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bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to Spike

Re: DTV illegal in Canada? What is the legal justification?

said by Spike:

said by bt:

Sim-subs, yes. Cheaper, not too likely. Canadian broadcast networks are still free to carry for the cable/satellite companies, US networks aren't.

I don't see how thats even relevant when the so-called "Canadian broadcast networks" ARE the BDU's.

Separate arms of the same parent company. It's all shuffling money around on paper... until it's used as a justification to bill the customer for it.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to scorpido

said by scorpido:

Is it illegal to subscribe to and pay for Direct TV or Dishnetwork in Canada.

Yes, it is illegal.

The Radiocommunication Act Section 9(1)(c): "No person shall…decode an encrypted subscription programming signal or encrypted network feed otherwise than under and in accordance with an authorization from the lawful distributor of the signal or feed"

The Supreme Court determined (in 2002, this isn't recent) that US Satellite TV providers are not "lawful distributors" in Canada under the act, therefore there is no one who can actually authorize you to decode a US sourced satellite signal in Canada.

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08
reply to scorpido

said by scorpido:

There are a million ways to still subscribe. If you have family in the states or just buy a post office box.

Illegally leaching off a family members account is illegal.

If your not an American living in america you cannot legaly have american tv service.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1

said by OHSrob:

If your not an American living in america you cannot legaly have american tv service.

Pretty sure you can be any nationality, as long as you're living there...


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
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Etobicoke, ON
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reply to OHSrob

said by OHSrob:

Illegally leaching off a family members account is illegal.

Leaching is probably a violation of their ToS but not illegal per Se, there are also technical obstacles to getting service from Canada.

said by OHSrob:

If your not an American living in America you cannot legally have American tv service.

All broadcasts in Canada have to be approved/mandated by the CRTC, so the obstacle here is Canadian law, irrespective of your citizenship status.
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have

DanteX

join:2010-09-09
kudos:1
reply to johnkim

Yes but we all know that the CRTC does little to actually make sure the consumer gets what they want so why should we abide by laws that do not benefit the consumer but benefit Corporations such as Bell over consumers.

I see little value in Canadian TV services



rob23234

@cnrl.com
reply to bt

agreed, I am Canadian and spend 2 months a year in the U.S.

I signed up no problem (had to pay a deposit sans-ssn), and even used autopay with my Canadian CC ..(called RBC and added my US address as a secondary long ago)


eeeaddict

join:2010-02-14
reply to johnkim

what if your an american who is visiting family and you bring over your own equipment (legally subscribed of course) and use it at a canadian address for like 1 month? What would that be considered as?


ZZink

join:2002-06-16
Etobicoke
reply to johnkim

Why Dish? The Interwebz has everything... faster... better... unless you're on rebelus and gotta watch your bandwidth.



WhaleOilBee
What a long strange trip it's been

join:2011-08-02
Manotick, ON
reply to johnkim

I was born in the United States. This law denies me my cultural heritage. Think it will fly?



nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON

said by WhaleOilBee:

I was born in the United States. This law denies me my cultural heritage. Think it will fly?

...You're free to go back to the US . That's what will fly....

It sucks...but this is a really really OLD topic....It was good times in the 90s though....remember when IPGs were the BIG THING?....I remember being able to cycle through my friends DirecTV sub and seeing what is on....that was pretty amazing....now its like bleh...

As others have said, there are ways around it...you have to put in the time and homework, and I'm pretty sure nobody's going to call you out on it...

They're not licensed as BDUs in Canada so therefore services cannot be offered....you have to be a BDU to offer service....

To the poster who said Cable co's pay the US networks for service, that's completely false...

Cable co X (usually Shaw through what they used to call Cancom) pulls in that signal OTA from somewhere near the US border, uplinks it to their satellite and then downlinks it back to their Cable BDU's, or downlinks it to Shaw's centre in either Mississauga or Calgary I think, and then uplinks that US station back up to F1 or F2R or whatever bird is up there these days....and then your dish is pointed at it and pulls the signal back down....

Very mundane process, but that's how your OTA signal goes, Shaw doesn't directly pay the US broadcaster for this...simply the equipment required to do all this uplink/downlink and conversion...

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to OHSrob

said by OHSrob:

said by scorpido:

There are a million ways to still subscribe. If you have family in the states or just buy a post office box.

Illegally leaching off a family members account is illegal.

If your not an American living in america you cannot legaly have american tv service.

Thread from CanChat: »Satellite question


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom

The topic was pretty well covered, but one argument wasn't addressed - "if you pay for it, it can't be illegal." What about crystal meth? You have to pay for that too, but the forces of law and order might have some issues with you having any amount on your person
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1
reply to eeeaddict

said by eeeaddict:

what if your an american who is visiting family and you bring over your own equipment (legally subscribed of course) and use it at a canadian address for like 1 month? What would that be considered as?

Illegal. I'd be absolutely shocked if anyone tried to pursue the matter, but technically someone could.

Also likely violating the TOS for using it at an address other than the one listed on the subscription, but that's a completely different issue.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by bt:

said by eeeaddict:

what if your an american who is visiting family and you bring over your own equipment (legally subscribed of course) and use it at a canadian address for like 1 month? What would that be considered as?

Illegal. I'd be absolutely shocked if anyone tried to pursue the matter, but technically someone could.

Also likely violating the TOS for using it at an address other than the one listed on the subscription, but that's a completely different issue.

So you are an American and have sat tv on your boat and you sail into Canada and dock. Somebody better call the Mounties quick to seize your gear cuz you're watching some American channel because, after all, the RCMP is just Robellus's private enforcers.

It's like the whole Canadians are crossing the border to take cheaper flights thing. If Air Canada gets their way it would be illegal for Canadians to take cheap US flights (like Robellus got on sat tv). Instead, the talk in the newspapers now is about finding a way to lower costs to Canadians. But that'll NEVER come to sat tv service discussions in Canada.

bt

join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1

1 edit

said by MaynardKrebs:

So you are an American and have sat tv on your boat and you sail into Canada and dock. Somebody better call the Mounties quick to seize your gear cuz you're watching some American channel because, after all, the RCMP is just Robellus's private enforcers.

Miss the part about nobody bothering to pursue it? Or just willingly ignoring it in the name of hysterics and hyperbole?

In other words, that won't happen. The police have more important things to deal with. Call 911 with something like that and you'd be more likely to get a fine for misuse of 911 services than they would be to send someone out. Call the non-emergency lines would, in the best case, result in a polite dismissal of your "concerns". Suggesting otherwise is just so over the top stupid it's incredible.

scorpido
Premium
join:2009-11-02
New Hamburg, ON
kudos:1

Im in Ontario, Canada and I have a dish net subscription. I could care less about Bell loosing money. Maybe once they offer something worth paying for i might buy Canadian but until then I will gladly pay dish network for 1080p hd broadcasts. I can get my local channel on otadtv.



El Quintron
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join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
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Reviews:
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FWIW:

My understanding is that the box updates either via internet or phone line, how are you getting around that?

Or are they still mailing cards to your US address?
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by El Quintron:

My understanding is that the box updates either via internet or phone line, how are you getting around that?

$1.50/month voip.ms US number call forwarded to a Canadian POTS line perhaps?


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
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Etobicoke, ON
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Reviews:
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said by MaynardKrebs:

$1.50/month voip.ms US number call forwarded to a Canadian POTS line perhaps?

I have a US address so It'd be super easy for me to do this, if that's all it takes.
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have


US_TV_ROCKS

@start.ca
reply to El Quintron

I have a dirctv subscription and updates are streamed via the satellite right to the box. No phone or internet required.
As it's already been stated, there are ways around that if it was required.

With respect to this topic: My "felony intemperance with a business model" doesn't really make me feel like a criminal. I could care less about Bell or Rogers. The CRTC and the Canadian government need to start respecting peoples rights to choose what they watch, read and listen to. They force Canadian content on us at every turn. A lot of it isn't worthy.
Open up the boarders and let the market sort it out. People will choose the better product and the better value. There is very little value in Canadian satellite and cable offerings.

Disclaimer: I also subscribe to Shaw Direct for the Canadian content that *I CHOOSE* to watch.


johnkim

join:2011-10-01
reply to FiReSTaRT

said by FiReSTaRT:

The topic was pretty well covered, but one argument wasn't addressed - "if you pay for it, it can't be illegal." What about crystal meth? You have to pay for that too, but the forces of law and order might have some issues with you having any amount on your person

I don't want to get into the debate of the drug policy but ask any normal person that you can go to jail if you subscribe to Dish/DTV (nasdaq symbol of directv), they will think it is insane.

Law should make sense and comply with what the society believes to be the acceptable behaviour.


DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
kudos:2

said by johnkim:

Law should make sense and comply with what the society believes to be the acceptable behaviour.

If nothing else, this thread tells you why things are the way they are. It is considered acceptable in Canada, mostly for copyright and licensing reasons, to not allow free access to American satellite signals. You can believe differently, but what you have is the way it is, for good and legitimate reasons.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care.


WhaleOilBee
What a long strange trip it's been

join:2011-08-02
Manotick, ON
Reviews:
·Acanac
reply to nitzguy

said by nitzguy:

...You're free to go back to the US . That's what will fly....

Please don't send me back, I promise to behave.

I wonder though, if I were some minority, and the government didn't allow me to watch programming from my former homeland if that would fly.

said by nitzguy:

Cable co X (usually Shaw through what they used to call Cancom) pulls in that signal OTA from somewhere near the US border, uplinks it to their satellite and then downlinks it back to their Cable BDU's, or downlinks it to Shaw's centre in either Mississauga or Calgary I think, and then uplinks that US station back up to F1 or F2R or whatever bird is up there these days....and then your dish is pointed at it and pulls the signal back down....

Very mundane process, but that's how your OTA signal goes, Shaw doesn't directly pay the US broadcaster for this...simply the equipment required to do all this uplink/downlink and conversion...

Are you sure? That sounds pretty low-tech and would only work for OTA networks ( ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX,PBS ). How would they get CNN and the other premium US channels that aren't broadcast OTA if they didn't get a digital feed from the source network?


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON

said by WhaleOilBee:

said by nitzguy:

...You're free to go back to the US . That's what will fly....

Please don't send me back, I promise to behave.

I wonder though, if I were some minority, and the government didn't allow me to watch programming from my former homeland if that would fly.

said by nitzguy:

Cable co X (usually Shaw through what they used to call Cancom) pulls in that signal OTA from somewhere near the US border, uplinks it to their satellite and then downlinks it back to their Cable BDU's, or downlinks it to Shaw's centre in either Mississauga or Calgary I think, and then uplinks that US station back up to F1 or F2R or whatever bird is up there these days....and then your dish is pointed at it and pulls the signal back down....

Very mundane process, but that's how your OTA signal goes, Shaw doesn't directly pay the US broadcaster for this...simply the equipment required to do all this uplink/downlink and conversion...

Are you sure? That sounds pretty low-tech and would only work for OTA networks ( ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX,PBS ). How would they get CNN and the other premium US channels that aren't broadcast OTA if they didn't get a digital feed from the source network?

In regards to your first point...you'd only be able to argue if there was a channel that wasn't available that was only available in the US ...otherwise I think you might have a point...otherwise, there is probably a "Canadian equivalent"...

The process is 'low tech' ...similiar process for non-OTA channels....

CNN in Atlanta posts up to...ugh I can't remember the name of the Sattelite ...

The satellite in question is Galaxy 25. CNN at their uplink centre in Atlanta,GA, uplinks their broadcast signal to the Galaxy 25 satellite sitting at 93.1W in Geostationary orbit @ 0 degrees N. (CNN USA East feed in this instance).

Bell/Shaw Direct have dishes at their downlink/uplink headends that are pointed at 93.1W, and with appropriate equipment and dishes pull the signal down, do their magic with it, and then uplink it back to the appropriate Anik/Nimiq satellite....I'm not figuring where they are going as that's not important ...

Then your dish is pointed as those satellites, and that's how you pull it into your home....

Isn't technology wonderful? Before we had to use very old and not 100% reliable microwave technology.....not that satellites are 100% fool-proof themselves, mechanical failures and potential solar radiation can damage them and its not like you can send a service guy out to fix them....

CBC's nationwide network was via microwave signal back in the 50s I believe....maybe before that....different way of doing a similiar thing, except every 20km or so they'd have a microwave dish (which looks like a drum if you look at it from the side) and it would repeat and reconstitute the signal and send it to the next microwave tower and so on and so forth....they had to be on complete LOS though otherwise you lost the signal...which is why it made it difficult to bring across the country, especially in places with rugged terrain and with inaccessible hydro...

HTH

Ryan

HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet

join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON
kudos:5
reply to WhaleOilBee

said by WhaleOilBee:

Are you sure? That sounds pretty low-tech and would only work for OTA networks ( ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX,PBS ). How would they get CNN and the other premium US channels that aren't broadcast OTA if they didn't get a digital feed from the source network?

One of the major uplink sites is in McGregor, ON (just outside of Windsor). That's why you get Detroit stations like WDIV, WXYZ, WBJK, WWJ and WTVS in various parts of Canada. They just grab it OTA with an antenna and uplink it.
--
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battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to johnkim

"If one pays for it, how can you say it is illegal?"

Uh.. Do we really have to answer that question? If I pay for a bag of weed does that make it legal?
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.



El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
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join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
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said by battleop:

"If one pays for it, how can you say it is illegal?"

Uh.. Do we really have to answer that question? If I pay for a bag of weed does that make it legal?

Already mentionned upthread:

»Re: DTV illegal in Canada? What is the legal justification?

But thanks for coming out.
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Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

Please show me where this is mentioned ABOVE my reply. Not at the very bottom of the page...

Then again if it makes you feel superior that you have pointed out something that I have missed above my post then by all means continue to gloat.
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I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to battleop

said by battleop:

"If one pays for it, how can you say it is illegal?"

Uh.. Do we really have to answer that question? If I pay for a bag of weed does that make it legal?

I always pay for my politicians in cash ...... golfing is for amateurs.