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nauru

join:2011-02-02

High proportion of packet errors over wireless network

Packets

Sent:
89000

Errors :
0
___

Received:
136000

Errors:
39000

To me this seems like a fairly large proportion of errors, and I'm wondering if there is anything I can do to reduce it? I'm using a Linksys WRT54GL wireless router, and these stats are from basic browsing using my laptop at home.

Thanks.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Have you done a site survey? You might want to try changing the channel once you have an idea of how many other active APs are in the area.

And really, as wonderful as the WRT54GL was in its day and despite the several that I have sitting on shelves in my basement, it's a dinosaur by today's standards. Refurb M10s can be had for $20 and so long as they are V1 they'll run Tomato or DD-WRT just fine.

nauru

join:2011-02-02
I didn't know about this, I paid more than 20 dollars for my 'dinosaur' router. Didn't see the m10 in the tomato compatible list, do you have a broader list? I'm not really interested in ddwrt. I just have a strong - if irrational - preference for tomato.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Are you in a densely populated area? Lots of RF interference? Have you looked into better Tomato-running platforms like the RT-N16? It will run Toastman or Shibby, no problem.

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08

2 edits
reply to nauru
Click for full size
What's your noise floor show up as on the info page ? (Its near the signal and measured in -db)

I have attached a picture of an access point that is has 3 smart phones and 2 laptop's connected.

If it is blank the build you have does not support that measurement with the driver it is using.

Some builds of dd-wrt do not support noise floor measurement's with Broadcom SOC's.

If this is the case do a site survey from the INFO wireless page and try to pick a channel as far away from the others as you can.

Each channel is 5mhz wide but your wifi need's 20mhz of radio spectrum per channel.

Channel's 1 to 11 are allowed for use in Canada and the USA.

»www.moonblinkwifi.com/misc_image···-map.JPG

6 and the surrounding channel's is the most used by home router's.

edit: If you want a better router a Asus RT-N12 is a good choice. Just flash it it with a recent build. B/G mode has the best range and with short preamble should get you about 22-25megabit's of performance on the wifi with the best rates with 75 mw of transmit power.

edit: The asus router also has a much better antenna.

nauru

join:2011-02-02

3 edits
Device list


Site survey


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Holy crap loud environment.

Try channel 8.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom
said by Gone:

Try channel 8.

Even better, avoid wireless for anything but mobile devices lol I'm assuming you're living in an apt bldg or a condo.. Cable runners might be your best option to tidy up the cabling as you take it to where your major devices are. Lol 17 wireless networks in the immediate area and he's wondering why his wireless performance is crap
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Huh? "Except for mobile devices" you mean the 80% of the devices that are out there now? Haha! His wireless performance is crap because he's most likely using 1, 6 or 11 along with everyone else except for the few wise enough to try channel 4 or 5.

Seriously, before anyone gets their knickers in a twist about the noise, try channel 8. It's far enough from the loud 11s to probably not be an issue with then, and the 6s are quiet enough that overlap shouldn't be much of an issue. Using 8 will most likely improve things tremendously. Failing that, there's always 5GHz. Hell, I'd be thinking of migrating to 5GHz now before one of the neighbours gets smart and tries channel 8 or 9 for themselves.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom
said by Gone:

Huh? "Except for mobile devices" you mean the 80% of the devices that are out there now? Haha! His wireless performance is crap because he's most likely using 1, 6 or 11 along with everyone else except for the few wise enough to try channel 4 or 5.

Mobile devices don't pass a whackload of traffic, so they can live with reduced performance. Laptops, desktops, SIP phones (or ATA's [shudders]) and media players are devices dependent on smooth performance.

I agree with the 2nd part of your statement but even switching to ch 8 is just a stopgap and not a good one compared to a wired connection.
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Wiring a laptop to Ethernet is just... silly. I agree you'd never want to hook up an ATA over a wireless connection like that, though.

The best thing would be to try channel 8. There's nothing else on the site survey that should cause issues so terrible as to produce the same results above on that channel, so he'd most likely be okay. I'd also invest in upgrading to an 802.11N AP (like the M10 I mentioned earlier, so long as it's V1 it'll run Tomato or DD-WRT just fine) or, even better, something dualband like an E4200 and plan to move to 5GHz in the not-too-distant future in case things get back on even 8.

Interference on 2.4GHz is a fact of life, nothing you can do about it. It doesn't mean you should do something so dumb as dragging a 100 foot Ethernet cable with your laptop around your home.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to nauru
said by nauru:

I didn't know about this, I paid more than 20 dollars for my 'dinosaur' router. Didn't see the m10 in the tomato compatible list, do you have a broader list? I'm not really interested in ddwrt. I just have a strong - if irrational - preference for tomato.

Forgot to reply to this. But yeah, I used to use DD-WRT and now that I'm using one of the Shibby builds of TomatoUSB I'll never use anything else. I run it on lots of different hardware - three M10 V1s (it *has* to be V1, V2 isn't compatible yet), a WRT320N, WRT610N and an E4200. The only hardware I have left running DD-WRT is Atheros-based stuff, like the DIR-615 at my in-laws.

E4200 is the way to go if you want to start migrating to 5GHz. $69 for a refurb from NCIX, and it's a great device at that price. Canada Computers usually has shitload of refurb M10s for $19.99, and every one I've checked out has been a V1. New in box are typically V2. There's a way to check from the serial number on the box, I can't remember off the top of my head but if you Google it you'll find it.

An M10 will get you into the realm of 2.4GHz 802.11n, but with all the noise you've got in the 2.4GHz band you should seriously consider a dual-band router and plan to move your hardware to 5GHz. If you've got laptops swapping out the miniPCI-E wifi card with an Intel 6300 will give you fantastic performance combined with the E4200. Just make sure if you have an HP or Lenovo machine that you search for a "compatible" card as those vendors lock the firmware to specific PCI IDs.

OHSrob

join:2011-06-08
reply to nauru
Click for full size
Use channel 1 or 2, Tomato clearly indicates the mid to second half of the band is a write off.

Attached is an example of my house's wifi, I am in a high noise environment. The noise in my room is over -74dbm on every channel.

If your noise on the channel your using is over -82dbm regardless of your signal your wifi will not work correctly on a broadcom router. If this is the case you will have to look into RAlink or Atheros based wifi solutions they handle it much better.

-96dbm indicates no noise on most platforms.

Also unless your using ml-ppp try out dd-wrt, It will give you a much better experience as the driver is regularly updated to the latest broadcom proprietary driver. It also gives you more information then tomato for helping determine problems.

Also don't forget if you flash dd-wrt remember to factory default it first once after the flash. Also under wireless>advanced change preamble to short and disable WMM. This will give you better throughput on the wifi and save cpu cycles.

Also your environment isn't that noisy at all for 2ghz its better than my house I am in a residential environment since the leaves started to come off the tree's the noise is right up.

How is your router placed right now ?

Mine is in my basement (lowest noise), And strategically placed on the wall so it has a open view to the stair case, The wifi can travel through the hall to every room on the main floor with at least a -50dbm signal and in my room at a -55dbm signal with the door opened and a -70dbm with the door closed. I can maintain 54 megabit's in G mode in every room when doors are opened and at least 36megabit's rates when doors are closed.

This allows me to have full bar coverage in every room of my house as there is no door on the stair's and the waves can propagate with minimal bouncing through my whole house. But I have no coverage out front of the house as there is no windows in my basement to allow the signal out front and too much freespace loss has occurred by the time it gets to the first or second story to make it out the front windows in any useful way.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
said by OHSrob:

Use channel 1 or 2, Tomato clearly indicates the mid to second half of the band is a write off.

That makes zero sense at all. The loudest APs his router can hear are on channels 1 and 4, which would kill the lower part of the band, not upper. The APs on 6 and 11, comparatively speaking, are quiet.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

It doesn't mean you should do something so dumb as dragging a 100 foot Ethernet cable with your laptop around your home.

Who said anything about dragging a long Ethernet cable? You can use runners to take cables to where laptops and desktops will be 99% of the time. On those odd occasions when the OP is using the laptop elsewhere, he can go wireless but I wouldn't plan on passing a lot of traffic.
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom
These covers can be had for like a buck a foot »www.cabletiesandmore.ca/floorcor···rkit.php Raceways like these can also work »www.cabletiesandmore.ca/raceways.php If you live in a house and can avoid exterior walls, I'm always more for fish tape and drywall saw
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
When you get married and have a wife calling the shots, you will realize that running cables through your living room and bedroom, even with those cable runners on the floor to protect you from tripping, is simply *not* an option!


OHSrob

join:2011-06-08
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

said by OHSrob:

Use channel 1 or 2, Tomato clearly indicates the mid to second half of the band is a write off.

That makes zero sense at all. The loudest APs his router can hear are on channels 1 and 4, which would kill the lower part of the band, not upper. The APs on 6 and 11, comparatively speaking, are quiet.

You didn't look at the noise floor measurements.

Also all a router does when nobody is using the internet is just send a SSID broadcast ever 150ms.

You could have 30 routers on the same channel around you with no users on it not doing anything or one router where the user is hammering the connection 24/7 with bit torrent.

You can bet the ap's where the most intensive thing happening on them is posting on facebook once or twice a day will not impact the connection.

If you have more free airtime you don't need as many re-transmit's.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
I'd like to see his own noise floor on each channel. I don't think things would be all too great with loud APs so low in the band. Even though the upper band may be noisy, his own AP may manage to drown it out on proximity alone, that's why I said 8.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

When you get married and have a wife calling the shots, you will realize that running cables through your living room and bedroom, even with those cable runners on the floor to protect you from tripping, is simply *not* an option!


I just waited till she was on a business trip and fished most of them through the walls.. She was kinda forced to even help me with finishing the job (even though I had to do all the drywall/paint work).. Better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
I still have wires hanging in my son's room. I survived her wrath once. I will not do it again.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom
said by Gone:

I still have wires hanging in my son's room. I survived her wrath once. I will not do it again.

That's the key.. My wife's wrath was pretty mild because I didn't leave any wires hanging.. With that being said, the bossman and I were up until 3am running a good chunk of that wiring to make sure I had enough time to at least make the bedroom - her sanctuary - look like it never happened. By the time she was back, the worst of it was over, so all she had to do was help me fish some of it through.

I have to admit, she's pretty big on wireless, but then again, over here, when doing a site survey, I can only see 2 wireless networks, one of which is my backup in case the DSL craps out. Of the 3 properties surrounding this one, one is abandoned (sale pending), one doesn't subscribe to this new interwebz fad and one doesn't do wireless. My lappy's connected direct to one of the switches 99% of the time. I just get it on wireless while I'm moving it between my office corner and the living room.
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
I see 6 APs on a 2.4GHz survey if I include one of the two 2.4GHz APs I run in the house, but have no interference issues at all. Bandwidth intensive stuff is all 5GHz greenfield N with 40MHz channels, which is pretty much a non-issue as far as interference goes and can pull close to 20MB/s across it without issue.

nauru

join:2011-02-02
I tried a bunch of different channels. So far my best result is with channel 9. 109k received, 8k errors. At least it's a big improvement over what it was before.

Another question I have, is how can I simply set every device that is not my PC or my ATA or my phone, to lowest priority on the network? I'm not sure whether I have a fixed IP or not, and I'm really not familiar with the jargon so please could you be as explicit as possible! Thanks.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
If that's the best you can do on 9, you need to move to 5GHz. No way around it.

It might also be worthwhile to consider that there may be a hardware issue with the router. Pick up a refurb E4200 from NCIX. That way you'll be dual band ready if things aren't any better on 2.4GHz with a new router.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Also could be a compatibility issue between the adapter and the router, in case the adapter has Atheros chipset for example. Too many variables and too prone to interference.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
I've had no issues with Atheros cards talking to Broadcom APs and vice-versa. Then again, I wasn't dealing with the same interference levels, either.


FiReSTaRT
Premium
join:2010-02-26
Canada
Reviews:
·Velcom
said by Gone:

I've had no issues with Atheros cards talking to Broadcom APs and vice-versa. Then again, I wasn't dealing with the same interference levels, either.

Under normal conditions it's perfectly fine, no issues. My issues came from rf interference caused by poor wiring that I eventually fixed up. BCM-BCM connections were a lot less likely to crap out than BCM-ATH connections.
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
—George Bernard Shaw