service.

Pretty sure you can be any nationality, as long as you're living there...


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
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reply to OHSrob

said by OHSrob:

Illegally leaching off a family members account is illegal.

Leaching is probably a violation of their ToS but not illegal per Se, there are also technical obstacles to getting service from Canada.

said by OHSrob:

If your not an American living in America you cannot legally have American tv service.

All broadcasts in Canada have to be approved/mandated by the CRTC, so the obstacle here is Canadian law, irrespective of your citizenship status.
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have

DanteX

join:2010-09-09
kudos:1
Reviews:
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reply to johnkim

Yes but we all know that the CRTC does little to actually make sure the consumer gets what they want so why should we abide by laws that do not benefit the consumer but benefit Corporations such as Bell over consumers.

I see little value in Canadian TV services



rob23234

@cnrl.com
reply to bt

agreed, I am Canadian and spend 2 months a year in the U.S.

I signed up no problem (had to pay a deposit sans-ssn), and even used autopay with my Canadian CC ..(called RBC and added my US address as a secondary long ago)


eeeaddict

join:2010-02-14
reply to johnkim

what if your an american who is visiting family and you bring over your own equipment (legally subscribed of course) and use it at a canadian address for like 1 month? What would that be considered as?


ZZink

join:2002-06-16
Etobicoke
reply to johnkim

Why Dish? The Interwebz has everything... faster... better... unless you're on rebelus and gotta watch your bandwidth.



WhaleOilBee
What a long strange trip it's been

join:2011-08-02
Manotick, ON
reply to johnkim

I was born in the United States. This law denies me my cultural heritage. Think it will fly?