elwoodbluesElwood Blues Premium Member join:2006-08-30 Somewhere in |
to LazMan
Re: Dalton's anti-smoking minions have had enough.said by LazMan:ALSO can't smoke in a vehicle if it's your workplace (truckers, heavy equipment operators, etc)...
This one I have huge issues with (and I don't smoke), I'm sitting in my crane 100's of feet in the air, and putting aside that they'll never catch me, who cares if I smoke in my cab? What I've said for years is that they are nibbling away at smoking (similar to Abortion in the US) ,while it's "legal", there are a myriad of rules and regulations to prevent you from doing so. The problem is not going to go away with preventing smoking in condos/workplace vehicles/ etc, nor if it's made illegal will it go away,you need to find away to help people wean off the nicotine addiction(not to mention the oral fixation), forcefully if need be. |
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peterboro (banned)Avatars are for posers join:2006-11-03 Peterborough, ON |
to Gone
said by Gone:said by LazMan:ALSO can't smoke in a vehicle if it's your workplace (truckers, heavy equipment operators, etc)... For what it's worth, this really doesn't stop them. Which is what they are going to do now if you watch the vid. |
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Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON |
Gone
Premium Member
2012-Oct-4 9:05 am
said by peterboro:Which is what they are going to do now if you watch the vid. Good luck to them, they'll need it. They can't be everywhere at once. |
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peterboro (banned)Avatars are for posers join:2006-11-03 Peterborough, ON |
to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues: What I've said for years is that they are nibbling away at smoking (similar to Abortion in the US) ,while it's "legal", there are a myriad of rules and regulations to prevent you from doing so. And they will use this against their next target as a precedent. So if your vice, hobby or any lifestyle choice isn't a target now it could be and they will look to their harassment of smokers as a template. |
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peterboro |
to Gone
said by Gone:said by peterboro:Which is what they are going to do now if you watch the vid. Good luck to them, they'll need it. They can't be everywhere at once. Neither can the police but if you are caught with the distracted driving or "street racing" /speeding BS be prepared to pay up. |
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Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON |
Gone
Premium Member
2012-Oct-4 9:09 am
said by peterboro:Neither can the police but if you are caught with the distracted driving or "street racing" /speeding BS be prepared to pay up. Yay Dalton! |
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to DKS
said by DKS:Given the cost of smoking to the health care system through complications, this is an effective preventative measure. Ever seen someone die of COPD? Bullshit, if this were for health reasons they'd ban smoking altogether. In Ontario "cracking down" or "environmentalism" means increasing more Liberal tax revenue. |
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peterboro (banned)Avatars are for posers join:2006-11-03 Peterborough, ON |
to Gone
said by Gone:said by peterboro:Neither can the police but if you are caught with the distracted driving or "street racing" /speeding BS be prepared to pay up. Yay Dalton! Just wait to you come into his cross hairs on some benign activity of your own. Might as well just move back into your parents house and let them decide what is the best way to live your life. |
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elwoodbluesElwood Blues Premium Member join:2006-08-30 Somewhere in |
to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:said by DKS:Given the cost of smoking to the health care system through complications, this is an effective preventative measure. Ever seen someone die of COPD? Bullshit, if this were for health reasons they'd ban smoking altogether. In Ontario "cracking down" or "environmentalism" means increasing more Liberal tax revenue. How does cracking down on smoking increase revenue? I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion. have you been studying the discredited laffer curve again? |
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peterboro (banned)Avatars are for posers join:2006-11-03 Peterborough, ON |
to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:said by DKS:Given the cost of smoking to the health care system through complications, this is an effective preventative measure. Ever seen someone die of COPD? Bullshit, if this were for health reasons they'd ban smoking altogether. In Ontario "cracking down" or "environmentalism" means increasing more Liberal tax revenue. This is more about the control freaks in our society deciding what is best for you. |
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Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON |
to peterboro
said by peterboro:Just wait to you come into his cross hairs on some benign activity of your own. Dude. I live in Fort Erie. I shouldn't need to say anything more than that. His history of tyranny against this town goes back to the first week he was in office. |
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peterboro (banned)Avatars are for posers join:2006-11-03 Peterborough, ON |
to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues: How does cracking down on smoking increase revenue? I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion. have you been studying the discredited laffer curve again? Lots of fines that's how. In reality they spend so much to fine and prosecute that the return isn't there and a substantial deficit in revenues occurs. Did you know that provincial prosecutors, who are paid to do these prosecutions, are being passed over in favour of private lawyers and all paid for by your health care levy? |
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Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON |
Gone
Premium Member
2012-Oct-4 9:25 am
Well, of course. A provincial prosecutor would be more likely to drop charges and/or significantly lower penalties in an effort to ensure that they had sufficient resources to handle their caseload of other more important things like health and safety violations, serious driving infractions, building code issues, etc. Special prosecutors, being paid by the job and/or the hour, have no such restrictions, and continue to make money no matter how long they drag a case - and god forbid we ever drop a smoking charge! |
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donoreo Premium Member join:2002-05-30 North York, ON |
to peterboro
said by peterboro:said by LazMan: Then make it illegal, already... Absolutely. Oh wait...all the self righteous hypocrites who support this would have their services cut and tax burden increased. Oh dear me...best to just get on their soapbox and decry the evil smokers yet pocket the largess from their purchases. I do not mind benefiting from their stupidity. |
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elwoodbluesElwood Blues Premium Member join:2006-08-30 Somewhere in |
to DKS
said by DKS:said by peterboro:said by DKS:Nope. It's across Ontario. The Medical Officers of Health are united on this one. Gone was referring to Dalton's support base. Of course the Medical Officers of Health are united when funds are raining down on their units , some with no oversight, from the MOH budget. . The next campaign will be to promote moderation in consuming alcohol. Thank you Tea Totaler DKS. Cigs are one thing, cutting off people's booze , now you are ready to entice a riot! |
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DKSDamn Kidney Stones
join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON |
to peterboro
said by peterboro:said by urbanriot:said by DKS:Given the cost of smoking to the health care system through complications, this is an effective preventative measure. Ever seen someone die of COPD? Bullshit, if this were for health reasons they'd ban smoking altogether. In Ontario "cracking down" or "environmentalism" means increasing more Liberal tax revenue. This is more about the control freaks in our society deciding what is best for you. Nope. It's about improving health, reducing costs to the community and society at large and making for a better community. Being a control freak has nothing to do with it. |
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DKS |
to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:said by DKS:Given the cost of smoking to the health care system through complications, this is an effective preventative measure. Ever seen someone die of COPD? Bullshit, if this were for health reasons they'd ban smoking altogether. In Ontario "cracking down" or "environmentalism" means increasing more Liberal tax revenue. Wrong. Prohibition doesn't work. Harm reduction and enforcement as a last resort does. |
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DKS |
to peterboro
said by peterboro:said by DKS: Given the cost of smoking to the health care system through complications, this is an effective preventative measure. Ever seen someone die of COPD? It's cost effective to blow millions of health care dollars chasing people smoking in their workplace when there are other initiatives being starved for funding at the MOH and health units? The cost isn't in the "millions". It is just part of existing workplace health enforcement. Never seen a COPD death but I can imagine it is horrible. I have on the other hand been exposed to the overzealous actions of health unit minions under the legislative umbrella of the Smoke Free Ontario Act with a large budget to pummel citizens with punitive enforcement actions. Death by COPD is far, far worse. |
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DKS |
to LazMan
said by LazMan:Where exactly IS is OK to smoke now?
Can't smoke in public places. You certainly can. Parks, sidewalks and so on. Can't smoke at work. Can't smoke outside (there's entire blocks in Toronto where you can't get the required 9m away from a door) Employers right to a healthy workplace. Can't smoke in your car/truck. As long as you don't have kids with you, you can. You can smoke in your own home,. That was one condo exception. |
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DKS |
to peterboro
said by peterboro: But..but..but alcohol probably causes as much or more death, injury and expense to the health care system so start clamping down on it like cigarettes. Oh, that's right, it's enjoyed by far more of society and would be harder to demonize those who drink even moderately. Just wait about 6 months. |
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elwoodbluesElwood Blues Premium Member join:2006-08-30 Somewhere in |
to DKS
said by DKS:said by LazMan:Where exactly IS is OK to smoke now?
Can't smoke in public places. You certainly can. Parks, sidewalks and so on. And tomorrow, you won't be able to smoke within x meters of kids. So of like Harper's Anti drug laws where you get a bigger penalty of you smoke near kids (the next backyard for example). |
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DKSDamn Kidney Stones
join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON |
to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:Thank you Tea Totaler DKS. Cigs are one thing, cutting off people's booze , now you are ready to entice a riot! I said MODERATION, not prohibition. |
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elwoodbluesElwood Blues Premium Member join:2006-08-30 Somewhere in |
Define "Moderation".
Does Dalton increase taxes on booze in the name of "Social Responsibility". Does Dalton curtail the hours of the LCBO to make it harder to get booze. Does Dalton shut down the Wine Stores? |
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to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:How does cracking down on smoking increase revenue? I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion. have you been studying the discredited laffer curve again? No, since I don't sit around and smoke weed all day and work for a living, my brain works well enough to know "this is how society works". Let me connect the dots as simply as possible... Fining people = collecting revenue = ...collecting revenue. Yea, I don't know how that wasn't simple to begin with. We also keep those tobacco police employed as well, so that's good. More government jobs and more revenue by fining people in private areas. A truck driver doing a long haul from Florida thinks he can drive into our country and have a smoke while he drive? Hah, cash cow right there. |
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LazMan Premium Member join:2003-03-26 Beverly Hills, CA |
LazMan to DKS
Premium Member
2012-Oct-4 10:10 am
to DKS
said by DKS:said by LazMan:Where exactly IS is OK to smoke now?
Can't smoke in public places. You certainly can. Parks, sidewalks and so on. Nope... » www.hamilton.ca/Healthan ··· aces.htmCan't smoke in your car/truck. As long as you don't have kids with you, you can. Or if it's your 'workplace' You can smoke in your own home,. That was one condo exception. And, as I said - it will be the first, (if it is?) - not the last... |
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to LazMan
said by LazMan:ALSO can't smoke in a vehicle if it's your workplace (truckers, heavy equipment operators, etc)... I'll be completely honest in saying that the first time an Owner/Operator gets fined under this law, you'll likely see the driver, the OTA and the CTA taking the province to court. I can understand the law in the case where the driver shares the vehicle with other employees but an Owner/Operator owns the vehicle and it is as much their personal vehicle as it is their work vehicle. |
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DKSDamn Kidney Stones
join:2001-03-22 Owen Sound, ON |
to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:Define "Moderation".
Does Dalton increase taxes on booze in the name of "Social Responsibility". Does Dalton curtail the hours of the LCBO to make it harder to get booze. Does Dalton shut down the Wine Stores? Nope. Those aren't on the radar. Sin taxes are a revenue matter, not a health matter. Moderation means developing a culture where binge drinking is strongly discouraged, among other things. |
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donoreo Premium Member join:2002-05-30 North York, ON |
to Robrr
said by Robrr:said by LazMan:ALSO can't smoke in a vehicle if it's your workplace (truckers, heavy equipment operators, etc)... I'll be completely honest in saying that the first time an Owner/Operator gets fined under this law, you'll likely see the driver, the OTA and the CTA taking the province to court. I can understand the law in the case where the driver shares the vehicle with other employees but an Owner/Operator owns the vehicle and it is as much their personal vehicle as it is their work vehicle. I am pretty sure it has happened. I am not sure there has been an outcome. |
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LazMan Premium Member join:2003-03-26 Beverly Hills, CA |
to Robrr
said by Robrr:said by LazMan:ALSO can't smoke in a vehicle if it's your workplace (truckers, heavy equipment operators, etc)... I'll be completely honest in saying that the first time an Owner/Operator gets fined under this law, you'll likely see the driver, the OTA and the CTA taking the province to court. I can understand the law in the case where the driver shares the vehicle with other employees but an Owner/Operator owns the vehicle and it is as much their personal vehicle as it is their work vehicle. » www.driving.ca/Truckers+ ··· ory.htmlYou're about 2 years too late... Been there, done that... Bought a $305 t-shirt... |
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elwoodbluesElwood Blues Premium Member join:2006-08-30 Somewhere in |
to DKS
said by DKS:said by elwoodblues:Define "Moderation".
Does Dalton increase taxes on booze in the name of "Social Responsibility". Does Dalton curtail the hours of the LCBO to make it harder to get booze. Does Dalton shut down the Wine Stores? Nope. Those aren't on the radar. Sin taxes are a revenue matter, not a health matter. Moderation means developing a culture where binge drinking is strongly discouraged, among other things. BUT DKS,you've hit the nail on the head, Moderation leads to less revenue, and thus has to be made up elsewhere. |
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