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DvST8

join:2000-03-08
Staten Island, NY
reply to sandman_1

Re: Astraweb automates DMCA removals

I cancelled my Astraweb account yesterday and went with XS Usenet.

Ended up saving me a good amount.
Was paying $11 a month for Astrweb, XS is $5.44, so pretty much half price!

A year costs $65.23 USD after code switch (upgrade a free account).
They still take Paypal.

So far after some quick tests, 18 connects maxes out my 85 Mb connection.


TOPDAWG
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join:2005-04-27
Calgary, AB
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1 edit
hey can you do a test and see if you can grab a file? I know one that is being removed every time on Astrweb. how are you getting it so cheap looked at their prices did you go for a year sub?

hm tried the file that is always being removed no go on the XS free account so I'd guess same goes for pay one.

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
Their free account only has 10 days retention. Otherwise their retention is 900 days, though probably not for headers.


TOPDAWG
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said by sandman_1:

Their free account only has 10 days retention. Otherwise their retention is 900 days, though probably not for headers.

the stuff was just like a few hours old and a few days both fall in the 10 day thing.

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
reply to Stem Bolt
Mind posting the link?


TOPDAWG
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said by sandman_1:

Mind posting the link?

user on here tested it for me and both failed so looks like everyone is removing those files.

newster

join:2011-09-26
reply to swintec
said by swintec:

said by newster:

carries no monetary penalty to the company making the false claim.

i suppose there could be some monetary damages, or at the very least, some litigation if a rights owner has their work being removed due to false complaints. After all, removals are being done with the filer swearing under penalty of perjury BUT, as individuals, who has the time or money to do so?

I meant to say that the law does not impose statutory damages to the copyright owner (or hired representative) that makes erroneous DMCA removal requests, as the DMCA imposes on the party accused of hosting infringing material if it is not removed.

So without the benefit of statutory damages, the party hurt by a bogus copyright enforcement must prove actual damages, which is a far higher threshold of proof for (usually) a far lower settlement.

I've yet to see anyone ever going to court, even in the most egregious examples of over-zealous copyright enforcement, such as MediaDefender's DoS attack on Revision3's server which knocked it offline for several days.

The "swearing under penalty of perjury" only applies to whether a party is authorized to make the claim of owning the copyright (or representing the owner) and thereby making the claim "in good faith." It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the claim is accurate, as sloppy mistakes (no matter how careless) are not perjury violations. But since many of these complaints are processed entirely by bots, how could the law possibly penalize a computer for making a bad judgment, even if it were liable (which it is not of course)?

The main problem, in my opinion, lies in the law allowing a computer to make legal decisions. Hopefully this trend will be reversed before we descend into some kind of RoboCop like dystopia.

said by TOPDAWG:


so looks like everyone is removing those files.

Usenet itself is centered squarely in the copyright cartel's crosshairs right now, and every server will be hit sooner or later, so the only real difference between one NSP and another is how long it takes them to process DMCAs and remove the material.


TOPDAWG
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1 edit
reply to Stem Bolt
damn while all the usenet providers will remove stuff when asked seems like Astraweb is going above and beyond everyone else right now. looks like usenet may be useless soon.

No idea what provider to switch to now or if any will be better then the other.

singerie3

join:2008-10-12
Saint-Constant, QC
said by TOPDAWG:

damn while all the usenet providers will remove stuff when asked seems like Astraweb is going above and beyond everyone else right now. looks like usenet may be useless soon.

No idea what provider to switch to now or if any will be better then the other.

maybe having a block account on a different backbone will help.


TOPDAWG
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said by singerie3:

said by TOPDAWG:

damn while all the usenet providers will remove stuff when asked seems like Astraweb is going above and beyond everyone else right now. looks like usenet may be useless soon.

No idea what provider to switch to now or if any will be better then the other.

maybe having a block account on a different backbone will help.

may not help a user on here tried the files I was not able to get on Astraweb on XS and he was also not able to gets the files.

Rojo

join:2009-04-14
New York, NY
kudos:1
reply to singerie3
All block accounts are provided by the same nsp's, so what's the diff?

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
reply to TOPDAWG
I was able to pull the missing files for the last UFC event with XS Usenet. So I am curious as to what was pulled so quickly in your case. Also used another free server called to Usenet Storm to help get the files.


TOPDAWG
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said by sandman_1:

I was able to pull the missing files for the last UFC event with XS Usenet. So I am curious as to what was pulled so quickly in your case. Also used another free server called to Usenet Storm to help get the files.

check your PM.


TOPDAWG
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reply to Stem Bolt
well tiring a week free trail on one usenet provider and so far so good. Stuff everyone is removing works on them. Stuff that is from 10 days ago everyone removed is still working. So they may remove but they must do it slow.

Not sure who to use right now. Astraweb is pretty damn worthless now.


El Quintron
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said by TOPDAWG:

Not sure who to use right now. Astraweb is pretty damn worthless now.

Do you know when this started?

I'm not really seeing much damage right now.

Also it would be nice to figure out where everyone is going...
--
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El Quintron
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said by El Quintron:

Also it would be nice to figure out where everyone is going...

Not to troll my own response but I think I'm going to be giving XS news a try... I'll post some feedback.
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have


TOPDAWG
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said by El Quintron:

said by El Quintron:

Also it would be nice to figure out where everyone is going...

Not to troll my own response but I think I'm going to be giving XS news a try... I'll post some feedback.

a member tried some files that did not work on Astraweb on XS for me did not work on them ether. I'm doing a free one week trail of www.usenetbucket.com and it pulling everything even the removed stuff. will try hitnews too then pick one of them to use.

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
reply to Stem Bolt
Stuff posted on NZBMatrix, not all but some, gets the axe quick. The copyright troll outfit The Morganelli Group visits NZBMatrix often and DMCAs stuff posted there. Someone I know posted something that they watch out for on NZBMatrix and it was taken down within 30min of uploading.

It is the ease of use sites like NZBMatrix that are hurting everyone. People really need to stop using those sites and learn how to do a raw search.


El Quintron
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reply to TOPDAWG
said by TOPDAWG:

a member tried some files that did not work on Astraweb on XS for me did not work on them ether. I'm doing a free one week trail of www.usenetbucket.com and it pulling everything even the removed stuff. will try hitnews too then pick one of them to use.

Good to know, I'll check them out as well... what's the retention on usenetbucket?

edit: got the rentention stats, any reason why most of their packages only include 12 connections?

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
reply to Stem Bolt
Check this out in that Newsbin thread

quote:
Re: Does Astraweb have its priorities backward?
by Semel » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:06 am

i conducted a test and uploaded fake copyrighted materials. Meaning not really copyrighted but using very similar headers

They were taken down. So, no due process, no reviewing, ...

So there you go folks. No review whatsoever for anything submitted for a take down.

This could be the thing that brings Astraweb down and I don't think stevef realizes it.

@TOPDAWG

Hey I didn't notice it before but those usenetbucket plans have data caps. The ones that don't aren't cheap.


swintec
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said by sandman_1:

Check this out in that Newsbin thread

quote:
Re: Does Astraweb have its priorities backward?
by Semel » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:06 am

i conducted a test and uploaded fake copyrighted materials. Meaning not really copyrighted but using very similar headers

They were taken down. So, no due process, no reviewing, ...

So there you go folks. No review whatsoever for anything submitted for a take down.

This could be the thing that brings Astraweb down and I don't think stevef realizes it.

Assuming this is all clear cut and dry, I think this is a better case for how flawed the process that is being used to generate the notices is, IE using an indexer to find and send notices based on hits, all automatically.

Being that it looks fairly simple to show the huge flaws in the system being used, this is the type of stuff the Electronic Frontier Foundation loves and possibly can help get clarification on how the process should be done, work with the filers / agents or just flat out expose the abuse if it is so wide spread. Maybe it could facilitate change and clarification in the law in regards to robo-filing? Never know.

As for Astraweb, I can understand why so many are upset but this should be looked at as nothing more than a business decision that they chose to do..and with that in mind, decide how you wish to proceed as a customer; or not.
--
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Frink
Professor
Premium
join:2000-07-13
Scotch Plains, NJ
reply to sandman_1
said by sandman_1:

It is the ease of use sites like NZBMatrix that are hurting everyone. People really need to stop using those sites and learn how to do a raw search.

I have used newzbin do do raw searches, but find there is no difference in the content there versus the nzb'd content. Do you suggest some other alternative / method, or do you think I am just searching incorrectly? Thx.


darcilicious
Cyber Librarian
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join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:4
said by Frink:

said by sandman_1:

It is the ease of use sites like NZBMatrix that are hurting everyone. People really need to stop using those sites and learn how to do a raw search.

I have used newzbin do do raw searches, but find there is no difference in the content there versus the nzb'd content. Do you suggest some other alternative / method, or do you think I am just searching incorrectly? Thx.

The point that sandman_1 See Profile was making is that now that it's so easy to find stuff on Usenet, Usenet has become a bigger target for DMCA and the like.

Unfortunately, even if every user stopped using nzb indexers, the problem wouldn't just disappear -- the genie is out of the bottle and there's no going back.
--
♬ Music is life ♬

newster

join:2011-09-26
reply to Frink
said by Frink:


I have used newzbin do do raw searches, but find there is no difference in the content there versus the nzb'd content. Do you suggest some other alternative / method, or do you think I am just searching incorrectly? Thx.

NZB index sites pick up only a fraction of usenet binaries. A lot of content is not posted under obvious titles. Sometimes it's abbreviations or scene names. Browse through headers, and you'll see a lot of things that are not very descriptively labeled. Think of it like an Easter egg hunt.

newster

join:2011-09-26
reply to darcilicious
said by darcilicious:


Unfortunately, even if every user stopped using nzb indexers, the problem wouldn't just disappear -- the genie is out of the bottle and there's no going back.

If a usenet server were to renumber article IDs (and thus force users to abandon NZB sites and download headers instead) that would solve the problem right there, would it not?

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
reply to darcilicious

said by darcilicious See Profile

Unfortunately, even if every user stopped using nzb indexers, the problem wouldn't just disappear -- the genie is out of the bottle and there's no going back.

I think it would. I don't think the copyright trolls would browse through raw searches. It would be too cumbersome to that. If that were the case, they would of been doing it a long time before now. It is the easy manual index sites that make it easy for take downs because someone has already done the work for them.


darcilicious
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Premium
join:2001-01-02
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said by sandman_1:

said by darcilicious See Profile

Unfortunately, even if every user stopped using nzb indexers, the problem wouldn't just disappear -- the genie is out of the bottle and there's no going back.

I think it would. I don't think the copyright trolls would browse through raw searches. It would be too cumbersome to that. If that were the case, they would of been doing it a long time before now. It is the easy manual index sites that make it easy for take downs because someone has already done the work for them.

Or, they could just set up their own indexers; obviously, it's not that hard.
--
♬ Music is life ♬

newster

join:2011-09-26
reply to sandman_1
said by sandman_1:


I don't think the copyright trolls would browse through raw searches. It would be too cumbersome to that.

That's essentially what many of them are doing to Google with automated keyword-based DMCAs. I'm glad that Google is at least fighting back and calling B.S. and publicizing some of these ridiculous copyright claims.

said by sandman_1:


It is the easy manual index sites that make it easy for take downs because someone has already done the work for them.

People who upload NZBs might want to include some fake Message IDs in the NZB. A newsreader will ignore them, but the trolls will be caught submitting false claims, and causing the NSPs to delete valid non-infringing discussions.

I suggest starting with alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, people I wouldn't mind annoying by deleting their posts. :=)


TOPDAWG
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reply to Stem Bolt
well looks like it easy to get past the take downs for now. One movie that was being taken down as fast as it was uploaded all the uploader did was name the file in numbers and put it on the NZB site as the right name. It's still up and downloading fine.

Mind you that won't last forever


90115534
Someone is sabotaging me.Finding out who
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA
said by TOPDAWG:

well looks like it easy to get past the take downs for now. One movie that was being taken down as fast as it was uploaded all the uploader did was name the file in numbers and put it on the NZB site as the right name. It's still up and downloading fine.

Mind you that won't last forever

You bet your bottom dollar it won't last forever! I am ready for the war though!