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dtgoodtonid

join:2005-01-16
Lexington, KY

Norton disabled me, I disabled Norton

I have been using NAV since 2005. I've seen it evolve from being bloated and slow to today's version, which is neither. I updated to the new version about 1 month before my subscription expired and I liked the new version as well.

My subscription expired about 3 days ago and Norton disabled the program. I was waiting till Sunday to renew because Staples is offering a $20 easy rebate off their $39.99 shelf price. I can understand Norton not allowing new updates after my subscription expired but I bought the program, and if I want to use it without the latest updates then that is my prerogative.

I uninstalled NAV and installed Microsoft Security Essentials. I also refuse to use Zone Alarm any more because of their unethical tactics, at least unethical in my opinion. If a vendor has a legitimate product they shouldn't have to resort to shady tactics


Secyurityet

join:2012-01-07
untied state

Now go buy Malwarebytes and you'll have a perfectly adequate security system, assuming you regularly update (or allow Microsoft to update) your system...


BigPoppa44

join:2005-08-08
Washington, NC
reply to dtgoodtonid

I understand how you feel, I too normally get Norton Internet Security from staples only when it's free with rebate which they run every year around the holidays. My subscription runs out around March and I normally renew with only 1 day remaining.



Msradell
P.E.
Premium
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY

said by BigPoppa44:

I understand how you feel, I too normally get Norton Internet Security from staples only when it's free with rebate which they run every year around the holidays. My subscription runs out around March and I normally renew with only 1 day remaining.

Take a close look at the changes they made to the 2013 version of NIS before you upgrade. The toolbar for it got huge and the vault is now only able to be installed on the cloud, not on your PC! Lots of people are going to jump ship.


ZipZap

@belgacom.be
reply to dtgoodtonid

said by dtgoodtonid:

I uninstalled NAV and installed Microsoft Security Essentials. I also refuse to use Zone Alarm any more because of their unethical tactics, at least unethical in my opinion. If a vendor has a legitimate product they shouldn't have to resort to shady tactics

Shady tactics? I can't see anything wrong in my running ZA. Mind to explain better? Isn't working as it should? It looks to work fine here.


Name Game
Premium
join:2002-07-07
Grand Rapids, MI
kudos:7
reply to dtgoodtonid

Click for full size
Yup..that happens

If you are done with it..make sure all of it is gone completely....
has a habit of leaving crumbs on the table.
--
Gladiator Security Forum
»www.gladiator-antivirus.com/

dtgoodtonid

join:2005-01-16
Lexington, KY
reply to ZipZap

First, I apologize for taking so long to reply. I call something shady if it's not clearly spelled out. I used ZA Pro for a few years. I wish I could remember more of the specifics but ZA started removing features when they issued updates. One I do remember was the anti spyware feature. I was put off about that but reasoned that I was paying for their firewall protection. Still, they cheapened my product, again.

The thing that really made me decide not to renew was when, I wish I could remember what it was called, they installed some sort of site monitor. It absolutely killed the pc I had at the time. The real problem was not that it was added, without my permission, but that I could not uninstall or disable it.

I've used a lot of products, as probably everyone on this board has. I currently use the free versions of SpywareBlaster, SUPERAntispyware, and Malwarebytes Anti-Malware. They are fantastic. Some even with different ownership. I also need to give kudos to Scotty the Windows Watchdog, a great program run with integrity. I no longer use Spybot, but it's a great program run with integrity. I love the way posters talk about Proxomitron- I have the link but have only been hesitant because I'm not sure I have the time and patience to work with it. I had Process Guard on an old machine, what a fantastic program that delivered it's service with no hidden surprises, which are usually not in the end users best interest. I really liked Giant's anti spyware, even after it became Microsoft anti spyware, then Windows Defender.

This could go on, but that's what I was basically saying, Maybe "shady" wasn't the correct term to use regarding ZA, no question they have a high quality firewall, but I did not and do not appreciate what they did. They have proven that the bundle you buy today might not be the same bundle after a future update. No thanks.


SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Houston, TX
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to Name Game

said by Name Game:

If you are done with it..make sure all of it is gone completely....
has a habit of leaving crumbs on the table...

Yes, and the manual UN-Installer creates and then leaves firewall exceptions behind, after it is finished removing the product, and has itself also left the building.
Expand your moderator at work


ZipZap

@europa.eu
reply to dtgoodtonid

Re: Norton disabled me, I disabled Norton

said by dtgoodtonid:

First, I apologize for taking so long to reply. I call something shady if it's not clearly spelled out. I used ZA Pro for a few years. I wish I could remember more of the specifics but ZA started removing features when they issued updates. One I do remember was the anti spyware feature. I was put off about that but reasoned that I was paying for their firewall protection. Still, they cheapened my product, again.

The thing that really made me decide not to renew was when, I wish I could remember what it was called, they installed some sort of site monitor. It absolutely killed the pc I had at the time. The real problem was not that it was added, without my permission, but that I could not uninstall or disable it.

This could go on, but that's what I was basically saying, Maybe "shady" wasn't the correct term to use regarding ZA, no question they have a high quality firewall, but I did not and do not appreciate what they did. They have proven that the bundle you buy today might not be the same bundle after a future update. No thanks.

Not problem! I could not really understand your original post about ZA. Indeed, probably 3 or 4 years ago they removed the spyware scanner in the firewall (this was due complaints by users about too much bloat in the software). ZA has been fully re-designed since then....

The other issue I really don't know, probably mixing up with another product? Or your refer to the toolbar? Probably not, since it can be easily removed with a specific entry in the windows uninstall list.

To sum up: 2/3/4 years in security software is an like an eternity as products are completely re-disegned, normally improving them .

But anyway thanks a lot for the explanation. Now its much clearer!


Sportsman

join:2012-03-26
Reviews:
·CenturyLink

1 edit
reply to SipSizzurp

Thank you for that information. I had recently run the Norton uninstaller but had no idea that it would change firewall settings. I checked my firewall, and sure enough, it had left new rules allowing unwanted inbound traffic. I was able to restore the settings to a previous version.



siljaline
I'm lovin' that double wide
Premium
join:2002-10-12
Montreal, QC
kudos:17

1 recommendation

reply to dtgoodtonid

Full Snorton removal tool listed Here



DownTheShore
Russia Lies, Ukraine Dies
Premium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:13
Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL

1 recommendation

reply to dtgoodtonid

IIRC, the Norton Program still protects the computer once the subscription expires with the settings as they last were, it just doesn't let you update or let you do more than that. As the last update before expiration becomes more and more out of date, you wind up with less and less protection.

My subscription for NAV on my desktop has expired, and Norton is throwing up all its red-flagged warnings.



cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
reply to dtgoodtonid

Recommended practice:

-remove manufacturer supplied AV (e.g. McAfee, Nortons, ...) using vendor's software tool (requires some thorough site digging for proper tool...some require verification like Captcha).

-Install free MSE from microsoft

-Purchase SuperAntiSpyware and or Malwarebytes Antimalware Pro versions... the free versions do not actively check web surfing, etc... and they are not that expensive...time is money.

(Off topic but related)
Someone (Nina!) didn't take my advice on her Dell and texted last week that she had some attack from an unfamiliar site she visited (99% of injection attacks ...). Well, she was running Nortons Internet Security Suite along with MSE (don't know why...). NIS never caught the injection. Could be that she wasn't up to date on Java, Flash, Shockwave and any other exploit...but the fact is, Norton's didn't see it nor stop it.
Running MBAM found the culprit. Problem is now, she'll need a rootkit killer to start... bad bad bad...
--
Splat



zteardrop

join:2005-12-20
Brooklyn, NY
reply to dtgoodtonid

Free MS Essentials is a POS. All the tests prove it.



zteardrop

join:2005-12-20
Brooklyn, NY

2 recommendations

reply to dtgoodtonid

You didn't buy the program, you are leasing it. All other big companies in the security space have moved to this model. Get over it.


dtgoodtonid

join:2005-01-16
Lexington, KY

I did.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4
reply to zteardrop

Care to list the AV companies that have moved to this model besides Norton?

I certainly don't want to buy any AV that has moved to this model so please list all that have. I had no idea ANY had done this! I'm still using Avira version 8 so I don't know what any paid vendors are doing. I've had Avira free since Jan 2007. I will not purchase any AV that would do what Norton did to the OP. That is not right and it is news to me that this is what ALL AV vendors are now doing....including free AV?

And why should anyone "get over" such lousy treatment of the customer? One should CERTAINLY be able to continue using the AV after subscriptions stop! Why would you say "get over it" as though that is acceptable to screw the user like that? This stupidity will just send all users to free AV or to a classic HIPS as then no AV is needed.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



gugarci
Premium
join:2004-02-25
Lyndhurst, NJ
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to dtgoodtonid

Me personally I would not use MSE. It's 0 day protection is horrible.
»www.blog.mrg-effitas.com/
If you don't want to spend money on an AV use the free version of Avast. If you need added protection buy the full version of Malwarebytes.
IMO right now SuperAntispyware is no where as good as MBAM and Hitman Pro.
--
Desktop Win 7 x64 Emsisoft Anti Malware v6.6, Laptop Win 7 x64 & Desktop XP Pro Emsisoft Anti Malware v6.6 & Online Armor Premium v5.5, Netbook Win 7 Starter and Netbook XP Home Avast 7, MBAM and Hitman Pro used on-demand only.


dtgoodtonid

join:2005-01-16
Lexington, KY

Why would you say I don't want to spend money on an AV when the 1st thing I said was that I've been using NAV since 2005? I fired Norton.

I'm not sure which direction I'm going at this point. MSE is, for the time being, the alternative to nothing. Whatever my decision is, it will be informed because of this forum. Even if the decision is to stay with MSE!



MagnusM
Premium
join:2001-07-07
reply to dtgoodtonid

I never understood the logic behind completely disabling a program if the subscription fee hasn't been paid. You've paid for the program, surely you should be able to continue using it. All this does is give Symantec a bad rep.
--
Mischel Internet Security - Developer of TrojanHunter



gugarci
Premium
join:2004-02-25
Lyndhurst, NJ
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to dtgoodtonid

said by dtgoodtonid:

Why would you say I don't want to spend money on an AV when the 1st thing I said was that I've been using NAV since 2005? I fired Norton.

I'm not sure which direction I'm going at this point. MSE is, for the time being, the alternative to nothing. Whatever my decision is, it will be informed because of this forum. Even if the decision is to stay with MSE!

Because out all the free and paid AV out there, you chose to replace Norton with MSE. Who replaces Norton with MSE? That's like trading in a Nissan GTR for a Ford Focus. Anyway you could of chosen Kasperky, BitDefender, F-secure, G-Data but you went MSE. So that's why I assumed you were looking for free solution.

Also there's nothing wrong with the free version of Avast. I used it on a couple of PC's. thr free version just has less features. The over-all protection is about the same. But it's 0 day protection is vastly superior to MSE.
--
Desktop Win 7 x64 Emsisoft Anti Malware v6.6, Laptop Win 7 x64 & Desktop XP Pro Emsisoft Anti Malware v6.6 & Online Armor Premium v5.5, Netbook Win 7 Starter and Netbook XP Home Avast 7, MBAM and Hitman Pro used on-demand only.
Expand your moderator at work

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4
reply to gugarci

Re: Norton disabled me, I disabled Norton

You have any DECENT proof that MSE has "horrible" 0 day protection? No one who knows anything antivirus testing would believe a single word from MRG much less actually have the gall to give them as link!

We've had these discussions here before many times over a long period about MRG. Doesn't anyone read threads here?
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


In case you think I am fan of MSE....no, I have never used it because there is no way to make it a palatable AV for power users like there is with Avira (Norton is only for ignorant of computers users also for the same reason). While I will not use MSE unless Microsoft decides that some of us are not ignorant of computers users, I think it is reasonably good AV for the masses.



gugarci
Premium
join:2004-02-25
Lyndhurst, NJ
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to dtgoodtonid

Believe who want Mele20 See Profile and I have the balls to give them as a link.
Maybe this site is involved in a conspiracy since almost every thing you post about involves some kind of conspiracy.

Here are 2 more recent tests. Take a Look at the horrible protection scores. If an an AV can't protect you from getting infested it's worthless even if it's free. And if you feel it's a good AV install it yourself.
Have a nice day.

»www.av-test.org/no_cache/en/test···]=122614
»www.av-test.org/no_cache/en/test···]=121851
--
Desktop Win 7 x64 Emsisoft Anti Malware v6.6, Laptop Win 7 x64 & Desktop XP Pro Emsisoft Anti Malware v6.6 & Online Armor Premium v5.5, Netbook Win 7 Starter and Netbook XP Home Avast 7, MBAM and Hitman Pro used on-demand only.

SipSizzurp
Fo' Shizzle
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Houston, TX
kudos:4

said by gugarci:

Here are 2 more recent tests. Take a Look at the horrible protection scores. If an an AV can't protect you from getting infested it's worthless even if it's free.

Tell that to Kaspersky, Computer Associates and Farenics Anti-Executable. Those are some of the software packets I'm in the process of removing, and installing MSE in their place, due to an un-ashamed raping of the entier LAN, with all that crap running and claiming all "Green" status ( Execpt Faronics).

If you hang out here enough you will see that your latest "Fanboi" flavor of the week is actually longer than one week. It runs from 2 - 3 years, and then must be given an overhaul for a year, meaning that you have already; MOVED ON !


gugarci
Premium
join:2004-02-25
Lyndhurst, NJ
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to dtgoodtonid

I visit this forum and Wilders multiples times every day. OK.
And no one solution is perfect, except maybe DefenseWall. This is why a layered approach is the best defense. But as of today I would start off with another AV instead of MSE.
OK,


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4

I looked at your AV-Test links. I see that on those tests that MSE did poorly in zero day detection. But it did the best of all of those tested in full removal of an infection. Plus, it has zero false positives and very importantly it doesn't slow the computer as most do (Avast was awful for slowing the computer...of course, if you install the bare minimum of modules then it would be better but the ignorant of computers user should use all modules). I still think MSE should be recommended to average users for ease of use, no FP's, excellent cleaning, very light on resources.

Users should have layered protection so that would make zero day deficiencies less important. Besides, it's free.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson



gugarci
Premium
join:2004-02-25
Lyndhurst, NJ
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to dtgoodtonid

But shouldn't preventing the infection be more important than cleaning it, especially after you let in in? I would rather have an AV with better protection than cleaning. For the cleaning part if your AV cannot remove it, there's are lot's of tools you can use. Such as MalwareBytes, Hitman Pro, Emsisoft, and so on.

I'll take better protection over cleaning any day of the week. But your AV solution should still perform well in all the three categories, protection, repair, and usability. In this case MSE score very low in protection.

Also I have Avast installed in my kids Netbooks and it doesn't slow down the performance. And these Netbooks are using an Atom chip.

--
Desktop Win 7 x64 Emsisoft Anti Malware v7, Laptop Win 7 x64 & Desktop XP Pro Emsisoft Anti Malware v7 & Online Armor Premium v6, Netbook Win 7 Starter and Netbook XP Home Avast 7, MBAM and Hitman Pro used on-demand only.


Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:4

Well, if Avast isn't slowing down your kids Netbooks (assuming all modules are in use) then maybe that test was wrong about Avast usability. If so, maybe it is wrong about MSE's 0 day protection. I don't know...just saying....

If users stay away from IE I don't think 0 day protection is that critical assuming they are not visiting crack and porn sites constantly or clicking on every link they see. IE is a huge factor in getting infections. It really depends on the user. If ignorant of computers, and irresponsible regarding the safe use of computers, then the user may need heavy duty AV especially if they insist on using IE.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson