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Insight6
join:2012-08-25

Insight6 to 67845017

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to 67845017

Re: [rant] Dont they get it - its not just the hardware

said by 67845017:

I think IT has passed you by. Your words indicate that you're too old to understand what is going on and why.

Your response is rude, obnoxious, and an unprovoked personal insult or attack on a fellow member. It has no basis in reality.

All though I may not agree with all of the points scross makes or have his level of technical expertise, education, and skill I don't have to in order to reach the conclusion that he is polite, responsive and posts on topic and in good-faith.

You on the other hand "talk," write and reason as a stereotypical abrasive attorney.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

1 edit

67845017 (banned)

Member

said by Insight6:

said by 67845017:

I think IT has passed you by. Your words indicate that you're too old to understand what is going on and why.

Your response is rude, obnoxious, and an unprovoked personal insult or attack on a fellow member. It has no basis in reality.

All though I may not agree with all of the points scross makes or have his level of technical expertise, education, and skill I don't have to in order to reach the conclusion that he is polite, responsive and posts on topic and in good-faith.

You on the other hand "talk," write and reason as a stereotypical abrasive attorney.

What? The old semi-joke is that a parent needs to ask their kid for answers if a computer question comes up. At some point the younger and next generation (especially in fast moving technology) know more than the older generation. Especially if the older generation has constantly been training to keep up with technology.

Actually, I think your response is rude and obnoxious. I have over 30 years of experience with computers and got me EE back in '87, so I know exactly what I'm talking about when I say that times may have passed him by. It happens all the time.
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross

Member

said by 67845017:

What? The old semi-joke is that a parent needs to ask their kid for answers if a computer question comes up. At some point the younger and next generation (especially in fast moving technology) know more than the older generation. Especially if the older generation has constantly been training to keep up with technology.

Actually, I think your response is rude and obnoxious. I have over 30 years of experience with computers and got me EE back in '87, so I know exactly what I'm talking about when I say that times may have passed him by. It happens all the time.

Just so you know, my very computer literate teenager asks me computer questions all the time - although she will on occasion surprise and delight me by having done considerable research and footwork on her own first. Lately she's been asking me a big one, too - "Daddy, when can I get a Mac like mom has?" But most of her questions center around "What the heck is wrong with this Windows computer anyway?", and this just gets exhausting after a while. A quick perusal of the event logs suggest problems with the registry (another fine Microsoft "innovation", that was), specifically the extended locking of same, but she won't let me have access to the machine long enough to really dig into it. Instead she just curses under her breath and reboots (or tries to), which is something of a way of life for Windows users, including myself.

Just so you know, she was initially delighted with Win7, which came installed on a new laptop that we bought for her. "Great", I thought, "maybe they've actually made some real improvements there!" Her happiness lasted about two weeks - or up to about the time I started having to put patches on it.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

said by scross:

said by 67845017:

What? The old semi-joke is that a parent needs to ask their kid for answers if a computer question comes up. At some point the younger and next generation (especially in fast moving technology) know more than the older generation. Especially if the older generation has constantly been training to keep up with technology.

Actually, I think your response is rude and obnoxious. I have over 30 years of experience with computers and got me EE back in '87, so I know exactly what I'm talking about when I say that times may have passed him by. It happens all the time.

Just so you know, my very computer literate teenager asks me computer questions all the time - although she will on occasion surprise and delight me by having done considerable research and footwork on her own first. Lately she's been asking me a big one, too - "Daddy, when can I get a Mac like mom has?" But most of her questions center around "What the heck is wrong with this Windows computer anyway?", and this just gets exhausting after a while. A quick perusal of the event logs suggest problems with the registry (another fine Microsoft "innovation", that was), specifically the extended locking of same, but she won't let me have access to the machine long enough to really dig into it. Instead she just curses under her breath and reboots (or tries to), which is something of a way of life for Windows users, including myself.

Just so you know, she was initially delighted with Win7, which came installed on a new laptop that we bought for her. "Great", I thought, "maybe they've actually made some real improvements there!" Her happiness lasted about two weeks - or up to about the time I started having to put patches on it.

Interesting. I have three kids ranging from 16 to 10 and all three of them have no problems with Windows 7. I draw my own conclusions from this . . .
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

scross

Member

said by 67845017:

Interesting. I have three kids ranging from 16 to 10 and all three of them have no problems with Windows 7. I draw my own conclusions from this . . .

She (like me) really pushes the envelope sometimes, doing multiple things at once and sometimes switching rapidly between them, and she expects her computer to keep up with her - only it doesn't, much of the time. If your kids don't do this, well ... they are your kids, after all, so I don't know what I'd expect from them. You can draw your own conclusions from that, too.

Remember the good old days, working with those "ancient" systems, which had limited processing power and limited memory and so on, but they were still so stable and reliable and almost never rolled over on you? And today we have super-fast quad-core processors and such, with gigabytes of memory, yet I generally don't see anywhere near the stability and reliability that I saw back then. It is Windows which robs you of most of those advantages.
67845017 (banned)
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL

67845017 (banned)

Member

said by scross:

said by 67845017:

Interesting. I have three kids ranging from 16 to 10 and all three of them have no problems with Windows 7. I draw my own conclusions from this . . .

She (like me) really pushes the envelope sometimes, doing multiple things at once and sometimes switching rapidly between them, and she expects her computer to keep up with her - only it doesn't, much of the time. If your kids don't do this, well ... they are your kids, after all, so I don't know what I'd expect from them. You can draw your own conclusions from that, too.

Remember the good old days, working with those "ancient" systems, which had limited processing power and limited memory and so on, but they were still so stable and reliable and almost never rolled over on you? And today we have super-fast quad-core processors and such, with gigabytes of memory, yet I generally don't see anywhere near the stability and reliability that I saw back then. It is Windows which robs you of most of those advantages.

Maybe you need to work with her some more or get some additional training yourself. After all . . . she is your child.

Your anti-MS bias is so strong that you don't probably really understand the underlying issues. See, I did x86 chip design at the gate level, PC design at the motherboard level and software/firmware design. I understand how these things work. I don't blindly hate MS.
said by scross:

said by 67845017:

said by scross:

it is Microsoft that comes in and lies

This says it all. You're one of "those", so there really isn't any reasonable conversation that can be held with you.

I base this on first-hand experience, my friend. One of the companies I used to work for sued Microsoft over this and won. Then the CIO left for another job and his replacement eventually tried to buddy up to Microsoft again after they made him some new empty promises, despite being warned against it. He eventually got fired for this, but not before wasting a ton of the company's money.

And so it goes ...

Case number and/or name?
scross
join:2002-09-13
USA

4 edits

scross

Member

said by 67845017:

Case number and/or name?

Dunno, that's probably been 10 or 15 years ago now, at least, and they may have settled out of court. I wasn't directly involved with it so I don't know all of the details, and what details I learned about it I heard second-hand, well after the fact. I do recall that part of it revolved around Microsoft trying to claim ownership of company code that they themselves didn't write, where the company had to step in and write code because the Microsoft products weren't up to snuff. Microsoft taking some company employees away with them may have played a role, too, but I don't really remember. I do know that Microsoft and those ex-employees were not highly thought of when I first got there, and it wasn't until we got a new CIO later (a PC guy who knew nothing else about computers - certainly nothing about the core systems we ran at the time) and several years went by before all of a sudden he wanted us to put Microsoft products everywhere (not that we didn't have enough already). He had made several expensive fumbles in the interim, and this was one of the last straws that broke the camel's back.