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Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
reply to Gone

Re: Any Canadian farmers care to comment?

said by Gone:

Do you know how many people go to the doctor and demand antibiotics even though they're suffering from a virus that not only will go away itself, but for which antibiotics will do nothing to resolve? This is why we have antibiotic resistant illnesses, not because we don't let sick people die.

Nope. It is, however, making an existing problem worse. I'll grant you that. In a similar fashion we could be throwing Round-Up on crops that don't actually have enough of a weed problem to warrant it, or use too much. I don't know. Not a farmer. But much of the Round Up and bacteria problem is caused by the correct application of both Round Up and anti-biotic medicines.
said by Gone:

Hell, I *rarely* ever receive antibiotics for anything due to other underlying health issues I have. I am still here and alive and not dying from an infection.

Grats. You are aware that your own health is unique to you, and not actually relevant in any way, to discussions of populations, right?
said by Gone:

The exact same principal applies to food. Yes, we have modern science and technology to increase our food output and keep people fed, but we also need to be responsible in how we utilized such food and the technology to produce it.

Of course. Who is arguing otherwise? Did you mean to be replying that to someone else?
said by Gone:

You can't wave your hands in the air screaming about how we need to increase production at all costs...

Sure I could. But I'm not. If someone starts doing so, reply to them?
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by Ian:

Grats. You are aware that your own health is unique to you, and not actually relevant in any way, to discussions of populations, right?

The over-prescribing of antibiotics is not a problem unique to me. If I can survive a low-level infection and have a body that can fight the infection and move on, so can most other people. I am not saying people with serious infections shouldn't receive medication - on the contrary, those are the type of infections that antibiotics should be used for.

Thankfully, the medical community in the last 10-15 years has started to realize just how dangerous over-prescribing is and not only the harm it has already done, but also the harm it can do into the future. While we're not there yet, we're now started to see the same thing happen with food production.

said by Ian:

Of course. Who is arguing otherwise? Did you mean to be replying that to someone else?

said by Ian:

Sure I could. But I'm not. If someone starts doing so, reply to them?

I'll reply to whomever I choose to make my points, just as you have done in the past and will no doubt continue to do into the future.

Not only that, but considering your views on antibiotics and antibiotic resistant bacteria and the boneheaded comment that we would all just let people die, I felt it worthwhile to ensure that you were aware that it is not so black and white for food production, either.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
said by Gone:

Not only that, but considering your views on antibiotics and antibiotic resistant bacteria and the boneheaded comment that we would all just let people die,

Can the childish insults (are people thinking mods are under-worked around here these days?), and read a bit more carefully there. We wouldn't just let people die, and we don't. That was kinda my point, which I think most people understood.
said by Gone:

I felt it worthwhile to ensure that you were aware that it is not so black and white for food production, either.

My argument, from the beginning of this thread, for those following closely along, is that the problem is not simple, or Black and White.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by Ian:

Can the childish insults (are people thinking mods are under-worked around here these days?), and read a bit more carefully there. We wouldn't just let people die, and we don't. That was kinda my point, which I think most people understood.

Can the insults? Hahaha Ian, pot kettle black, but alas...
said by Ian:
These are made worse by the prescribing of modern anti-biotics. The "solution" again is clear. Don't want "super bugs"? Then stop prescribing anti-biotic medicines. But it's also a fairly cold-blooded one. Condemning the ill to a likely death.
What you said, as exactly written here, is that antibiotic resistance is a problem, but the only way to "solve" that problem is to stop using antibiotics and, to quote you, "condemning the ill to a likely death." This comment demonstrated yet another gross misunderstanding. The solution to super bugs isn't to stop using antibiotics and condemning people to death. The solution is to a) stop prescribing antibiotics when not needed b) emphasize a greater role for the human immune system to fight minor infections rather than rushing out to prescribe antibiotics right away c) emphasize that people need to finish their antibiotics when prescribed! and d) stop flushing antibiotics down the toilet. Seiously dude, if you had even the most remote idea of what causes antibiotic resistant "superbugs" you would have never made such an inflammatory and preposterous comment about letting people die, even as a joke since we already know what the "solution" is.

said by Gone:

My argument, from the beginning of this thread, for those following closely along, is that the problem is not simple, or Black and White.

I would just as easily argue that the people who you insult and try to argue with already know that.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
said by Gone:

said by Gone:

My argument, from the beginning of this thread, for those following closely along, is that the problem is not simple, or Black and White.

I would just as easily argue that the people who you insult and try to argue with already know that.

Uh huh. Who did I insult, and where? A little context for these allegations here would be helpful. I called elwoodblues See Profile a troll (with a ), but to be fair, he was rather obviously trolling me, so that could hardly be unexpected. But yes, you could argue all manner of things. But I'm happy to hear that those I've allegedly "insulted" understand my argument. I guess I was clear to some. But not, apparently, you.

said by Gone:

What you said, as exactly written here, is that antibiotic resistance is a problem, but the only way to "solve" that problem is to stop using antibiotics and, to quote you, "condemning the ill to a likely death." This comment demonstrated yet another gross misunderstanding.

Speaking of "gross misunderstanding" As it wasn't apparent to you, when I said "solution", I wasn't advocating that it was something that I thought we should actually do.

Just as, I don't think we should go back to 18th century farming methods to solve the Round Up™ weed problem. I don't have the answers to this one, and I'm not so arrogant to think that I do. Do you have them?
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by Ian:

Uh huh. Who did I insult, and where? A little context for these allegations here would be helpful. I called elwoodblues See Profile a troll (with a ), but to be fair, he was rather obviously trolling me, so that could hardly be unexpected. But yes, you could argue all manner of things. But I'm happy to hear that those I've allegedly "insulted" understand my argument. I guess I was clear to some. But not, apparently, you.

Haha, what a good laugh. You getting angry at elwood and calling him a troll would be like Vladimir Lenin getting pissed off at Leon Trotsky for being a communist, happy face or not.

I've had my laugh for the weekend. Thank you.


urbanriot
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join:2004-10-18
Canada
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reply to Gone
said by Gone:

Thankfully, the medical community in the last 10-15 years has started to realize just how dangerous over-prescribing is and not only the harm it has already done, but also the harm it can do into the future.

Well not only that but we have an antibiotic and drug shortage going on right now... it was in the news in the summer - »www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2···ges.html

Was also referenced on CBC yesterday and they covered a number of people that can't get drugs that are critical for their survival.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by Ian:

Uh huh. Who did I insult, and where? A little context for these allegations here would be helpful. I called elwoodblues See Profile a troll (with a ), but to be fair, he was rather obviously trolling me, so that could hardly be unexpected. But yes, you could argue all manner of things. But I'm happy to hear that those I've allegedly "insulted" understand my argument. I guess I was clear to some. But not, apparently, you.

Haha, what a good laugh. You getting angry at elwood and calling him a troll would be like Vladimir Lenin getting pissed off at Leon Trotsky for being a communist, happy face or not.

I've had my laugh for the weekend. Thank you.

Happy to oblige. I look forward to the examples of my "insults" when you're feeling up to it.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
I don't need to look for past examples, new ones will surface on their own soon enough.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
said by Gone:

I don't need to look for past examples, new ones will surface on their own soon enough.

So. That would be a "no".

Got it.