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Stem Bolt
Aka Smiling Bob
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

1 edit

Astraweb automates DMCA removals

»forums.newsbin.com/viewtopic.php···&t=30991

I thought this might be of interest to some.

An Astraweb representative posted that they have an entirely automated DMCA removal process. When they receive a take down notice the content is automatically removed. There is no human involvement. This allows them to remove content within minutes of receiving any automated take down notices.

The Astraweb's reps. (stevef) post is the 4th post in the thread.



darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
Premium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS

Well, if nothing else that thread proves that there are some people who have some serious entitlement issues.

More simply put, if you're dissatisfied with a service, why keep using it? And if you're not using it, why keep bitching about it?

Wow. Just wow.
--
♬ Music is life ♬


sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111

1 recommendation

reply to Stem Bolt

Yea I posted in that thread the part of the DMCA which pertains to Take Down requests and how they are handled. Stevef admits that they can't hire people to handle them so they do it pretty much through a bot or some other automatic process. Also the company responsible for these auto-take down requests is called The Morganelli Group. I won't post their link because I don't want these guys getting higher results on searches.

Anyway, on their website, it says this,

quote:
We have worked closely with several large providers to ensure our requests were handled swiftly. We have personally spoken with every major Usenet provider in the world through years of connections. We have assisted providers with API calls to ensure content has been removed promptly.
Later in the paragraph it says this,

quote:
With our connections, our team that monitors over 17 indexing sites

I have no problems with DMCA Take Down requests when done properly. What I do have a problem with, is the automatic take down of ANYTHING without review just because some company says so. That does not in anyway follow the DMCA guidelines for Take Down requests.

FYI, I dropped Astraweb because of this. They have every right to do whatever they want and delete files to their hearts content. Just like I have every right to take my business elsewhere.

@darcilicious

I don't see it as bitching about some sort of entitlement. I see it as a total disregard for their customers in favor of some company. And the fact that they do not even follow DMCA guidelines for those Take Downs. Yea you are right, vote with your wallet, which I did.

knarf829

join:2007-06-02
kudos:1

I've got no problem with a customer lobbying - even aggressively - a company to change policies with which that customer disagrees. At least you gave Astraweb a chance to meet your needs before dumping them.

I also understand companies being scared of Clinton's fascist DMCA.

Astraweb is wrong for doing this. I hope they see it eventually.


newster

join:2011-09-26
reply to Stem Bolt

There are two sides to this problem or automated copyright processing.

On the other end, the copyright enforcers are using keyword-search based bots to file automated DMCA notices, and per the DMCA, there is no disincentive for them to keep "cranking up the volume" and having these programmed bots send out a very high percentage of false copyright claims, so they have every incentive to do so.

As long as these DMCA claims are made "in good faith" (which they usually are) having the bot's collateral-damage rate of 10%, 50%, 90%, or probably even 100%, carries no monetary penalty to the company making the false claim.

So the sender can err with impunity, while to the receiver, a single mistake can cost them $150,000 per incident. Sure, it's completely ridiculous and extremely unfair, but that's the law, a law that was written before anyone ever considered the possibility of using bot-filed legal claims.

And with the never-ending surge in erroneous bot-filed DMCAs, at least Google has now declared "enough is enough" and is now reviewing all claims it receives, and rejecting many.



swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS

2 recommendations

said by newster:

carries no monetary penalty to the company making the false claim.

i suppose there could be some monetary damages, or at the very least, some litigation if a rights owner has their work being removed due to false complaints. After all, removals are being done with the filer swearing under penalty of perjury BUT, as individuals, who has the time or money to do so?

»www.plagiarismtoday.com/2010/06/···notices/

In this case, I am inclined to think some sort of customized version of the Newsnab indexing software is being used and then scripts are hitting off keywords and then mailing out. Lets face it, on the surface, it is a brilliant set up to achieve what their goal is. BUT...if everything is tied to what a header says...does a name necessarily mean it is infringing content?

if i want to share my collection of self shot Unruly & Ferocious Cats with the usenet community, what happens to my posts?
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111

1 edit

Exactly and what if I or someone encrypted the rar with a password and named it similar to some movie, album, or event. Someone should do this just to test to see if they (the so called copyright holder or proxy acting in behalf) actually check to see if the material is actually infringing on their copyright. I bet they don't.

Newster said:

quote:
As long as these DMCA claims are made "in good faith" (which they usually are) having the bot's collateral-damage rate of 10%, 50%, 90%, or probably even 100%, carries no monetary penalty to the company making the false claim.

They are not in this case. Matter of fact, I believe that the Morganelli Group have direct access to Astraweb's servers through their so called "API". Also no one is checking to even see if the claims are valid or using the correct process defined in the DMCA.

quote:
Under the notice and takedown procedure, a copyright
owner submits a notification under penalty of perjury, including a list of specified
elements, to the service provider’s designated agent. Failure to comply substantially
with the statutory requirements means that the notification will not be considered in
determining the requisite level of knowledge by the service provider

There is no agent in this case.

Also there are penalties for misrepresentation.

quote:
Penalties are provided for knowing material misrepresentations in either a
notice or a counter notice. Any person who knowingly materially misrepresents that
material is infringing, or that it was removed or blocked through mistake or misidentification, is liable for any resulting damages (including costs and attorneys’ fees) incurred
by the alleged infringer, the copyright owner or its licensee, or the service provider.
(Section 512(f))


Anon00
Premium
join:2001-09-25
USA
kudos:1
reply to Stem Bolt

Cancelled my subscription.


brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1
reply to Stem Bolt

I never liked Astraweb from the beginning. I noticed they were missing a lot of file. Slow download speeds and high pricing.



TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

2 edits

said by brianiscool:

I never liked Astraweb from the beginning. I noticed they were missing a lot of file. Slow download speeds and high pricing.

well the price is fine I was on the $96 a year plan. looks like time to find a new usenet serve. All the studios have to do is give Astraweb a list of all their movies and boom no more downloading of hardly anything.

So whats a serve with a good price and most likely won't get hit with a lot of take downs?

Man reading that thread the Astraweb worker is acting like a real dumb-ass.

Anon00
Premium
join:2001-09-25
USA
kudos:1

2 recommendations

Trying out Sunny Usenet.

Gibinews seems to have issues.

I've heard SSL-News.info is good. I'll probably try them once my Gibinews subscription ends next month.

By the way, from what I've seen and read, Astraweb goes a step further and doesn't just remove the articles, they fill it with dummy info. That is the proverbial straw.

I'm staying away from companies with a US presence. Who would have guessed that an administration that loaded their DOJ heads with RIAA and MPAA lawyers would be so heavy-handed.

Threatening the very freedom of the Internet by allowing law enforcement agencies to seize domains with no real cause, and no timely due process, with the government being butt buddies of the Entertainment industry... sigh. I guess they don't make enough money.



TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by Anon00:

Trying out Sunny Usenet.

Gibinews seems to have issues.

I've heard SSL-News.info is good. I'll probably try them once my Gibinews subscription ends next month.

By the way, from what I've seen and read, Astraweb goes a step further and doesn't just remove the articles, they fill it with dummy info. That is the proverbial straw.

I'm staying away from companies with a US presence. Who would have guessed that an administration that loaded their DOJ heads with RIAA and MPAA lawyers would be so heavy-handed.

Threatening the very freedom of the Internet by allowing law enforcement agencies to seize domains with no real cause, and no timely due process, with the government being butt buddies of the Entertainment industry... sigh. I guess they don't make enough money.

can you make the site English? I can't understand sit on there. not sure I missed a link to make it English or something.

Louey

join:2002-12-09
Canada

1 edit
reply to Stem Bolt

With Astraweb now and this explains why I can't get a movie. Get text files filled with Taken down due to DMCA notice. Guess I'll find somewhere else to go. Anyone recommend Swintec's provider or something else? *EDIT* Tried going to usenetnow.net and signing up but get a script error.



swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VoicePulse
·Sprint Mobile Br..
·RapidVPS

1 edit
reply to TOPDAWG

said by TOPDAWG:

So whats a serve with a good price and most likely won't get hit with a lot of take downs?

IMO...the answers to questions like this get misconstrued after the fact and then forums get filled with "So and So ignores requests!". This certainly didnt help Astraweb out with several years of this being said. Not one provider will ignore them IF received.
--
Usenet Block Accounts | Unlimited Accounts

Rojo

join:2009-04-14
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to TOPDAWG

said by TOPDAWG:

So whats a server with a good price and most likely won't get hit with a lot of take downs?

It used to be Astraweb.

Anon00
Premium
join:2001-09-25
USA
kudos:1
reply to TOPDAWG

said by TOPDAWG:

said by Anon00:

Trying out Sunny Usenet.

Gibinews seems to have issues.

I've heard SSL-News.info is good. I'll probably try them once my Gibinews subscription ends next month.

By the way, from what I've seen and read, Astraweb goes a step further and doesn't just remove the articles, they fill it with dummy info. That is the proverbial straw.

I'm staying away from companies with a US presence. Who would have guessed that an administration that loaded their DOJ heads with RIAA and MPAA lawyers would be so heavy-handed.

Threatening the very freedom of the Internet by allowing law enforcement agencies to seize domains with no real cause, and no timely due process, with the government being butt buddies of the Entertainment industry... sigh. I guess they don't make enough money.

can you make the site English? I can't understand sit on there. not sure I missed a link to make it English or something.

I used Chrome (I normally use Firefox) to load that site and translate it for me. Works very well.

Sunny 10 connections can get me 2.5MBps
--
"Ah, women. They make the highs higher and the lows more frequent." - Friedrich Nietzsche
"'It's the law' is just an excuse for the unintelligent and unimaginative to remain that way" - Me


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

1 edit
reply to swintec

said by swintec:

said by TOPDAWG:

So whats a serve with a good price and most likely won't get hit with a lot of take downs?

IMO...the answers to questions like this get misconstrued after the fact and then forums get filled with "So and So ignores requests!". This certainly didnt help Astraweb out with several years of this being said. Not one provider will ignore them IF received.

well they also turned into one of the biggest usenet providers too. well ok I'll say it this way what one does not use a auto remove like Astraweb now does as long as a file is up a few hours I can still get it.
AH the order page for sunny will not translate. I'd try it for a month but order page I've no idea WTF I'm looking at.


swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5

As far as I can tell sunny usenet only takes bank transfer now.



TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by swintec:

As far as I can tell sunny usenet only takes bank transfer now.

yeah to bad looks like to hard to join them now.

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
reply to swintec

said by swintec:

As far as I can tell sunny usenet only takes bank transfer now.

Yea for some reason, they don't have their Visa/Mastercard logos on their site anymore. Weird...

Anyway XS Usenet is a reseller for the same provider Sunny resells for XLNed. Someone posted this awhile back so check out the Holland providers »www.abload.de/image.php?img=usenetwajgg.png


DvST8

join:2000-03-08
Staten Island, NY

I cancelled my Astraweb account yesterday and went with XS Usenet.

Ended up saving me a good amount.
Was paying $11 a month for Astrweb, XS is $5.44, so pretty much half price!

A year costs $65.23 USD after code switch (upgrade a free account).
They still take Paypal.

So far after some quick tests, 18 connects maxes out my 85 Mb connection.



TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

1 edit

hey can you do a test and see if you can grab a file? I know one that is being removed every time on Astrweb. how are you getting it so cheap looked at their prices did you go for a year sub?

hm tried the file that is always being removed no go on the XS free account so I'd guess same goes for pay one.


sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111

Their free account only has 10 days retention. Otherwise their retention is 900 days, though probably not for headers.



TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by sandman_1:

Their free account only has 10 days retention. Otherwise their retention is 900 days, though probably not for headers.

the stuff was just like a few hours old and a few days both fall in the 10 day thing.

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
reply to Stem Bolt

Mind posting the link?



TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by sandman_1:

Mind posting the link?

user on here tested it for me and both failed so looks like everyone is removing those files.

newster

join:2011-09-26
reply to swintec

said by swintec:

said by newster:

carries no monetary penalty to the company making the false claim.

i suppose there could be some monetary damages, or at the very least, some litigation if a rights owner has their work being removed due to false complaints. After all, removals are being done with the filer swearing under penalty of perjury BUT, as individuals, who has the time or money to do so?

I meant to say that the law does not impose statutory damages to the copyright owner (or hired representative) that makes erroneous DMCA removal requests, as the DMCA imposes on the party accused of hosting infringing material if it is not removed.

So without the benefit of statutory damages, the party hurt by a bogus copyright enforcement must prove actual damages, which is a far higher threshold of proof for (usually) a far lower settlement.

I've yet to see anyone ever going to court, even in the most egregious examples of over-zealous copyright enforcement, such as MediaDefender's DoS attack on Revision3's server which knocked it offline for several days.

The "swearing under penalty of perjury" only applies to whether a party is authorized to make the claim of owning the copyright (or representing the owner) and thereby making the claim "in good faith." It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the claim is accurate, as sloppy mistakes (no matter how careless) are not perjury violations. But since many of these complaints are processed entirely by bots, how could the law possibly penalize a computer for making a bad judgment, even if it were liable (which it is not of course)?

The main problem, in my opinion, lies in the law allowing a computer to make legal decisions. Hopefully this trend will be reversed before we descend into some kind of RoboCop like dystopia.

said by TOPDAWG:


so looks like everyone is removing those files.

Usenet itself is centered squarely in the copyright cartel's crosshairs right now, and every server will be hit sooner or later, so the only real difference between one NSP and another is how long it takes them to process DMCAs and remove the material.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

1 edit
reply to Stem Bolt

damn while all the usenet providers will remove stuff when asked seems like Astraweb is going above and beyond everyone else right now. looks like usenet may be useless soon.

No idea what provider to switch to now or if any will be better then the other.


singerie3

join:2008-10-12
Saint-Constant, QC

said by TOPDAWG:

damn while all the usenet providers will remove stuff when asked seems like Astraweb is going above and beyond everyone else right now. looks like usenet may be useless soon.

No idea what provider to switch to now or if any will be better then the other.

maybe having a block account on a different backbone will help.


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by singerie3:

said by TOPDAWG:

damn while all the usenet providers will remove stuff when asked seems like Astraweb is going above and beyond everyone else right now. looks like usenet may be useless soon.

No idea what provider to switch to now or if any will be better then the other.

maybe having a block account on a different backbone will help.

may not help a user on here tried the files I was not able to get on Astraweb on XS and he was also not able to gets the files.