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Kardinal
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reply to vue666

Re: Canadian comes home from Guantanamo

said by vue666:

That is not evidence torture was used on Khadr...

Once again, where is the evidence Khadr was tortured?

The standard of evidence that he was tortured is exactly the same as the one that was used to provide evidence that he was the one that killed the US medic -- it's all "classified" and has not been released to the public. You and others blindly believe that he *must* be guilty because you want to, yet at the same time demand the sort of burden of proof evidence that was sorely lacking in the "conviction" (that was no such thing, even after 8 years of trying by the US government) to show that he was tortured when any sane mind would realize that the stories that have come out about what went on at Gitmo would not have been isolated incidents of one or two detainees when the system was set up to do it for all of them.

You believe one story and deny another for exactly the same standard of evidence: it's convenient to your way of thinking.
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vue666
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said by Kardinal:
You believe one story and deny another for exactly the same standard of evidence: it's convenient to your way of thinking.

As do you...

The difference being I quote a judge. You quote a blog...


Kardinal
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said by vue666:

As do you...

You see no difference between the evidence presented as to what has gone on at Gitmo and a claim that couldn't produce a charge in 8 years of trying? That speaks volumes.

.....back on track, yet again.......

Khadr is in Millhaven assessment facility, but I'll be curious to see where he gets sent. In the past, it would have been the Kingston Pen if he was considered to be "the worst of the worst", but since that facility is now closing it would be Millhaven for max or Collins Bay/Warkworth/Joyceville/Bath for medium security if they keep him in province.
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Anav
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reply to vue666
Wow, didnt know judges were gods.
So pray tell, please tell me the name of the Canadian judge your quoting.


vue666
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I thought we were talking about Guantanamo? And I wasn't aware of any Canadian Judges having jurisdiction over an US Military base....

As far as being gods, they are at the top of the food chain when it comes to the court room....

booj

join:2011-02-07
Richmond, ON
said by vue666:

I thought we were talking about Guantanamo? And I wasn't aware of any Canadian Judges having jurisdiction over an US Military base....

As far as being gods, they are at the top of the food chain when it comes to the court room....

Seeing as the US had to invent a new court and new laws to try and convict Kahdr I don't see why you put any faith into it.


vue666
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reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:

said by vue666:

As do you...

You see no difference between the evidence presented as to what has gone on at Gitmo and a claim that couldn't produce a charge in 8 years of trying? That speaks volumes.

.....back on track, yet again.......

Khadr is in Millhaven assessment facility, but I'll be curious to see where he gets sent. In the past, it would have been the Kingston Pen if he was considered to be "the worst of the worst", but since that facility is now closing it would be Millhaven for max or Collins Bay/Warkworth/Joyceville/Bath for medium security if they keep him in province.

Sorry but that is circumstantial evidence and not direct evidence. Now kindly cite the names of the guards who tortured Khadr or a credible source who witnessed the torture of Khadr.....otherwise it is only speculation...

booj

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said by vue666:

Sorry but that is circumstantial evidence and not direct evidence. Now kindly cite the names of the guards who tortured Khadr or a credible source who witnessed the torture of Khadr.....otherwise it is only speculation...

I'm curious what kind of "direct evidence" you expect from a court that states:
quote:
Before covering a military commission at Guantanamo Bay, reporters must agree to several ground rules about what they can publish and what they must withhold from the public.
But if you need names, how about Joshua Claus? The US booted reporters from the Guantanmo trial for naming this guard, who testified he only threatened Khadr with rape when in custody.

»www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/05/06/9···_popular

Before you accuse me of not trusting a soldier, this same guard was court-martialed for abusing prisoners in Afghanistan in 2002, and served 5 months. Details were not disclosed. This criminal's testimony was accepted wholeheartedly in Khadr's trial.


Anav
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reply to vue666
said by vue666:

I thought we were talking about Guantanamo? And I wasn't aware of any Canadian Judges having jurisdiction over an US Military base....

As far as being gods, they are at the top of the food chain when it comes to the court room....

Hah jurisdiction totally fabricated .... did you not read that there was no US jurisdiction frig its like talking to a brick wall.

Im sure you would be in equal awe facing a judge in Syria, or Iran, or Russia, or China or Cuba LOL. I believe they all have something in common - refused to sign anti landmine treaty LOL. Wait, that was the Ottawa Land Mine Treaty. Thus anybody not signing it heck theyre committing treason.
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vue666
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Col. Patrick Parrish, the judge presiding over Omar Khadr's military trial....

»www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2010···020.html

quote:
"There is no credible evidence the accused was ever tortured … even using a liberal interpretation considering the accused's age," Parrish wrote.



Anav
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So whats your point. That you blindly give allegiance to an American Col over a Canadian Citizen, presiding over a kangeroo court that was stood up outside the US to avoid US jurisdiction and civilized legal rules. Pretty sad if you ask me.

Oh if your going to quote gods as though somehow their gospel..
G.W. Bush the Commander in Chief.....

WMD Quotes Before & After The Invasion

Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.
Dick Cheney
August 26, 2002

Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.
George W. Bush
September 12, 2002

If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world.
Ari Fleischer
December 2, 2002

The president of the United States and the secretary of defense would not assert as plainly and bluntly as they have that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction if it was not true, and if they did not have a solid basis for saying it.
Ari Fleischer December 6, 2002

We know for a fact that there are weapons there.
Ari Fleischer January 9, 2003

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.
George W. Bush
January 28, 2003

We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more.
Colin Powell
February 5, 2003

We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.
George W. Bush
February 8, 2003

So has the strategic decision been made to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction by the leadership in Baghdad? . . . I think our judgment has to be clearly not.
Colin Powell
March 7, 2003

We believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.
Vice President Dick Chaney
March 16, 2003

Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.
George W. Bush
March 17, 2003

Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly . . . all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes.
Ari Fleisher
March 21, 2003

There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. And . . . as this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them.
Gen. Tommy Franks
March 22, 2003

I have no doubt we're going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction.
Defense Policy Board member Kenneth Adelman
March 23, 2003

One of our top objectives is to find and destroy the WMD. There are a number of sites.
Pentagon Spokeswoman Victoria Clark
March 22, 2003

We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
Donald Rumsfeld
March 30, 2003

Obviously the administration intends to publicize all the weapons of mass destruction U.S. forces find -- and there will be plenty.
Neocon scholar Robert Kagan
April 9, 2003

I think you have always heard, and you continue to hear from officials, a measure of high confidence that, indeed, the weapons of mass destruction will be found.
Ari Fleischer
April 10, 2003

We are learning more as we interrogate or have discussions with Iraqi scientists and people within the Iraqi structure, that perhaps he destroyed some, perhaps he dispersed some. And so we will find them.
George W. Bush
April 24, 2003

There are people who in large measure have information that we need . . . so that we can track down the weapons of mass destruction in that country.
Donald Rumsfeld
April 25, 2003

We'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so.
George W. Bush
May 3, 2003

I'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there and the evidence will be forthcoming. We're just getting it just now.
Colin Powell
May 4, 2003

We never believed that we'd just tumble over weapons of mass destruction in that country.
Donald Rumsfeld
May 4, 2003

I'm not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein -- because he had a weapons program.
George W. Bush
May 6, 2003

U.S. officials never expected that "we were going to open garages and find" weapons of mass destruction.
Condoleeza Rice
May 12, 2003

I just don't know whether it was all destroyed years ago -- I mean, there's no question that there were chemical weapons years ago -- whether they were destroyed right before the war, (or) whether they're still hidden.
Maj. Gen. David Petraeus, Commander 101st Airborne
May 13, 2003

I don't believe anyone that I know in the administration ever said that Iraq had nuclear weapons.
Donald Rumsfeld,
May 14, 2003

Before the war, there's no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical. I expected them to be found. I still expect them to be found.
Gen. Michael Hagee, Commandant of the Marine Corps
May 21, 2003

Given time, given the number of prisoners now that we're interrogating, I'm confident that we're going to find weapons of mass destruction.
Gen. Richard Myers, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff
May 26, 2003

They may have had time to destroy them, and I don't know the answer.
Donald Rumsfeld
May 27, 2003

For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on.
Paul Wolfowitz
May 28, 2003

It was a surprise to me then — it remains a surprise to me now — that we have not uncovered weapons, as you say, in some of the forward dispersal sites. Believe me, it's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there.

Lt. Gen. James Conway, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force
May 30, 2003


Suggest you sit down and read two things.

(1) »www.cia.gov/library/reports/gene···dex.html

(2) the book 1984

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vue666
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Nice wall of text that shows you are merely grasping at straws. And whether there are WMD in Iraq or not has no relevance as to the innocence or guilt of Omar Khadr... Whether he was tortured or not...

I would ask what are Canadian citizens (the Khadr family) doing in an Al Qaeda terrorist camp...

And as Ian has previously posted....

said by Ian:

said by MaynardKrebs:

But that he was hauled halfway around the world, tortured, and effectively forced to confess under duress, that's a different matter entirely.

Or not.

"Following the Hearing, the military judge ruled that there was no credible evidence that Khadr had ever been tortured as alleged, and that his confession was gained after it came to light that Americans had discovered a videotape of Khadr and others making IED's."

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khadr···_note-80

Want to argue that the US judge ruled unfairly? Sure. I wasn't there. Can't say for sure. Nor, do I suspect, were you.



Anav
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I guess I see very little different between an Al Queda Training Camp, where they simulated their craft, and the Guantanomo Bay Camp where they actually conducted their craft.
I find both using cowardly methods.
I find both illegal
I find both contravene the geneva convention.
I find both do not conform to Canadian Values.

I find it despicable that you support one of them.
The difference is I support neither.
You may have the right to support one of them and state it but that does not mean I have to respect you for it.

Furthermore I find it appalling that you would find it OKAY that a canadian citizen was illegally detained and put on a joke-trial, be it Amars Rendition (illegal kidnapping) by the US to be tried (tortured) in Syria, or other instances of mock injustice, such as Khadr. (not to be confused with idiots that try to smuggle drugs or pedophiles etc).

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vue666
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1 edit
Wow...now you're really clutching at straws, name calling and personal insults was bad enough BUT now putting words into my mouth...

Where did I say I supported anything. Please post my exact post.

My concern is with the Khadr families involvement with Al Qaeda, being at a terrorist training camp...I'm in agreement with Wolfie's earlier post.

said by Wolfie00:

said by hm :

He is still a Canadian with constitutional rights.

What about the constitutional rights of 34,934,792 other Canadians? Those who might prefer not to have in their midst a convicted terrorist and acknowledged al Qaeda supporter brought up with a potentially incorrigible hatred for the West?

You simply have no comprehension of the world we live in today....

PS: I've read 1984 and Animal Farm. They were nice reads but do not prove or disprove the guilt or innocence of Omar or the Khadr family...


Ian
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reply to Anav
said by Anav:

I guess I see very little different between an Al Queda Training Camp, where they simulated their craft, and the Guantanomo Bay Camp where they actually conducted

....
I find both do not conform to Canadian Values.

OK, But, the former one DID conform to Omar Khadr's values despite his being Canadian by mere geographical happen-stance. And at several they taught Khadr to be a proper Al Queda terrorist. He learned his lessons well, apparently.

The latter is not a Canadian institution; Never was, continues to not be.
said by Anav:

Furthermore I find it appalling that you would find it OKAY that a canadian citizen was illegally detained and put on a joke-trial...

Would that be how you'd characterize Khadr's "punishment" to Tabitha Speers, widow of Christopher Speers, the army medic murdered by Khadr? A medic, who, six days before being murdered by Omar Khadr, risked his life to save two Afghani children trapped in a minefield?

How about to the two kids, now without a father, left by Omar Khadr? Think you could look any of them in the eye and say Khadr's treatment was "unjust"?
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Anav
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I hear you Ian, we dont know all the facts, in fact its hard to make any sort of judgement based on how the whole thing transpired. If they had tried Khadr as a juvenile in a proper court of law, as per our system or standard US system, then I would not be arguing about process. There are lots of people-families in Canada that may have similar sentiments you descibe, but they are still here, so its not illegal to harbour ill will, however its illegal to carry out criminal activities.
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vue666
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2 edits
Interesting article by MacLeans.... the article reports while in Guantánamo Bay Omar played basketball & soccer, watched tv, got special comfort socks, acne cream, extra juices & salads in his lunch, learned literature and high school equivalency courses...

Yup, sounds a lot like the dark dungeons of the middle ages....

»www2.macleans.ca/2012/10/04/into···unknown/

quote:
About a boy, now man, who blames everyone else for his lot in life—except the extremist father who sent him into battle in the first place.



Kardinal
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said by vue666:

Interesting article by MacLeans.... the article reports while in Guantánamo Bay Omar played basketball & soccer, watched tv, got special comfort socks, acne cream, extra juices & salads in his lunch, learned literature and high school equivalency courses...

It's also the place where we got images like this:






Now, do we know which prisoners got which treatment? No, we don't. Does anyone think that one that they spent 8 years trying to charge and get a confession/statement from got to play soccer, extra food and TV? Or would it be more of the sensory deprivation and physical tiring/forced action type of treatment (all of which depend on where you draw the line on what is torture and what isn't)? Answer honestly.

Let's keep in mind that the "due process" was the kangaroo court in Gitmo which had some pretty strong international condemnation, like this one from one of the US allies in Iraq and Afghanistan (specifically, from a sitting judge in the UK):

said by this article :

One of Britain's most senior judges condemned the American courts last night for a "monstrous failure of justice" by refusing to rule on the claims of Taliban suspects held without trial at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

Lord Steyn, a serving law lord, said the United States was acting illegally by holding the men without trial since their transfer from Afghanistan early last year.

"By denying the prisoners the right to raise challenges in a court about their alleged status and treatment, the United States government is in breach of the minimum standards of customary international law," he said.

Wow, that sounds like a fair trial with an unbiased system and judge who would look at everything fairly and without prejudice.

From the same cbc.ca article quoted above:

Threats of gang rape did not prompt Omar Khadr to make any self-incriminating statements and no evidence exists that the Canadian citizen was tortured, the military judge in his Guantanamo Bay war-crimes trial said in a decision released Friday.

Translation: "At the time, our government considered waterboarding to be an interrogation technique, so it wasn't technically torture, nor were threats of gang rape torture because we decided those are just intimidation techniques to get what we want, just like the sensory deprivation and physical fatigue 'techniques' we used".

"While the accused was 15 years old at the time he was captured, he was not immature for his age," Parrish said. "The accused had sufficient training, education and experience to understand the circumstances in which he found himself."

Translation: "He's a child soldier, as defined by the international agreement, but we've decided that he was an adult and took our view of right/wrong regardless of circumstance or upbringing because we have more might and might makes right."

The judge took a dim view of Khadr's affidavit in which he alleges abuse and mistreatment, especially given that the accused chose not to take the stand and be cross-examined on it.

Translation: "You didn't let me rip you after you'd been softened up by our prison tactics, so I'm going to summarily dismiss any claim."
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vue666
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reply to Anav
said by Anav See Profile
Furthermore I find it appalling that you would find it OKAY that a canadian citizen was illegally detained and put on a joke-trial, be it Amars Rendition (illegal kidnapping) by the US to be tried (tortured) in Syria, or other instances of mock injustice, such as Khadr. (not to be confused with idiots that try to smuggle drugs or pedophiles etc).
[/QUOTE :

Please post the exact quote where I alleged the above... Or kindly apologize. My concern has always been the Khadrs very close ties to Bin Laden and what the hell where they doing at an Al Qaeda terrorist camp...

I've alleged that their actions could be considered treason. You've alleged Omar has been tortured.

I've let the name calling and insulting pass... Now I am asking you to reference my post where I said torture or kidnapping was OK...

You will not comply because I did not make any such claims... now who is having a problem connecting the dots?


vue666
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reply to Kardinal
said by Kardinal:
Translation: "He's a child soldier, as defined by the international agreement, but we've decided that he was an adult and took our view of right/wrong regardless of circumstance or upbringing because we have more might and might makes right."

But I thought there was doubt that this was a war? So soldier does not qualify...

Also I maybe wrong but I thought one of the prerequisites for being a soldier was belonging to a recognized military organization. My understanding is Al Qaeda is NOT a military organization but a terrorist group and or possibly a criminal organization...

I also thought Child Soldiers were made to turn against their parents by their captives and part of the brainwashing was killing their father and raping their mother. I thought Khadr was under the control of his father when he joined Al Qaeda?

So kindly enlighten me the 14-16 year old boys who fought for Canada and allies in WWI or WWII would they then be considered Child Soldiers?


urbanriot
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said by vue666:

But I thought there was doubt that this was a war? So soldier does not qualify...

Also I maybe wrong but I thought one of the prerequisites for being a soldier was belonging to a recognized military organization. My understanding is Al Qaeda is NOT a military organization but a terrorist group and or possible a criminal organization...

Well, there is the "war on terror"...

MaynardKrebs
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said by urbanriot:

Well, there is the "war on terror"...

You mean the "War based on factual errors", don't you?

I can understand the US going into Afghanistan after Al Queda.
I can even understand installing a non-Taliban government.
In fact, even a lot of the Arab countries were sympathetic at the time to those goals.

But the US, in its typically heavy and ham-fisted way is probably not going to achieve any long term security because the 'War on Terror' also included the invasion of Iraq. And there is long-term resentment of that in the Arab/Muslim world.

In addition to more than 32,000 U.S. soldiers wounded in Iraq, that 'war' killed over 4400 U.S. soldiers, according to Icasualties.org, not to mention more than 104,000 Iraqi civilian casualties, according to Iraqbodycount.org.

To-date, the Iraq war alone cost the US about $1 trillion so far, and counting.
The US could have agreed to keep a thousand more UN weapons inspectors running around Iraq 24/7 for about $1 billion/year. And they could have placed a $1B bounty on Saddam's head - I'm certain somebody would have claimed it right quick.

peterboro
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reply to vue666
said by vue666:

So kindly enlighten me the 14-16 year old boys who fought for Canada and allies in WWI or WWII would they then be considered Child Soldiers?

14-16 are not boys nor children but young men. For thousands of years 14 and up year old young men have been the head of the household at the passing of their father or elders.

Why do you people keep bringing up the child label??????? he was not a child!

Wasn't one one of his brothers arrested in Canada for being an alleged child molester?


Anav
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said by peterboro:

said by vue666:

So kindly enlighten me the 14-16 year old boys who fought for Canada and allies in WWI or WWII would they then be considered Child Soldiers?

14-16 are not boys nor children but young men. For thousands of years 14 and up year old young men have been the head of the household at the passing of their father or elders.

Why do you people keep bringing up the child label??????? he was not a child!

Hahahaha my side it hurts, Hohohohoho..... great. Now your rewriting our laws and to boot want to live in the past, gee when women didnt vote and evisceration was acceptable punishment.

I didnt realize that there were yougins in the war but heck they lied during conscription and some got in. Didnt read about 14 yr olds but 15-17. I note the army if found out sent them back and or were taken back by parents when they found out what transpired. Cant fault them, keen to defending Canada from terrorist Nazis. At least vue was referencing factual material about the Canadian soldiers, wherease your wild-assed opinions although dead wrong and completely out of context are very amusing
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vue666
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4 edits
Again you prefer to hurl insults which just shows your lack of knowledge... Here are 6 Canadian service men who enlisted prior to WWII. All 6 were uinder the age of 13... The source Paul Hellyer. You do know who he is, right?

quote:
Reporting on an exchange during a parliamentary question period 26 November 1965, the Canadian Press issued a news release on Canadian pre-teen soldiers; that is, they were not yet teenagers. The Minister of Defence of the day, Paul Hellyer, explained the case.
"They enrolled under age," he said. Well, of course they did; that much was obvious. He meant 'enlist', of course. One enrolls for a course of instruction, but enlists for military service. He gave the names of six servicemen, all under 13 when they enlisted between 1936 and 1939. Each one had made a statutory statement to this effect. Hellyer identified the men as Wing Commander W. Taylor, Flt. Sgt. J. C. Baker, Col. W. M. Alton, Maj. R. Hampton, Sgt D. O. Hoskis and Flt. Sgt C. F. Page.


»www.achart.ca/articles/publicati···iers.htm

And once more I shall request you post where you allege I approved of torture and kidnapping...

quote:
I find it despicable that you support one of them.
The difference is I support neither.
You may have the right to support one of them and state it but that does not mean I have to respect you for it.

Furthermore I find it appalling that you would find it OKAY that a canadian citizen was illegally detained and put on a joke-trial, be it Amars Rendition (illegal kidnapping) by the US to be tried (tortured) in Syria, or other instances of mock injustice, such as Khadr. (not to be confused with idiots that try to smuggle drugs or pedophiles etc).

How can I take anything at face value you post when your response is to insult and attribute words to me I never posted...

Now where did I post this?

Now kindly connect the dots as you say...

My grandfather, Mom's Dad enlisted in the army and fought at Vimy Ridge. He was 15.


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reply to Anav
said by Anav:

Now your rewriting our laws and to boot want to live in the past, gee when women didnt vote and evisceration was acceptable punishment.

Perhaps they should have tried them under Sharia Law. . . .out of respect for their "religious" views and wotnot.


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
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join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
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WHo is they, and who is them in your post Kalford. Not quite sure on your point and dont want to misinterpret your intent before I tear it to shreds.


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5
reply to vue666
Vue, you cannot read, so stop pretending.
If you will note in my post and I quote....

Didnt read about 14 yr olds but 15-17,

I am not saying there were not younger but the brief piece I read didnt mention them. Obviously if a 14 or 15 year old can fake entry its entirely plausable that a 12 or 13 year old did depending upon their physical maturity, thats not rocket science.
Not sure why you would belabour this point anyway.

Also I later on went to state (and my post was to petroburro) and I quote.........
"At least vue was referencing factual material about the Canadian soldiers"

So I was in fact agreeing with your Canadian boy soldier statments not hurling insults about them. There is nothing wrong with wanting to serve your country, tis noble. The fact is that they were not actively recruited either and if found out were taken out of the military again from the limited readings I have done.
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vue666
Small block Chevies rule
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join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
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In my link above Paul Hellyer lists 6 service men who enlisted at under the age of 13 ...

As far as not being able to read, your the one who posted I said something which I never did in this thread...

Prove me wrong and post my quote... I never said I approved of torture or kidnapping... How can I take anything you post at face value. If you made a mistake, then man up and apologize...

quote:
I find it despicable that you support one of them.
The difference is I support neither.
You may have the right to support one of them and state it but that does not mean I have to respect you for it.

Furthermore I find it appalling that you would find it OKAY that a canadian citizen was illegally detained and put on a joke-trial, be it Amars Rendition (illegal kidnapping) by the US to be tried (tortured) in Syria, or other instances of mock injustice, such as Khadr. (not to be confused with idiots that try to smuggle drugs or pedophiles etc).


What I do not support is the Khadr families involvement with Al Qaeda an organization that has declared it wants to destroy the west, which includes Canada...


Kalford
Seems To Be An Rtfm Problem.
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join:2001-03-20
Ontario
kudos:1
reply to Anav
As a welcome home present to Omar. . .the government should give the whole family a free trip to Afghanistan. . . .it would be just like a home coming reunion for them. . .complete with a stones concert, fashion show with the latest styles of belts and lots ' n ' lots of fireworks.

It's the least we could do after all the hardship they endured. Poor sods deserve a vacation.