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scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to JohnInSJ

Re: [rant] Dont they get it - its not just the hardware

said by JohnInSJ:

I am literally STUNNED that this is posted in a mac forum. Stunned.

I'm a long time Microsoft customer who has barely touched Apple products over the years, but I agree with the "lipstick on a pig" assessment. I know that Windows is rotten to the core, and while Microsoft may fix this or that with any given release, it's just really not in their DNA to be able to provide a quality, stable, secure OS.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

said by scross:

said by JohnInSJ:

I am literally STUNNED that this is posted in a mac forum. Stunned.

I know that Windows is rotten to the core

You "know" this how, exactly?
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to ptrowski

said by ptrowski:

I agree it's a matter of preference, that's why I find these threads funny. Person A says they love iOS and everything else sucks, usually without any first hand experience with the others. Person B says ios sucks, and so on.

Funny, I'm the one who usually points out that people who think Windows is a quality OS probably don't have enough experience with any other OS to be able to make that call. And then I get called all kinds of names for pointing that out. Hopefully you won't suffer the same fate!

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to JohnInSJ

said by JohnInSJ:

said by scross:

said by JohnInSJ:

I am literally STUNNED that this is posted in a mac forum. Stunned.

I know that Windows is rotten to the core

You "know" this how, exactly?

25+ years of experience working with it, by choice or necessity (including since before Windows 1.0 was even officially released), while also working with other operating systems that are far more stable and secure and reliable, with basically zero malware issues to boot. I'm not saying that later versions of Windows haven't made the situation somewhat better, but it's kind of like adding more nails or screws and layers of patch and paint on top of rotting wood - it may get the job done (barely), but you never know when it's going to collapse on you, so it just needs rebuilding from the ground up. But by the time Microsoft could possibly do this, the world will have moved on, as it is doing right now.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

So, when did you stop working with it? Do you work with it with UAC disabled?
--
My place : »www.schettino.us



Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
reply to scross

said by scross:

But by the time Microsoft could possibly do this, the world will have moved on, as it is doing right now.

By...continuing to buy the same products? Not sure what you're getting at here.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

said by Thaler:

said by scross:

But by the time Microsoft could possibly do this, the world will have moved on, as it is doing right now.

By...continuing to buy the same products? Not sure what you're getting at here.

Or what it has to do with iOS. Which hasn't changed significantly in 2 years (iOS4.2)
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to JohnInSJ

No, I continue to work with it (I'm working with it right now) because I generally have to out of necessity, plus I have several computers at home with various versions of it loaded. All of them have UAC running, if it applies to that version.

But ...

I got so tired of listening to my wife and daughter complain about this and that problem with their Windows boxes ("Honey, that's just Windows for you. Windows sucks - always has sucked, always will suck!"), and so tired of having to deal with the incessant patches and emergency updates and such (these were turning into a major time suck for me), that I told my wife that if she wanted to try a Mac then we could buy her one as a test. That was several months ago now, and I've barely heard a peep out of her concerning her MacBook Pro, which she loves so much. Now my daughter wants one, too, and I may not be too far behind myself. Although I would probably go more down the "dump Windows and go to Linux or Android" path myself, or maybe build a Hackintosh or something.


scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Thaler

said by Thaler:

By...continuing to buy the same products? Not sure what you're getting at here.

Mac, Android, Linux, etc. - ever heard of those?

Soon it will be true (if it isn't true already) that most people and organizations which continue to use Windows do so because they HAVE to for various reasons, not because they want to.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to JohnInSJ

said by JohnInSJ:

Or what it has to do with iOS. Which hasn't changed significantly in 2 years (iOS4.2)

Was there a question here?


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to scross

said by scross:

No, I continue to work with it (I'm working with it right now) because I generally have to out of necessity, plus I have several computers at home with various versions of it loaded. All of them have UAC running, if it applies to that version.

"if it applies to that version" - so they had problems with windows 7? What version? I am seriously asking, because there is a world of difference (core) between XP and 7. If 7, 32 or 64 bit?
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to scross

said by scross:

said by JohnInSJ:

Or what it has to do with iOS. Which hasn't changed significantly in 2 years (iOS4.2)

Was there a question here?

Yes, why are we talking about Windows desktop as if it is what would be running on a windows phone? WinPhones run on top of WinCE (pre win8) or WinRT (native ARM) for win8, and have nothing to do with Windows desktop OSes before 2012. It's like saying you're not going to get an iPhone because you found MacOS9 on your PowerPC to be horribly unstable.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to JohnInSJ

said by JohnInSJ:

"if it applies to that version" - so they had problems with windows 7? What version? I am seriously asking, because there is a world of difference (core) between XP and 7. If 7, 32 or 64 bit?

I am currently running a mix of XP, Vista, and 7 - mostly Vista, which was the first version to have UAC. I actually have Win7 upgrade disks for all of the non-Win7 boxes, but I haven't found Win7 to be superior enough for it to be worth my time and effort to do the upgrade on any of them. The odds of my voluntarily moving to Win8 are slim to none, too; I will probably choose a whole different path here.

And, no, there really isn't a "world of difference" between them - not from where I sit, anyway. They may have tweaked this or that, or replaced this or that, or recompiled this or that, but deep down inside it's the same old Windows, with the same old design flaws and the same old problems.

You know, folks, I've been married for a long time now. My relationship with Windows is kind of like a marriage that wasn't that great to begin with, where your spouse keeps saying they will change their miserable ways but they really never do. You can never trust them very far because they are always letting you down, but you end up staying together for a long time for the sake of the kids or whatever. At some point, though, you just have to say "Enough!" and end it already.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to JohnInSJ

said by JohnInSJ:

said by scross:

said by JohnInSJ:

Or what it has to do with iOS. Which hasn't changed significantly in 2 years (iOS4.2)

Was there a question here?

Yes, why are we talking about Windows desktop as if it is what would be running on a windows phone? WinPhones run on top of WinCE (pre win8) or WinRT (native ARM) for win8, and have nothing to do with Windows desktop OSes before 2012. It's like saying you're not going to get an iPhone because you found MacOS9 on your PowerPC to be horribly unstable.

Same company, same developers, same code base most likely (even if they claim it isn't). Whenever I hear the words "WinPhone" I immediately think "Oh, great! Another device to fail unexpectedly at the worst possible times, to need endless patches, to require layers of anti-malware before it can be considered even reasonably secure, and so on and so forth." And that's before even having to worry about a potentially disruptive user interface. If I'm going to learn something new here, then it's going to be something that I feel is genuinely superior, not the "same old same old" with just a new coat of paint on it.


Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC
reply to Metatron2008

"No offense" but your reading comprehension is poor. Perfect contrast and blacks have nothing to do with distorted colors. Everything on the Samsung S2/S3 screen looks hued to me - and I'm definitely not the only reviewer to notice that. The PenTile screens are nowhere near as sharp as the iPhone's screen either.

I'd rather have good color accuracy (which Apple has) than "perfect contrast and blacks". You ever looked at the same photo on those devices side by side? iPhone wins. You try reading webpages? iPhone wins. Case closed.
--
Check out my site: »web.mac.com/jwsmiths

Play Mafia!: »Pub Games



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to scross

said by scross:

said by JohnInSJ:

"if it applies to that version" - so they had problems with windows 7? What version? I am seriously asking, because there is a world of difference (core) between XP and 7. If 7, 32 or 64 bit?

I am currently running a mix of XP, Vista, and 7 - mostly Vista, which was the first version to have UAC.
...
And, no, there really isn't a "world of difference" between them - not from where I sit, anyway.

Ok, so you're not basing your assessment on anything current. Then it's perfectly reasonable and understandable.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

said by JohnInSJ:

Ok, so you're not basing your assessment on anything current. Then it's perfectly reasonable and understandable.

Define "current". Your argument, BTW, is essentially the same one I've heard whenever a new version of Windows has come out - "This time it's different." But it's never really "different", now is it? As I've said, it's the "same old same old" - empty promises and hollow rhetoric (which is usually bought and paid for, I might add)!

The day that Microsoft releases an OS that doesn't NEED a constant stream of zero-day patches and such, for example, then maybe we can START to talk. Until then, no!


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
reply to scross

said by scross:

said by Thaler:

By...continuing to buy the same products? Not sure what you're getting at here.

Mac, Android, Linux, etc. - ever heard of those?

Actually, no - I haven't seen a PC running Android. I've seen them run in emulation, but not as the computer's primary OS.

Microsoft's Windows persistent desktop/laptop presence hasn't really changed much over the last few years. I don't know where you're getting this read of a mass exodus of users from the Windows camp, but actual numbers seem to really disagree with this statement.


Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3
reply to scross

said by scross:

The day that Microsoft releases an OS that doesn't NEED a constant stream of zero-day patches and such, for example, then maybe we can START to talk. Until then, no!

So, since no software manufacturer could produce an OS to run on 90% of computers without zero-day patches...you'll never begin talking? I don't get it.


Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1

You have to give MS some credit, they're slowly getting better.



Insight6

join:2012-08-25

said by Mike:

You have to give MS some credit, they're slowly getting better.

Yes, the cure for cancer rate is improving a bit each year too and it is a good analogy to the claim MS is slowly getting better. MS being on par with Apple will occur likely about the same time a total cure for cancer will be found.

In the meantime poor cancer sufferers will continue their brave painful battle as will MS users.

Go the DSLR Security Forum. Its name is in a way sort of a joke. They could change the name to MS problems and not have to change many posts. The number or percentage of OS X security posts that comprise the very heavily posted and used forum?


Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1

I'm well aware at how shitty windows is.



JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to scross

said by scross:

The day that Microsoft releases an OS that doesn't NEED a constant stream of zero-day patches and such, for example, then maybe we can START to talk. Until then, no!

Well, by that definition, we can start to talk. Constant stream zero-day patches? Nope. Same stream as all other OSes, yep.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN

said by JohnInSJ:

Well, by that definition, we can start to talk. Constant stream zero-day patches? Nope. Same stream as all other OSes, yep.

Well, having worked with quite a few operating systems in my time (I've been in the IT business for over 30 years now), Windows is the only one so far that NEEDS a constant stream (monthly, biweekly, out-of-band, or whatever) of zero-day exploit and similar patches. Other operating systems might have produced a steady stream of bug fixes, enhancements, feature-adds, and so on, that's true, but you might generally only get around to installing those quarterly or even annually or maybe whenever you had a specific need. And very (VERY) few of these were anything like urgent security-related patches, simply because these systems generally didn't ship from the factory in piss-poor condition, and had fundamentally good security built-in from the ground up.

If you have never worked with an OS of such high quality, then I feel sorry for you - I really do!

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Thaler

said by Thaler:

So, since no software manufacturer could produce an OS to run on 90% of computers without zero-day patches...you'll never begin talking? I don't get it.

You don't "get" it, do you?

First off, your statement about 90% of computers isn't true. Windows may run on 90% of "PCs" today (down from close to 100% at one time, I might add), but PCs are all a variation on a theme of one specific computer platform - created by IBM in the 1980s and most recently driven by Microsoft reference designs starting in the late 1990s. The fact that so many people these days automatically equate "computer" with "PC" is just sad, because at any given moment you are literally surrounded by computers of various types, relatively few of which are PCs. The typical modern automobile, for example, is supposed to have up to 11 computers in it, none of which (thank God) usually run Windows or anything else from Microsoft!


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
reply to dellsweig

said by scross:

said by JohnInSJ:

Well, by that definition, we can start to talk. Constant stream zero-day patches? Nope. Same stream as all other OSes, yep.

Well, having worked with quite a few operating systems in my time (I've been in the IT business for over 30 years now), Windows is the only one so far that NEEDS a constant stream (monthly, biweekly, out-of-band, or whatever) of zero-day exploit and similar patches.

Sigh... the old "having worked in IT for 30 years" story. Hey, me too. On OSes from Unix (you know, the real live Unix) to CP/M-80, and just about everything in-between. I have a masters degree in computer science, too. Do I get a cookie?

If you insist on holding to this bogus line of reasoning, then indeed I leave you in the capable hands of Apple. Enjoy.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Thaler

said by Thaler:

Microsoft's Windows persistent desktop/laptop presence hasn't really changed much over the last few years. I don't know where you're getting this read of a mass exodus of users from the Windows camp, but actual numbers seem to really disagree with this statement.

I'm not talking as much about a mass exodus as I am about a change of platform.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to JohnInSJ

said by JohnInSJ:

Sigh... the old "having worked in IT for 30 years" story. Hey, me too. On OSes from Unix (you know, the real live Unix) to CP/M-80, and just about everything in-between. I have a masters degree in computer science, too. Do I get a cookie?

If you insist on holding to this bogus line of reasoning, then indeed I leave you in the capable hands of Apple. Enjoy.

I'm sure you have! But not only have I worked with everything from CP/M and DOS to several versions of "real live Unix", but I've also worked with platforms that blew Unix and Windows out of the water, and that were "beyond the state of the art" when they first came out ages ago - and still are in many respects. It's unfortunate that you have never had that privilege yourself.

And I never said I was going to Apple, now did I? I said that others in my family had or at least wanted to, and that I was even considering it myself, but it probably wouldn't be my first choice. Not because it's not a good choice, but because I don't necessarily want to get pigeon-holed into a single platform, like the general PC world has been.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5

I think IT has passed you by. Your words indicate that you're too old to understand what is going on and why.



Insight6

join:2012-08-25

said by Badonkadonk:

I think IT has passed you by. Your words indicate that you're too old to understand what is going on and why.

Your response is rude, obnoxious, and an unprovoked personal insult or attack on a fellow member. It has no basis in reality.

All though I may not agree with all of the points scross makes or have his level of technical expertise, education, and skill I don't have to in order to reach the conclusion that he is polite, responsive and posts on topic and in good-faith.

You on the other hand "talk," write and reason as a stereotypical abrasive attorney.