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Goggalor
Psychonaut
Premium
join:2009-06-09
Your Mind!
kudos:2
reply to facepalm

Re: Guild Wars 2 WvW is lame

WoW's devs never did the simplest, yet most elegant fix: have PvP and PvE versions of the spells/abilities. Spell/Ability A does this much damage and/or crowd control against a PvP target, but does this much damage and/or crowd control against everything else. I mean, look at Polymorph; it already has two durations: one for PvP, one for PvE...


Kaltes
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Los Angeles, CA
said by Goggalor:

WoW's devs never did the simplest, yet most elegant fix: have PvP and PvE versions of the spells/abilities.

That is not just the simplest fix, it is mandatory. Guild Wars 1 had to do things that way. PvP and Pve are simply different games from a balance perspective. PvP must be finely tuned and nerf-heavy to whack-a-mole down an OP build that is ruining balance for everyone, but OP in pvp might be just fine in pve.

GW1 did it right. They allowed different versions of spells, sometimes changing the strength for pvp (always weaker), and sometimes changing the functionality entirely. Guild wars had to balance hundreds of skills and spells with near-infinite combinations, and yet it did a very good job. WoW had a much, much easier job and yet Blizzard did a pretty terrible job with balance.

Blizzard saying the game isn't balanced around 1v1s is just an excuse.

I played a BM Hunter originally. I eventually abandoned my hunter because hunter was not viable at all in certain matchups. Hunters were good at burning down squishies, but were terrible against heavy armor and medium armor +self-healing. I had a hybrid shaman heal through my burst and kill me purely with shocks (since I had no heals) even though I successfully kited him. I had a paladin fight last over 5 minutes where I couldnt possibly kill him because my damage could never outpace his (non-primary) heals and mana regen.

So I bit the bullet and roll warlock. Affliction. I owned for years. I got to keep a pet. I got to keep my primary playstyle of kiting. My damage was far higher and far more consistent. I could tank enemy casters and kite enemy melee. There was no matchup I couldn't win as long as I outplayed the other guy. I was happy with things until the talent trees got changed and aff locks got nerfed HARD to the point where shadow priests were basically changed to be a better dot class than we were. I stubborn refused to reroll and died a lot as I suddenly went from being somewhat tanky to being super squishy and losing most of my escapes, which I badly needed to kite with. Later on I bit the bullet and respeced to demonology because I could tolerate it, and it was pretty decent. I hated destro locks and refused to ever play as one no matter how much everyone ptried to force me to be one. I think I had guilds pretty much tell me to roll destro or I wouldnt be allowed on raids. too bad I couldn't care less about pve and never went on 1 raid after molten core in vanilla.

So since I had to play with my friends and I was hating being a lock, I rolled the 1 class I hated the most and KNEW that Blizzard would never nerf: paladin.

I owned everyone in the face. As a paladin, I would sometimes even go 3, 4, or 5 vs 1 and WIN. It was just stupid. I was prot spec. I would throw my shield and hit 3 targets for big damage and a snare. I would aoe on my normal attacks. I would self-heal CONSTANTLY for huge amounts thanks to a completely OP trait.

But then the pre-cata patch came out and radically changed balance, so I quit and never returned. Most everyone else I know who was into WoW quit after Cata came out.

cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE
so they balanced your pally, because you were op, and quit cause you werent owning ppl, sounds like huge qqing to me, wahhh wahhh im not the best anymore wah
--
Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau!
"What happened in here?" " Seems to have been a bit of a squabble." "They're all dead!" " More of a tif then."


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
reply to Kaltes
That really does sound like you moving to each FOTM and then quitting when your character who could 1v5 was nerfed.

Pick the class you love and just play it. Stop going for the FOTM.
--
If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.


I AM
Premium
join:2010-04-11
Ephrata, PA
kudos:4
reply to cymraeg
said by cymraeg:

so they balanced your pally, because you were op, and quit cause you werent owning ppl, sounds like huge qqing to me, wahhh wahhh im not the best anymore wah

HEHE.

Josof

join:2010-10-23
Virginia Beach, VA
reply to Goggalor
said by Goggalor:

WoW's devs never did the simplest, yet most elegant fix: have PvP and PvE versions of the spells/abilities. Spell/Ability A does this much damage and/or crowd control against a PvP target, but does this much damage and/or crowd control against everything else. I mean, look at Polymorph; it already has two durations: one for PvP, one for PvE...

^this. most of my time in wow is spent pvp'ing and i never understood why the devs couldnt just come up with something similar to Goggalors fix.
--
"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
Or even simpler. Does X damage to NPCs, does X^Y to players and/or player pets.


Goggalor
Psychonaut
Premium
join:2009-06-09
Your Mind!
kudos:2
reply to cymraeg
said by cymraeg:

so they balanced your pally, because you were op, and quit cause you werent owning ppl, sounds like huge qqing to me, wahhh wahhh im not the best anymore wah

I quit WoW because the devs changed my pally, as well, though, I played as Ret. And, no, it was not that I could not kill people anymore, but because holy power is a piece of shit mechanic that was forced on to a class that had been around since launch.
--
From Psychonauts -
Lungfish Civilian: (describing Goggalor) He's impervious to bullets! ... and love!
--


TheThing

join:2012-08-10
kudos:1
all they needed to do was nerf RET, not add holy power

holy power was a disgusting mechanic

I quit because every class I liked to play, they changed the play style, and then the classes I loved weren't fun anymore

So some dweeb who only raided didn't like a classes mechanics, so they changed it, which then ruined the class for PvP


JB
Stay Gold
Premium
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to cymraeg
said by cymraeg:

so they balanced your pally, because you were op, and quit cause you werent owning ppl, sounds like huge qqing to me, wahhh wahhh im not the best anymore wah



Kaltes
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Los Angeles, CA
reply to cymraeg
said by cymraeg:

so they balanced your pally, because you were op, and quit cause you werent owning ppl, sounds like huge qqing to me, wahhh wahhh im not the best anymore wah

Actually not at all. I did not quit because the pally was nerfed. Paladins were still strong. I think it's funny that you think paladins would EVER be balanced in that game.

No, Blizzard made the pre-Cata patch as the "let's break the game completely but then claim that it is balanced for 85 now, to force everyone to buy Cata to 'fix' the problems we introduced."

Basically damages were greatly increased, which allowed rogues and mages to two-shot people for about a month. Paladins couldn't two shot people, but were still a lot better off than most classes. I quit because the whole dynamic of pvp was ruined, intentionally, because Blizzard only cared about cata and shat on the rest of the game, plus I had no intention of playing cata.


Kaltes
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Los Angeles, CA
reply to Krisnatharok
said by Krisnatharok:

That really does sound like you moving to each FOTM and then quitting when your character who could 1v5 was nerfed.

Pick the class you love and just play it. Stop going for the FOTM.

That is pretty retarded since I picked classes and specs that were actually the least-played. BM Hunter and Aff lock were the two least played specs for those classes in level 70/80 pvp.

I liked hunter because I liked BM. However BM was not viable later on, and was completely incapable of killing certain matchups, so I had to switch to my warlock alt as my new main, and he was my main for BC. I would have been happy to stay with BM hunter, but blizzard have me a choice between switching spec/class or consistently losing. BM was never a FotM and was never OP. It was popular for a very brief time when the BM tree was fleshed out earlier than the other 2 trees, but once the Marks tree had been updated all the hunters went Marks and Marks remained the dominant Hunter spec throughout the entire game's life cycle.

Affliction warlock was never a FOTM. It was a balanced class which was capable, with skill, of holding its own in any given matchup. Demonology and Destro were always more popular than Aff, which Destro being consistently the dominant spec.

When I finally picked Paladin, I did so purely because it was the 'safest' class to pick because Blizzard favored the class. It was never nerfed. Just because I said that I left after the pre-cata patch does not mean it was because of a nerf.


Kaltes
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Los Angeles, CA
reply to Goggalor
said by Goggalor:

said by cymraeg:

so they balanced your pally, because you were op, and quit cause you werent owning ppl, sounds like huge qqing to me, wahhh wahhh im not the best anymore wah

I quit WoW because the devs changed my pally, as well, though, I played as Ret. And, no, it was not that I could not kill people anymore, but because holy power is a piece of shit mechanic that was forced on to a class that had been around since launch.

Holy power was SO overpowered. Since I was new to paladin, the mechanic didn't piss me off, but long-time paladins I could see how completely changing your class mechanics overnight would piss you off. That's the problem with WoW, Blizzard kept thinking that completely changing the game's mechanics would somehow "refresh" the game and make it like a whole new thing, but the actual result is that most of the existing players, who were perfectly happy with the existing mechanics, get pissed off and hate having to re-learn how to play their class.


Krisnatharok
Caveat Emptor
Premium
join:2009-02-11
Earth Orbit
kudos:12
reply to Kaltes
said by Kaltes:

Just because I said that I left after the pre-cata patch does not mean it was because of a nerf.

Uh huh.

said by Kaltes:

I owned everyone in the face. As a paladin, I would sometimes even go 3, 4, or 5 vs 1 and WIN. It was just stupid. I was prot spec. I would throw my shield and hit 3 targets for big damage and a snare. I would aoe on my normal attacks. I would self-heal CONSTANTLY for huge amounts thanks to a completely OP trait.

But then the pre-cata patch came out and radically changed balance, so I quit and never returned

--
If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.

Nesse

join:2009-06-12
Naperville, IL
reply to Kaltes
said by Kaltes:

That is pretty retarded since I picked classes and specs that were actually the least-played. BM Hunter and Aff lock were the two least played specs for those classes in level 70/80 pvp.

I liked hunter because I liked BM. However BM was not viable later on, and was completely incapable of killing certain matchups, so I had to switch to my warlock alt as my new main, and he was my main for BC. I would have been happy to stay with BM hunter, but blizzard have me a choice between switching spec/class or consistently losing. BM was never a FotM and was never OP. It was popular for a very brief time when the BM tree was fleshed out earlier than the other 2 trees, but once the Marks tree had been updated all the hunters went Marks and Marks remained the dominant Hunter spec throughout the entire game's life cycle.

Affliction warlock was never a FOTM. It was a balanced class which was capable, with skill, of holding its own in any given matchup. Demonology and Destro were always more popular than Aff, which Destro being consistently the dominant spec.

When I finally picked Paladin, I did so purely because it was the 'safest' class to pick because Blizzard favored the class. It was never nerfed. Just because I said that I left after the pre-cata patch does not mean it was because of a nerf.

Im not sure we were playing the same versions of WoW. My personal favorite breed of Hunter was always Marksman. I recall when Beastmaster took over as the top talent tree... and it wasnt just for a few months. It was for a good while. I know this because I never switched to BM despite everyone requesting I do so. I forget how it came about. Possible nerf and/or expansion, but BM eventually became the WORST spec to have. But it wasnt MM that took over. it was Survival. And it had a huge lead over MM, which had a good sized lead over BM.

When I first read your original post of you jumping from class to class... I thought the very same thing. FOTM. To say you werent doing it is just silly. The idea behind picking up the Paly just to avoid being nerfed, knowing how OP Palys always were just further proves that you did in fact FOTH hop.