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Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4

1 edit
reply to digitalfutur

Re: Any Canadian farmers care to comment?

said by digitalfutur:

According to this article, food product will have to double by 2050.

... sure, if we continue to waste half the food we produce I have no doubt in my mind that food production will need to double by 2050.

Still, you - no surprise - completely and totally ignored the point I was making we have a solution now - stop wasting bloody food! 40% is thrown out for cosmetic reasons, 15-20% is wasted in North American homes by being purchased and never eaten. God knows how much is wasted in the developing world due to corruption and distribution issues. Production is not the issue. Efficient utilization of resources is.

Sure, the so-called conservatives get all pissy when someone points out the obvious that our way of life is unsustainable and that a very simple solution to food production is to stop throwing perfectly good away, but then again so-called conservatives are known for using the most elaborate and expensive method to solve a problem, rather than the more obvious simple one staring at them right in the face. Then again, I've never considered these people to be conservatives in the first place.

For what it's worth, the article you posted, aside from conveying the exact point that I alluded to with regards to waste, was also quite clear that reducing our consumption of meat would also be a big benefit as far as food production goes. Looks like that so-called ideological war you were rambling on about even exists in your own cited material.


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
Your propostion is not a solution, so there's nothing to ignore.

The reason why food production has to double is stated quite clearly in the article "To feed the world's growing and more affluent population, global agriculture will have to double its food production by 2050." That production increase includes but is not limited to reducing waste. Reducing waste alone will not solve the problem.

Production is the issue because more people globally need more food. Did you click through all the slides or are you ignoring the comprehensive solution on purpose?

Do you and Wolfie still propose that "evil" corporations should be out of the food production business? If so, what is the alternate plan?
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by digitalfutur:

Your propostion is not a solution, so there's nothing to ignore.

Bzzt wrong. Reducing food waste is a *far* more reasonable solution for addressing growing food consumption needs versus continuing production only for more than half of it to continue to be thrown out or go to waste. Eliminating waste alone would meet the growth needs of the time period you cited - and thats not even taking into account distribution issues. Even your own article mentioned that reducing waste was a big part of addressing the growing needs of global food consumption. Did you not read your own link that you cited?

Clearly you're on another one of your ideological benders though, so we'll just leave it at that. It's a shame that so-called conservatives for some reason that defies logic never choose the cheapest, most cost-effective and/or simple way to solve a problem.


yoyomhz

join:2003-02-15
Beverly Hills, CA
If the food is wasted right on the field or on the farm it's not a problem. It goes back into the soil. It won't hurt a thing. Farmers don't ever really care about a crop that stays on the field because you're not taking anything out of the soil for that year, and next year will be better.

I think that's where the 'waste' statistic mosly comes from.


yoyomhz

join:2003-02-15
Beverly Hills, CA
In fact, leaving part of the crop on the field is beneficial. Not wasteful.

the ancient Jews had a saying - Don't glean your crops.

.


Gone
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join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
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reply to yoyomhz
said by yoyomhz:

If the food is wasted right on the field or on the farm it's not a problem. It goes back into the soil. It won't hurt a thing. Farmers don't ever really care about a crop that stays on the field because you're not taking anything out of the soil for that year, and next year will be better.

It's still a problem if the food is edible, because you have just spent resources on growing a product that won't feed anyone.

Most of the food is wasted as the distribution, retail or consumer level, though. It is shocking when one realizes that over half of the food that we produce ends up in the garbage.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
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join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
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The cost of resources used to grow that food, pales beside the cost of harvesting, sorting, distribution, and retail (not to mention the resources used at home to store in the fridge).

TheDao

join:2009-01-01
reply to Gone
My father used to own a grocery store. Yes there is waste where food is thrown out but we try to avoid it by selling it at a much cheaper price than normal. Usually we can decide just before food will go bad. Waste isn't that high in a grocery store, I have no idea in restaurants. I throw out very little food at home. But it accumulate and sees like it's a lot. I say it's no more than 5 to 10% of food is goes to waste, average speaking. Ten percent is on the high side. If restaurants and grocery stores were to have high amount of waste there would be smaller profit and high prices but that isn't necessarily the case.
Our problem is that people eat too much. We have a lot of people that are overweight or obese which is a huge problem.

»www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-625-x/2···-eng.htm


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
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reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

The cost of resources used to grow that food, pales beside the cost of harvesting, sorting, distribution, and retail (not to mention the resources used at home to store in the fridge).

Modern science helps that out too. I remember reading a study a while back on "garbage archeology", where they looked at modern land-fills. A typical US landfill contained three times as much food packaging per capita as a Mexican one. But the Mexican one contained three times as much actual food.

I think most of us "get" that pesticide resistant crops are bad (the topic of the thread). It's just that they aren't the only bad thing to consider.

It's a similar technological issue to that of anti-biotic resistant bacteria. These are made worse by the prescribing of modern anti-biotics. The "solution" again is clear. Don't want "super bugs"? Then stop prescribing anti-biotic medicines. But it's also a fairly cold-blooded one. Condemning the ill to a likely death.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Gone
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Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by Ian:

It's a similar technological issue to that of anti-biotic resistant bacteria. These are made worse by the prescribing of modern anti-biotics. The "solution" again is clear. Don't want "super bugs"? Then stop prescribing anti-biotic medicines. But it's also a fairly cold-blooded one. Condemning the ill to a likely death.

While I'm sure you get off on the inflammatory comments about letting people die, it only goes to show that you really don't know what the crux of the problem is. The solution is to stop prescribing antibiotics for illnesses that either a) don't need them or b) aren't resolved by them. Do you know how many people go to the doctor and demand antibiotics even though they're suffering from a virus that not only will go away itself, but for which antibiotics will do nothing to resolve? This is why we have antibiotic resistant illnesses, not because we don't let sick people die. Hell, I *rarely* ever receive antibiotics for anything due to other underlying health issues I have. I am still here and alive and not dying from an infection.

The exact same principal applies to food. Yes, we have modern science and technology to increase our food output and keep people fed, but we also need to be responsible in how we utilized such food and the technology to produce it. You can't wave your hands in the air screaming about how we need to increase production at all costs when we're still wasting half of the food we produce, most of that just for cosmetic reasons.


Ian
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join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
said by Gone:

Do you know how many people go to the doctor and demand antibiotics even though they're suffering from a virus that not only will go away itself, but for which antibiotics will do nothing to resolve? This is why we have antibiotic resistant illnesses, not because we don't let sick people die.

Nope. It is, however, making an existing problem worse. I'll grant you that. In a similar fashion we could be throwing Round-Up on crops that don't actually have enough of a weed problem to warrant it, or use too much. I don't know. Not a farmer. But much of the Round Up and bacteria problem is caused by the correct application of both Round Up and anti-biotic medicines.
said by Gone:

Hell, I *rarely* ever receive antibiotics for anything due to other underlying health issues I have. I am still here and alive and not dying from an infection.

Grats. You are aware that your own health is unique to you, and not actually relevant in any way, to discussions of populations, right?
said by Gone:

The exact same principal applies to food. Yes, we have modern science and technology to increase our food output and keep people fed, but we also need to be responsible in how we utilized such food and the technology to produce it.

Of course. Who is arguing otherwise? Did you mean to be replying that to someone else?
said by Gone:

You can't wave your hands in the air screaming about how we need to increase production at all costs...

Sure I could. But I'm not. If someone starts doing so, reply to them?
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Gone
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Fort Erie, ON
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said by Ian:

Grats. You are aware that your own health is unique to you, and not actually relevant in any way, to discussions of populations, right?

The over-prescribing of antibiotics is not a problem unique to me. If I can survive a low-level infection and have a body that can fight the infection and move on, so can most other people. I am not saying people with serious infections shouldn't receive medication - on the contrary, those are the type of infections that antibiotics should be used for.

Thankfully, the medical community in the last 10-15 years has started to realize just how dangerous over-prescribing is and not only the harm it has already done, but also the harm it can do into the future. While we're not there yet, we're now started to see the same thing happen with food production.

said by Ian:

Of course. Who is arguing otherwise? Did you mean to be replying that to someone else?

said by Ian:

Sure I could. But I'm not. If someone starts doing so, reply to them?

I'll reply to whomever I choose to make my points, just as you have done in the past and will no doubt continue to do into the future.

Not only that, but considering your views on antibiotics and antibiotic resistant bacteria and the boneheaded comment that we would all just let people die, I felt it worthwhile to ensure that you were aware that it is not so black and white for food production, either.


Ian
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join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
said by Gone:

Not only that, but considering your views on antibiotics and antibiotic resistant bacteria and the boneheaded comment that we would all just let people die,

Can the childish insults (are people thinking mods are under-worked around here these days?), and read a bit more carefully there. We wouldn't just let people die, and we don't. That was kinda my point, which I think most people understood.
said by Gone:

I felt it worthwhile to ensure that you were aware that it is not so black and white for food production, either.

My argument, from the beginning of this thread, for those following closely along, is that the problem is not simple, or Black and White.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by Ian:

Can the childish insults (are people thinking mods are under-worked around here these days?), and read a bit more carefully there. We wouldn't just let people die, and we don't. That was kinda my point, which I think most people understood.

Can the insults? Hahaha Ian, pot kettle black, but alas...
said by Ian:
These are made worse by the prescribing of modern anti-biotics. The "solution" again is clear. Don't want "super bugs"? Then stop prescribing anti-biotic medicines. But it's also a fairly cold-blooded one. Condemning the ill to a likely death.
What you said, as exactly written here, is that antibiotic resistance is a problem, but the only way to "solve" that problem is to stop using antibiotics and, to quote you, "condemning the ill to a likely death." This comment demonstrated yet another gross misunderstanding. The solution to super bugs isn't to stop using antibiotics and condemning people to death. The solution is to a) stop prescribing antibiotics when not needed b) emphasize a greater role for the human immune system to fight minor infections rather than rushing out to prescribe antibiotics right away c) emphasize that people need to finish their antibiotics when prescribed! and d) stop flushing antibiotics down the toilet. Seiously dude, if you had even the most remote idea of what causes antibiotic resistant "superbugs" you would have never made such an inflammatory and preposterous comment about letting people die, even as a joke since we already know what the "solution" is.

said by Gone:

My argument, from the beginning of this thread, for those following closely along, is that the problem is not simple, or Black and White.

I would just as easily argue that the people who you insult and try to argue with already know that.


Ian
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join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
said by Gone:

said by Gone:

My argument, from the beginning of this thread, for those following closely along, is that the problem is not simple, or Black and White.

I would just as easily argue that the people who you insult and try to argue with already know that.

Uh huh. Who did I insult, and where? A little context for these allegations here would be helpful. I called elwoodblues See Profile a troll (with a ), but to be fair, he was rather obviously trolling me, so that could hardly be unexpected. But yes, you could argue all manner of things. But I'm happy to hear that those I've allegedly "insulted" understand my argument. I guess I was clear to some. But not, apparently, you.

said by Gone:

What you said, as exactly written here, is that antibiotic resistance is a problem, but the only way to "solve" that problem is to stop using antibiotics and, to quote you, "condemning the ill to a likely death." This comment demonstrated yet another gross misunderstanding.

Speaking of "gross misunderstanding" As it wasn't apparent to you, when I said "solution", I wasn't advocating that it was something that I thought we should actually do.

Just as, I don't think we should go back to 18th century farming methods to solve the Round Up™ weed problem. I don't have the answers to this one, and I'm not so arrogant to think that I do. Do you have them?
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by Ian:

Uh huh. Who did I insult, and where? A little context for these allegations here would be helpful. I called elwoodblues See Profile a troll (with a ), but to be fair, he was rather obviously trolling me, so that could hardly be unexpected. But yes, you could argue all manner of things. But I'm happy to hear that those I've allegedly "insulted" understand my argument. I guess I was clear to some. But not, apparently, you.

Haha, what a good laugh. You getting angry at elwood and calling him a troll would be like Vladimir Lenin getting pissed off at Leon Trotsky for being a communist, happy face or not.

I've had my laugh for the weekend. Thank you.


urbanriot
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Canada
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reply to Gone
said by Gone:

Thankfully, the medical community in the last 10-15 years has started to realize just how dangerous over-prescribing is and not only the harm it has already done, but also the harm it can do into the future.

Well not only that but we have an antibiotic and drug shortage going on right now... it was in the news in the summer - »www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2···ges.html

Was also referenced on CBC yesterday and they covered a number of people that can't get drugs that are critical for their survival.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by Ian:

Uh huh. Who did I insult, and where? A little context for these allegations here would be helpful. I called elwoodblues See Profile a troll (with a ), but to be fair, he was rather obviously trolling me, so that could hardly be unexpected. But yes, you could argue all manner of things. But I'm happy to hear that those I've allegedly "insulted" understand my argument. I guess I was clear to some. But not, apparently, you.

Haha, what a good laugh. You getting angry at elwood and calling him a troll would be like Vladimir Lenin getting pissed off at Leon Trotsky for being a communist, happy face or not.

I've had my laugh for the weekend. Thank you.

Happy to oblige. I look forward to the examples of my "insults" when you're feeling up to it.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


Gone
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Fort Erie, ON
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I don't need to look for past examples, new ones will surface on their own soon enough.


Ian
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join:2002-06-18
ON
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said by Gone:

I don't need to look for past examples, new ones will surface on their own soon enough.

So. That would be a "no".

Got it.