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navyson

join:2011-07-15
Upper Marlboro, MD

FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

With Comcast matching(in fact exceeding) FIOS's 300 megabit service, what will be Verizon's answer to this?

I know that FIOS does not have a PON infrastructure to offer 1 gig up/1 gig down like Google Fiber in Kansas. However, how much more can FIOS internet go based on its current infrastructure?



wmcbrine
213 251 145 96

join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD
kudos:1

I see no reason they couldn't offer gigabit. It would just be shared. But that's how cable is anyway.
--
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0



ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

With GPON having to share 2.4Gbps among 16 or 32 customers, I doubt very much they will offer that much individual speed. Simply upgrading to the next PON will obviously answer that "problem" Perhaps 10 Gbps (oc192) shared on the PON cards? Maybe theyll go straight to 39 Gbps (oc768) ?? That would be cool.

Besides that, is Comcast REALLY matching? Theres a helluva lot of restrictions on someone getting that tier from Comcast, including a $500 install fee?


serge87

join:2009-11-29
reply to navyson

XG-PON, not for many years.



Jackarino
YacCity
Premium
join:2006-12-28
Allendale, NJ
kudos:1
reply to navyson

Im still waiting for my CO to got GPON!



ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to serge87

This testing was being done a few years ago, probably waiting for costs to come down before deployment. Or, skipping right over this for the NEXT best thing. »newscenter.verizon.com/press-rel···ady.html


batsona
Maryland

join:2004-04-17
Ellicott City, MD
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Vonage
reply to navyson

The limiting factor, is going to be the egress from the Verizon network. Sure, VZ could offer 500Mbit up/down, but what would it look like, when 100,000 people up and down the East coast for instance, try to stream their favorite TV shows & do other Internet stuff all at the same time.. All that traffic has to exit Verizon's network to get to the carrier that hosts that content. Unless there's a way to bond 50 OC192's together between carriers, and/or all carriers upgrade to multi-terrabit backbones, huge bandwidth only spells one thing: massive oversubscription. My original 768/90K DSL connection went to sleep at 5PM, so I went to cable-modem (in ~1999), and it too ended up going to sleep at 5PM. [For now], FiOS doesn't do this... yet(?)


serge87

join:2009-11-29
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to ITALIAN926

said by ITALIAN926:

This testing was being done a few years ago, probably waiting for costs to come down before deployment.

I wish I had your optimism. In any case, it's probably going to be a "not on the shareholders' watch" type of deal. You should have heard the naysayers when Verizon announced the $23 billion for FIOS in the first place.


houkouonchi

join:2002-07-22
Ontario, CA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to batsona

said by batsona:

The limiting factor, is going to be the egress from the Verizon network. Sure, VZ could offer 500Mbit up/down, but what would it look like, when 100,000 people up and down the East coast for instance, try to stream their favorite TV shows & do other Internet stuff all at the same time.. All that traffic has to exit Verizon's network to get to the carrier that hosts that content. Unless there's a way to bond 50 OC192's together between carriers, and/or all carriers upgrade to multi-terrabit backbones, huge bandwidth only spells one thing: massive oversubscription. My original 768/90K DSL connection went to sleep at 5PM, so I went to cable-modem (in ~1999), and it too ended up going to sleep at 5PM. [For now], FiOS doesn't do this... yet(?)

10 gigabit ethernet is the new standard these days with 40 gige and 100gige options as well. You can provide for *a lot* of customers with a single 10 gige link. VZ also balances load between multiple routers.

You can also easily put up to 8 links in a bonded (802.3ad) port-channel/lacp which could easily do 80 gig with 10 gig links. VZ is alter.net which is a tier1 provider. They have *massive* pipelines to all the other tier 1 transit providers (as its required to have settlement free peering with other tier1's to be a tier1 transit provider).
--
300/150 mbit Bonded Verizon FiOS connection FTW!

Mahalo

join:2000-12-20
united state
kudos:1
reply to navyson

VZ already has a plan for 500Mb for 2013 in the works.


serge87

join:2009-11-29
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

said by Mahalo:

VZ already has a plan for 500Mb for 2013 in the works.

I like the sound of that but source?


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:23

Probably another leaky faucet that has been correct with the previous speed increase rumors? :P


Mahalo

join:2000-12-20
united state
kudos:1
reply to serge87

An inside person...not a field tech.



danclan

join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA

I wouldn't be too concerned about Comcast's 305 megabit speed offering. As I read it's only available to very select areas and ironically it requires a fiber pull.......


serge87

join:2009-11-29
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to navyson

said by Mahalo:

An inside person...not a field tech.

If it's true then I'm very eager to hear more. Any idea if the new 500 tier will bump the current upper tiers(150/300) down a notch or will it have its own exclusive uber-expensive price? And will it be available for business customers eventually? I'll take any or all scoops

nycdave if you're reading this I'd also love to hear your input!

zippoboy7

join:2006-06-18
USA
reply to houkouonchi

said by houkouonchi:

said by batsona:

The limiting factor, is going to be the egress from the Verizon network. Sure, VZ could offer 500Mbit up/down, but what would it look like, when 100,000 people up and down the East coast for instance, try to stream their favorite TV shows & do other Internet stuff all at the same time.. All that traffic has to exit Verizon's network to get to the carrier that hosts that content. Unless there's a way to bond 50 OC192's together between carriers, and/or all carriers upgrade to multi-terrabit backbones, huge bandwidth only spells one thing: massive oversubscription. My original 768/90K DSL connection went to sleep at 5PM, so I went to cable-modem (in ~1999), and it too ended up going to sleep at 5PM. [For now], FiOS doesn't do this... yet(?)

10 gigabit ethernet is the new standard these days with 40 gige and 100gige options as well. You can provide for *a lot* of customers with a single 10 gige link. VZ also balances load between multiple routers.

You can also easily put up to 8 links in a bonded (802.3ad) port-channel/lacp which could easily do 80 gig with 10 gig links. VZ is alter.net which is a tier1 provider. They have *massive* pipelines to all the other tier 1 transit providers (as its required to have settlement free peering with other tier1's to be a tier1 transit provider).

Just to add to this, Verizon has been in the news about its upgrades to 100Gbit between major US cites POPS »insanetek.com/news/1-web-and-ind···o-the-us as well as between the US and Europe »www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2030549/···k-europe While I do not know how far along they are on this project it will bring substantial increases in compacity when its done.

Also to the op, Comcast's 305Mbit tier is worthless to most people who want low latency or to actually use that 305Mbit speed since they oversubscribe there main connections to try to force people to peer with them at ridiculous rates. For this all you have to do is look at people bitching about 300-1000ms ping's during peak hours. »tech.slashdot.org/story/10/12/14···y-choice while this is from 2010 the same crap happens to this day even with Comcast denying the issue. I get people who bitch at my Job on a weekly basis who use Comcast at home and have major problems at night with lag while connecting to our VPN (We have ~40Gbit to Verizon and Cogent both major backbone providers and only Comcast users bitch about lag). To add to this when I asked for a quote for 1Gbit from Comcast (Who has fiber in the building) the price was more then I pay for a single 10Gbit circuit from Verizon and about 2x the cost of Cogent.

brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1
reply to wmcbrine

Wow, that is a lot of bandwidth. I thought when I was using my 153Mbps I was knocking everyone off in my area. LOL



Fyi

@sbc.com
reply to zippoboy7

Comcast is using 100% fiber for the 300+ tier, so I doubt it will share the over subscription problems of its copper


zippoboy7

join:2006-06-18
USA

said by Fyi :

Comcast is using 100% fiber for the 300+ tier, so I doubt it will share the over subscription problems of its copper

The over subscription problems has nothing to do with the last mile copper, they are at the connections between Comcast and Tata Communications which is one of the major tier 1 providers. Comcast purposefully saturates there connections to Tata to try and force people like Google/Netflix/etc... to peer directly with them by having there users bitch about buffering in videos or slowness viewing images or playing games.

brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1
reply to navyson

Comcast can't even come close to FIOS pricing. Plus I can guarantee you that bandwidth increase will have a small cap on it.


iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
reply to navyson

The issue at this point is that, for places that are getting the 305M treatment with Comcast, the cable company is setting up a full-on MetroE circuit to someone's house. That circuit can run up to one gigabit per second based on the hardware that they will install (router excepted). That means that Verizon has much less of a capacity lead when comparing their GPON network to Comcast's highest-end tier; either you've got a gigabit of capacity to one user or 2.5x that down and 1.25x that up shared between a few dozen.

That said, 500 Mbps down and 100 Mbps up would be very doable over GPON and force Comcast to up its MetroE-to-the-Home tier to compete. If Comcast upgrades its $300 per month tier again, it's easier for Verizon to swap out GPON for XGPON on a surgical basis (e.g. when someone orders a gigabit tier in an area, for $300 per month) than it is for Comcast to run fiber to the home anyway. In Verizon's case, they swap out one piece of equipment at the CO, plus maybe ONTs for the area. In Comcast's case, they have to string fiber. Plus XGPON has 10 Gbps of capacity on the downstream (roughly) and 2.5 Gbps on the upstream side...Comcast may have 10 Gbps symmetric going into an entire CMTS but at that point they're limited by the last mile again, which is too much work for practically no payoff.



Anon51

@verizon.net
reply to serge87

This guy is just blowing smoke with his "inside person". If this 500 meg tier was in the works, only a handful of people would know about it. Which means they would not tell their friend to post on a forum.

I wonder if his friend also mentioned the caps hinted at by President Bob Mudge in the video announcing Quantam back in May. Nobody reported on that.



DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to zippoboy7

said by zippoboy7:

said by Fyi :

Comcast is using 100% fiber for the 300+ tier, so I doubt it will share the over subscription problems of its copper

The over subscription problems has nothing to do with the last mile copper, they are at the connections between Comcast and Tata Communications which is one of the major tier 1 providers. Comcast purposefully saturates there connections to Tata to try and force people like Google/Netflix/etc... to peer directly with them by having there users bitch about buffering in videos or slowness viewing images or playing games.

Proof?


Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:23
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Frontier Communi..

1 edit

Search for data on what happened to Comcast's service when they dropped Level3. TATA was their dump truck provider to the non-peered providers. Folks saw some nice speed hits and some websites that I currently cannot remember supplied some data that shows the ports to Comcast from TATA were running maxed at night. I'm sure it's not happening now but that is what happened.

When Sprint had an issue with Cogent back several years ago, you just lost access to Cogent's network. They didn't use another provider to get onto their network, but Sprint is probably a different Tier provider.



DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
reply to navyson

I have no doubts they had a maxed out Router/Link. Almost every ISP experiences this from time to time.

What I doubt is that it was sustained and still going on to this day, and I seriously doubt the motives suggested here.


serge87

join:2009-11-29
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to Anon51

said by Anon51 :

This guy is just blowing smoke with his "inside person". If this 500 meg tier was in the works, only a handful of people would know about it. Which means they would not tell their friend to post on a forum.

That's why I'd love to hear what nycdave has to say about this, because he's a no-nonsense guy


bigdaddy

join:2009-11-18
kudos:2

Bump


serge87

join:2009-11-29
reply to navyson

Having just gotten the 300mbps plan I'm still interested in this(even though it's rumor at best)



bohratom
Jersey Shore is back again.

join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ
reply to Jackarino

said by Jackarino:

Im still waiting for my CO to got GPON!

+1, U served out of Freehold I take it?

Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
reply to ITALIAN926

said by ITALIAN926:

With GPON having to share 2.4Gbps among 16 or 32 customers, I doubt very much they will offer that much individual speed.

GPON can be up to 1 Gbps symmetrical but yes it would be overbooked if 16 users all used that at exactly the same time.