Topic 'Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?' in forum 'Verizon Fiber Optics' - dslreports.com

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:24:33 EDT

JackBauer posted :

An inside person...not a field tech.

Hmm - perhaps I should hold off on moving to FIOS from TWC as long as possible so I can get 125/50 for the current price of 75/35. :)

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Tue, 25 Dec 2012 17:08:52 EDT

McBane posted :

said by rebus9:

said by KillABrew:

VZ already has a plan for 500Mb for 2013 in the works.

Which, sadly, does those of us on BPON absolutely no good. I need to upgrade a business location from 35/35 to one of the Quantum tiers and am told nothing beyond 50/25 is available at that address.

Very frustrating. Just 1 mile down the road, another location is served from a different CO and has all tiers available.

When I was told that I just kept calling their business sales people back over and over until I got a sales rep who just crammed the order through. About 1.5 months later and waiting for Verizon to "upgrade" my neighborhood I was on a 150Mbps GPON plan. (Since downgraded to 75/35 due to crappy quantum pricing).

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Mon, 24 Dec 2012 16:17:46 EDT

serge87 posted :

said by rebus9:

said by KillABrew:

VZ already has a plan for 500Mb for 2013 in the works.

Unfortunately that is not a fault of Verizon's. Although new builds are GPON, those that started off with BPON will remain that way until enough new FIOS subscriptions cause it to meet its capacity, at which point you'll have GPON. I was on BPON since 2007 until I finally was put on GPON in late 2011, probably due to a huge boom in new housing developments in my area in the past two years.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Mon, 24 Dec 2012 15:42:27 EDT

rebus9 posted :

said by KillABrew:

VZ already has a plan for 500Mb for 2013 in the works.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Mon, 24 Dec 2012 05:04:06 EDT

bohratom posted : Im all for FIOS getting faster but lets be honest 98% of customers will not care....The key for the majority of users will be streaming of HD media which atm uses around 3-5mb/sec. Of course factor in 2-3 kids and u have the ultimate streaming usage of a typical family around 6-9 mb/sec...... True , google it

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Sun, 23 Dec 2012 08:06:17 EDT

buckweet1980 posted : Yeah you said something I've been very shocked to find out when researching OLTs (for my education).. I work for a large networking manufacturer, mainly for the enterprise markets. One of the first thing's we always get asked about is over-subscription rates, so naturally that is the first thing I look for when looking at these boxes.

I see tons of ports out, but very few Gig/TenGig in. Some of these manufacturers have 4 ports or more per card. With that I'd expect a 10gig interface for the uplinks. Over-subscription must be very high when factoring in that we're being split 16/32/64 times in the field and then it's being subscribed even much higher at OLT level. My connection (150mb) doesn't ever to seem to have bandwidth issues currently, but I'm sure the day will come when it does..

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Sat, 22 Dec 2012 07:05:44 EDT

anon posted :

said by buckweet1980:

In the FIOS use case the OLT devices are really nothing more than a bridge/transceiver to get the traffic off of the GPON medium and onto Ethernet at the CO. It doesn't really care about the layer-2 conversations, it just processes them transparently. The real work on FIOS is being done by the routers sitting behind the OLT boxes. FIOS for my node is serviced by a Juniper E series router, which I assume is common across most areas. The E series have been around for a long time and are specifically built for handling 10's of thousands of subscribers on a single box.

Not as transparent as what GPON vendors want buyers to believe. The OLT still has to maintain a very long list of MAC addressing table and ONT IDs. It also have to continuously identify/monitor for ONTs for bandwidth mapping, time all the slots accordingly and GEM packaging for the 10s of thousands capacity which the vendors claim. I find them a little exaggerating. The OLT also has the ability to isolate VLANs with transmission containers(T-Conts)and places traffic prioritization on them. That's one way how they do garden walled IPTV services like FIOD TV.

No doubt many call the OLT a dumb Layer 1 switch that has most of the upper layers taken care of by the core routers such as IP routing, but there are some tasks which is unique to the OLT.

quote:
The real work on FIOS is being done by the routers sitting behind the OLT boxes.

This is the 2nd weakness of the GPON OLTs I pointed out earlier. The model itself is best suited to serve high density populated areas with many lines per port (>30 splits per port) to maintain its competitiveness against active switches. Now here's the catch: You buy a very expensive OLT set that claims to cater for 10s of thousands of ONTs after receiving all the demand from the locals. But your backplane of your OLT only takes in multiple 1GE, 10GE and 100GE at most.
How do you intend to keep up with the growing demand?

The key point is to learn from the cable industry where they too had faced this very same problem with the headends not keeping up with the rate cable modems installations. Many started complaining of slowdowns during peak hours and they are not getting close to their subscribed speeds.

Eventually they learn from their mistakes and solved the issue by creating more "mini nodes" to spread things out more evenly by means of effective rationalizing.

In the case of passive networks the same move can be done by increasing more OLT ports, buying more miniaturized OLTs and decreasing split ratios. But before you do that, don't you think the architecture of active switches were better suited for such situations? You are better organized and ready to serve with packages beyond 1gbps with dedicated active ports than you do with passive networks.Would you buy an expensive cabinet sized OLTs just to do few hundred lines? Better spend your extra on the core routing and transport.

I can count my dedicated active ports better with a 10GE than an expensive OLT with a single GPON line card with many logical connections over shared lines.

A monster still needs a matching digestive tract to suit its appetite.

We have to consider our options resonably that 1GE and 10GE are the only mainstream options for uplinks. 100GE is ready but equipments are still expensive. Why would you spent on a big box that claims a capacity which its backhaul can't keep up?

Fiber is not an issue with economics of scale. It's going to get cheaper since silica is plenty to be found in the ground. Manufacturing process improvements will only lower manufacturing cost over time till it becomes cheaper than copper one day. For new ISPs building new infrastructures, it's best they keep solely to Ethernet to simplify their setup. TDM and ATM should be phased out entirely for modern NGNs.With IPTV, very few service providers are using the RF overlay option for their cable tv services.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Fri, 21 Dec 2012 19:24:55 EDT

McBane posted : Yeah the connections per second are nothing for an OLT router or any time of backbone or provider router to handle. That is what network specific hardware is built for. The limiting factor is going to be all about the bandwidth available, on both sides of the OLT.

From my experience though Verizon has got the hang of managing and balancing the FiOS network pretty well. Originally back in '06 - '08 they absolutely sucked at managing it, though. Verizon also doesn't seem to have a problem at expanding capacity where needed as soon as possble compared to any other ISP I've ever had. Luckily their Network Engineers learn from their mistakes unlike some other providers, like most of the cable companies...

I just wish their customer service and billing departments were just as good.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Fri, 21 Dec 2012 18:54:52 EDT

buckweet1980 posted :

said by batsona:

Active Opto: I never thought of it that way. Given how different ethernet is, from Passive Optical on layer 1 & layer 2, there must be alot of CPU thats chewed up in aggregating 10's of thousands of layer-2 conversations on the OLT, into just a few layer-2 connections when everything is aggregated onto a core Internet router. Depending on what you're doing, it takes alot of CPU to fool around at layer2.

So, the over-subscription is not neccessarily related to bandwidth, but also the ability of the devices that take 10,000 conversations across multiple layer-1 cables, and put them onto 2-3 connections to an aggregation router.

You'd be surprised what a network device can do when it's tasks are implemented on ASICs, they allow for very little traditional CPU to be required. With network switches and high end routers all of the functions needed to service the network are handled via the line card ASICS and rarely ever punted to the device CPU. Typically the only time traffic is punted to the CPU is for control plane traffic.

In the FIOS use case the OLT devices are really nothing more than a bridge/transceiver to get the traffic off of the GPON medium and onto Ethernet at the CO. It doesn't really care about the layer-2 conversations, it just processes them transparently. The real work on FIOS is being done by the routers sitting behind the OLT boxes. FIOS for my node is serviced by a Juniper E series router, which I assume is common across most areas. The E series have been around for a long time and are specifically built for handling 10's of thousands of subscribers on a single box.

Traditional PC/Server computing rules don't apply to devices built specifically for these tasks in terms of traffic forwarding.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Fri, 21 Dec 2012 09:25:35 EDT

batsona posted : Active Opto: I never thought of it that way. Given how different ethernet is, from Passive Optical on layer 1 & layer 2, there must be alot of CPU thats chewed up in aggregating 10's of thousands of layer-2 conversations on the OLT, into just a few layer-2 connections when everything is aggregated onto a core Internet router. Depending on what you're doing, it takes alot of CPU to fool around at layer2.

So, the over-subscription is not neccessarily related to bandwidth, but also the ability of the devices that take 10,000 conversations across multiple layer-1 cables, and put them onto 2-3 connections to an aggregation router.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Fri, 21 Dec 2012 02:13:50 EDT

McBane posted :

said by mig288:

please elaborate? what "problems" are you referring to?

I think bigdaddy and Active Opto lay it out pretty well and in some areas it is already over congested. I used to live in one of those areas so I know.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Fri, 21 Dec 2012 01:31:40 EDT

bohratom posted :

said by OwlSaver:

I have not analyzed TCP/IP in detail but I have analyzed various high capacity dedicated and networked disk systems. In all cases, the speed that an ACK/NACK can be returned is critical to overall performance. It typically has to with queuing up of requests. I have always imagined that TCP/IP has the same issue and the asymmetrical network speeds limit the effective download throughput because of delays in ACKs and NACKs.

Owl, guess U have never worked in a development team....Your synopsis reminds of 1940/41 when people did not think that U235 was fissionable..... :D

Yes I went overboard with the analogy but just pointing out where U stand ....

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Fri, 21 Dec 2012 01:02:43 EDT

OwlSaver posted :

said by serge87:

...

Good point. In my experience, TCP ACK traffic is roughly 6-8% of total download bandwidth being used so your analogy is spot on :)

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Thu, 20 Dec 2012 21:24:09 EDT

mig288 posted : please elaborate? what "problems" are you referring to?

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Thu, 20 Dec 2012 19:01:45 EDT

McBane posted : FiOS, it sucks less than cable. You just have to rationalize it even though it's the same problems on fiber instead of coax. :)

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Thu, 20 Dec 2012 16:08:28 EDT

anon posted :

said by bigdaddy:

So GPON's Max Upload Speed potential 1.244 Gbps split 32 way's is 38.875Mpbs. So how can VZ offer 65Mpbs Upload over GPON via the 150/65 and 300/65 Tiers isn't that a Recipe for Over Subscription ? Now XG-PON has a Max Upload Speed of 2.5Gbps split that 32 way's you come out with 78.125Mbps per user. Why doesn't VZ roll out XG-PON for the FiOS Quantum Tiers ?

Same go's for Down Speed GPON 2.448Gbps split 32 way's is 77.75Mbps. XG-PON split 32 way's is 312.5Mbps. The FiOS Quantum 300/65 should be on XG-PON Not GPON. So how in the World is VZ FiOS Going to offer 500/65 ? Like I said a Recipe for Over Subscription.

Contention and split ratios are the least worrisome point for passive optical networks(GPON and 10G XG-PON) on last mile connections.
They can be planned carefully from the start to limit the number per port according to how much bandwidth the operator intends to sell.
However it doesn't make much sense to go with very low contention with passive networks (1:8 or 1:4), instead operators prefer to do it with P2P since it does not justify for much cost savings to do so.

The 2 major concerns with GPON/XG-PON instead are:

1) How are you going to feed the monster OLT box backplane connection that connects it back to the core aggregation switches.

2) How to tame monster OLT box with the high number of connections and traffic it has to handle as subscriber rate scales to peak numbers. It requires a monster processing power to handle thousands of simultaneous users compared to dedicated ports for active Ethernet users?If each subscriber creates >64 connections, it's enough to cause massive congestion, thus causing huge spikes in latencies during peak hours.

Just to compare, this is one of the highest capacity and latest OLT product from Calix.[Note: Current present GPON OLTs on average only handles about 200Gbps for backplane connections]
»www.calix.com/systems/e-series/c···-20.html

Key highlights to note(quoted from site):
-2 terabit backplane with 100 Gbps connection to each line card slot
-Serves 480 point-to-point GE or over 10,000 GPON subscribers, with the capacity to serve over 20,000 subscribers through higher density line cards in the future

So if you just do a simple calculation:
The latest GPON/XG-PON line cards have 8 ports today.
Assume they are selling a 1Gbps service.
If each card has ONLY a 100gbps to breath, while each port handles 30 lines(32 in theory with 2 often reserved) on a passive splitter,
8 x 32 lines/ONTs x 1Gbps = 256Gbps diet
[Compare this again to active ethernet, 480ports/20 line cards you get only around 24 ports to share the 100Gbps load on each line card - That'a nearly 10x more capacity for each line card (256/24)]
*Important note: In reality, many ISPs are only giving 1x-4x 10GE Ethernet lines to their OLTs backplane. Complains are already coming in mostly during peak hours.

Next comes switching speed and connection load handling between users. Cisco claims they can handle terabit speeds with their active switches with at most only caters around 400 dedicated ports , but how about a high capacity OLT that claims to handle 10k to 20k users simultaneously? That's quite a monster to tame.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Mon, 17 Dec 2012 13:39:59 EDT

danclan posted : They don't need to force them to directly to peer. Many will do so because it makes economic and customer sense.

Conversely, Comcast and others don't necessarily care that these competitors have slow connections. It serves their interests for them to be purposely slow so that their last mile customers will want make use of Comcast's VOD services vs. buying content elsewhere.

They also can delay router upgrades for the same reasons.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Mon, 17 Dec 2012 13:24:50 EDT

batsona posted : DataRiker says:
The over subscription problems has nothing to do with the last mile copper, they are at the connections between Comcast and Tata Communications which is one of the major tier 1 providers. Comcast purposefully saturates there connections to Tata to try and force people like Google/Netflix/etc... to peer directly with them by having there users bitch about buffering in videos or slowness viewing images or playing games.
------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly! If John Q. Public runs a webserver that's on 100mbit Ethernet in a co-location facility, access to this webserver won't get any faster, if his 1,000 customers all sign up for 5,000,000/3,000,000 FIOS in the year 2030. Another analogy would that if you give everyone on the highway Mustang Cobras, and tell them to go 120Mph on the highway, this means everyone can get hamburgers at Sonic twice as fast, right? Unfortunately no....

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Mon, 17 Dec 2012 08:52:30 EDT

aaronwt posted :

said by bigdaddy:

said by ITALIAN926:

The truth and reality sucks, I know. Deal with it pirates.

Again with the Pirates ?

There are other legal uses of your bandwidth besides P2P and file sharing. Such as slingbox's, streaming your own media to mobile devices, VPN from a vacation home take your pick. Again Please enough with the Copyrights !

:)

Don't forget about backups. Most of my upload bandwidth is used for my cloud storage.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Mon, 17 Dec 2012 02:16:14 EDT

serge87 posted : Just a F.Y.I: Not everyone who gets the 150 or 300Mbit speed plans torrents or uses their connections illegally :)

[att=1]

said by cramer:

Bottom line... most cable operators have been increasing their upstream rates because they have to. The very low upstream speed inhibits faster downstream speeds. (TCP ACK traffic is not zero.) In the real world (where there's more than one tcp connection), 384k up begins to be a problem around 10M down.

Good point. In my experience, TCP ACK traffic is roughly 6-8% of total download bandwidth being used so your analogy is spot on :)

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Sun, 16 Dec 2012 21:32:22 EDT

birdfeedr posted :

said by ITALIAN926:

CAPS IN MY NAME means what? does that mean that people who have all lowercase are mental midgets?

It was a subtle dig where all caps is shouting and you persist in kicking and screaming about torrent people who kick and scream about upload/downloads. Lowercase usernames do not signify mental midgets. Hell, I can't even spell birdfeeder correctly, so username really doesn't mean much anyway. It's just a tag.

I apologize for painting you with such a broad brush. In some matters, silence is the golden rule. I forgot that for a moment.

Carry on. :)

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Sun, 16 Dec 2012 19:31:14 EDT

cramer posted : Actually, it's a lot more complicated. And has next to nothing to do with "pirates". While bittorrenters are a vocal crowd, EVERYONE benefits from higher upstream rates. Few people realized just how much upstream traffic they generate daily. Nor do they realize just how much of their time is spent/wasted simply waiting for data to get through. Use dialup for a day if you doubt me.

Bottom line... most cable operators have been increasing their upstream rates because they have to. The very low upstream speed inhibits faster downstream speeds. (TCP ACK traffic is not zero.) In the real world (where there's more than one tcp connection), 384k up begins to be a problem around 10M down.

[Edit: For the record, VZ demo'd a 10G MDU a very long time ago. The demand / need for 10G residential service just isn't there today.]

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Sun, 16 Dec 2012 19:20:11 EDT

ITALIAN926 posted : Bottom line BD, is Verizon knows entirely how much bandwidth is being used up on each PON. They will upgrade when they feel its necessary, and as of right now, there are basically no over-subscription issues.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Sun, 16 Dec 2012 19:03:05 EDT

bigdaddy posted :

said by ITALIAN926:

The truth and reality sucks, I know. Deal with it pirates.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Sun, 16 Dec 2012 18:43:38 EDT

ITALIAN926 posted : Youre right, its not related at all. Sigh.

How the internet is actually USED, and what applications ARE USED, have everything to do with this topic, and what upgrades Verizon has planned.

CAPS IN MY NAME means what? does that mean that people who have all lowercase are mental midgets?

The only reason these companies bump their speeds are for bragging rights, and for advertising purposes.
A mere coincedence that when VZ releases 300Mbps, Comcast comes out with their own FTTP at 305Mbps, right?

The truth and reality sucks, I know. Deal with it pirates.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Sun, 16 Dec 2012 15:23:35 EDT

birdfeedr posted :

said by ITALIAN926:

Technical in nature??. I asked you a question, what % of people are using that upload , 24-7, 7 days a week. Moral: no oversubscription issues. End of story.

It's mere coincidence, I'm sure, that a person with username in all caps engages in an OT conversation and disregards the request to get back on topic. We've seen this before.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Sun, 16 Dec 2012 13:22:44 EDT

ITALIAN926 posted : Technical in nature??. I asked you a question, what % of people are using that upload , 24-7, 7 days a week. Moral: no oversubscription issues. End of story.

We all know the torrent people disagree, but the overwhelming majority of customers still use the net, TO BROWSE. Very little upload is being utilized.

My cousin is a photographer. Uploads heavy duty files in email, he uses his connection maybe 5 minutes a day, the rest of the time its basically completely unused for browsing purposes.

The people kicking and screaming over upload/download speeds ARE the Torrent people. This takes away revenue from the MSO's, and entertainment/software industry. Then nobody understand why these companies are extremely slow to upgrade networks. So funny.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Sun, 16 Dec 2012 01:16:10 EDT

serge87 posted : There is no XGPON yet because GPON hasn't been exhausted yet, end of story.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 22:34:10 EDT

bigdaddy posted : Guy's Let's not get into Copyright's here. My point was Purely Technical in nature. That said my concern is of over subscription of VZ FiOS's network and the of lack XG-PON for FiOS Quantum.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 22:01:16 EDT

McBane posted : It really depends on the area you live. When I lived on a college apartment complex that had FiOS when it first came out we maxed the BPON upload constantly, and this was back when 25 up was the max. Guess what? It was pretty much all copyright infringers. If you live in an area with a lot of high tech or IT workers your going to see that problem dramatically increase. Now we have Netflix and streaming services so it helps alleviate the problem, though. This was back in '06 through '09 when I lived in those apartments.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 18:36:23 EDT

ITALIAN926 posted : What % of people do you think are uploading more than 35Mbps at any given moment? The only people eating this bandwidth constantly are the copyright infringers, and fortunately, the majority of people in this country still follow the laws.

You dont think this company can monitor usage for the entire PON? come on now.

... and by the way, Netflix uses up the most bandwidth on the net, Max 5Mbps per user. If every Verizon customer was streaming netflix all at the same time, it would have zero impact on their PONS, even BPON.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Sat, 15 Dec 2012 18:22:14 EDT

bigdaddy posted :

said by Sammer:

said by ITALIAN926:

With GPON having to share 2.4Gbps among 16 or 32 customers, I doubt very much they will offer that much individual speed.

GPON can be up to 1 Gbps symmetrical but yes it would be overbooked if 16 users all used that at exactly the same time.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 16:28:57 EDT

Jackarino posted : Possibly, Im not sure.

My shore house in Ocean Grove is on GPON
--
Romney - Ryan 2012
Christie 2016

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:32:30 EDT

mig288 posted : I need that connection.. lol. That's some serious speed there.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 15:32:15 EDT

Sammer posted :

said by ITALIAN926:

With GPON having to share 2.4Gbps among 16 or 32 customers, I doubt very much they will offer that much individual speed.

GPON can be up to 1 Gbps symmetrical but yes it would be overbooked if 16 users all used that at exactly the same time.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 14:37:38 EDT

bohratom posted :

said by Jackarino:

Im still waiting for my CO to got GPON!

+1, U served out of Freehold I take it?

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 02:08:20 EDT

serge87 posted : Having just gotten the 300mbps plan I'm still interested in this(even though it's rumor at best) :)

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Wed, 12 Dec 2012 01:55:35 EDT

bigdaddy posted : Bump :)

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 23:24:57 EDT

serge87 posted :

said by Anon51 :

This guy is just blowing smoke with his "inside person". If this 500 meg tier was in the works, only a handful of people would know about it. Which means they would not tell their friend to post on a forum.

That's why I'd love to hear what nycdave has to say about this, because he's a no-nonsense guy :)

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 23:06:30 EDT

DataRiker posted : I have no doubts they had a maxed out Router/Link. Almost every ISP experiences this from time to time.

What I doubt is that it was sustained and still going on to this day, and I seriously doubt the motives suggested here.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 23:01:28 EDT

Smith6612 posted : Search for data on what happened to Comcast's service when they dropped Level3. TATA was their dump truck provider to the non-peered providers. Folks saw some nice speed hits and some websites that I currently cannot remember supplied some data that shows the ports to Comcast from TATA were running maxed at night. I'm sure it's not happening now but that is what happened.

When Sprint had an issue with Cogent back several years ago, you just lost access to Cogent's network. They didn't use another provider to get onto their network, but Sprint is probably a different Tier provider.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 20:45:27 EDT

DataRiker posted :

said by zippoboy7:

said by Fyi :

Comcast is using 100% fiber for the 300+ tier, so I doubt it will share the over subscription problems of its copper

The over subscription problems has nothing to do with the last mile copper, they are at the connections between Comcast and Tata Communications which is one of the major tier 1 providers. Comcast purposefully saturates there connections to Tata to try and force people like Google/Netflix/etc... to peer directly with them by having there users bitch about buffering in videos or slowness viewing images or playing games.

Proof?

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 17:58:49 EDT

anon posted : This guy is just blowing smoke with his "inside person". If this 500 meg tier was in the works, only a handful of people would know about it. Which means they would not tell their friend to post on a forum.

I wonder if his friend also mentioned the caps hinted at by President Bob Mudge in the video announcing Quantam back in May. Nobody reported on that.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 17:53:16 EDT

iansltx posted : The issue at this point is that, for places that are getting the 305M treatment with Comcast, the cable company is setting up a full-on MetroE circuit to someone's house. That circuit can run up to one gigabit per second based on the hardware that they will install (router excepted). That means that Verizon has much less of a capacity lead when comparing their GPON network to Comcast's highest-end tier; either you've got a gigabit of capacity to one user or 2.5x that down and 1.25x that up shared between a few dozen.

That said, 500 Mbps down and 100 Mbps up would be very doable over GPON and force Comcast to up its MetroE-to-the-Home tier to compete. If Comcast upgrades its $300 per month tier again, it's easier for Verizon to swap out GPON for XGPON on a surgical basis (e.g. when someone orders a gigabit tier in an area, for $300 per month) than it is for Comcast to run fiber to the home anyway. In Verizon's case, they swap out one piece of equipment at the CO, plus maybe ONTs for the area. In Comcast's case, they have to string fiber. Plus XGPON has 10 Gbps of capacity on the downstream (roughly) and 2.5 Gbps on the upstream side...Comcast may have 10 Gbps symmetric going into an entire CMTS but at that point they're limited by the last mile again, which is too much work for practically no payoff.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 17:17:04 EDT

brianiscool posted : Comcast can't even come close to FIOS pricing. Plus I can guarantee you that bandwidth increase will have a small cap on it.

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:44:36 EDT

zippoboy7 posted :

said by Fyi :

Comcast is using 100% fiber for the 300+ tier, so I doubt it will share the over subscription problems of its copper

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:00:09 EDT

anon posted : Comcast is using 100% fiber for the 300+ tier, so I doubt it will share the over subscription problems of its copper

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:59:48 EDT

brianiscool posted : Wow, that is a lot of bandwidth. I thought when I was using my 153Mbps I was knocking everyone off in my area. LOL

Re: FIOS internet - how much faster can FIOS get?

Tue, 09 Oct 2012 10:08:05 EDT

zippoboy7 posted :

said by houkouonchi:

said by batsona:

The limiting factor, is going to be the egress from the Verizon network. Sure, VZ could offer 500Mbit up/down, but what would it look like, when 100,000 people up and down the East coast for instance, try to stream their favorite TV shows & do other Internet stuff all at the same time.. All that traffic has to exit Verizon's network to get to the carrier that hosts that content. Unless there's a way to bond 50 OC192's together between carriers, and/or all carriers upgrade to multi-terrabit backbones, huge bandwidth only spells one thing: massive oversubscription. My original 768/90K DSL connection went to sleep at 5PM, so I went to cable-modem (in ~1999), and it too ended up going to sleep at 5PM. [For now], FiOS doesn't do this... yet(?)

10 gigabit ethernet is the new standard these days with 40 gige and 100gige options as well. You can provide for *a lot* of customers with a single 10 gige link. VZ also balances load between multiple routers.

You can also easily put up to 8 links in a bonded (802.3ad) port-channel/lacp which could easily do 80 gig with 10 gig links. VZ is alter.net which is a tier1 provider. They have *massive* pipelines to all the other tier 1 transit providers (as its required to have settlement free peering with other tier1's to be a tier1 transit provider).

Just to add to this, Verizon has been in the news about its upgrades to 100Gbit between major US cites POPS »insanetek.com/news/1-web-and-ind···o-the-us as well as between the US and Europe »www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2030549/···k-europe While I do not know how far along they are on this project it will bring substantial increases in compacity when its done.

Also to the op, Comcast's 305Mbit tier is worthless to most people who want low latency or to actually use that 305Mbit speed since they oversubscribe there main connections to try to force people to peer with them at ridiculous rates. For this all you have to do is look at people bitching about 300-1000ms ping's during peak hours. »tech.slashdot.org/story/10/12/14···y-choice while this is from 2010 the same crap happens to this day even with Comcast denying the issue. I get people who bitch at my Job on a weekly basis who use Comcast at home and have major problems at night with lag while connecting to our VPN (We have ~40Gbit to Verizon and Cogent both major backbone providers and only Comcast users bitch about lag). To add to this when I asked for a quote for 1Gbit from Comcast (Who has fiber in the building) the price was more then I pay for a single 10Gbit circuit from Verizon and about 2x the cost of Cogent.