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urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
reply to Guspaz

Re: Organic Food.. same as non organic?

I'd never read this book, or heard of it... how did she cost millions of people their lives?


yoyomhz

join:2003-02-15
Beverly Hills, CA
the book by rachel Carson was no big deal.

In 1996 another ground-breaking book was published. Our Stolen Future by Theo Colborn and Peter Myers details the wealth of scientific research highlighting the ability of many supposedly safe manmade chemicals (including still widely used pesticides) to mimic hormones and – in parts per billion – interfere with immune system, cognitive and reproductive development.

Put simply, there is every reason to believe that chemicals in our environment are making us sick, stupid and sterile.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
Yea, I heard a program on NPR recently discussing various studies by the United States government to determine how various chemicals, such as cancer causing chemicals, are entering the bodies of regular people that do not interact with obvious cancer causing materials.

Yesterday I'd heard another study the US government is engaged in that's following 1200 girls to determine patterns such as ethnicity, income levels, geography, diet, etc., and if there may be a pattern influencing higher levels of something that causes breast cancer, and they're not exactly sure where it comes from.

This topic's study referred to 'nutrition' in organic food yet people erroneously used the term 'healthier'. Even the title of this thread asks if the foods are 'the same'...

No one in this thread has indicated that they're more of an authority on the subject than those with high level degrees that have said that these additional chemicals are 'bad for you', 'good for you', 'probably okay', or 'we don't know the effects', so I'm pretty much defaulting to my original opinion that it's logical to assume that less of something bad is good for me.


yoyomhz

join:2003-02-15
Beverly Hills, CA
there is an extremely easy way to know if one tomato is more nutritious than another tomato.

If both tomatos look perfect on the outside, but one of those tomatos will sit on your table for seven days without any rotting, without going bad at all, and if another tomato will immedaitely start to deteriorate, the first one has good internal quality, and it's more nutritious. That's how you know. Too much chemical fertilizer = less nutritious. Poor internal quality and sprayed with fungicide to make it look good on the outside = less nutritious.

Another way (for fruit) is by taste. Fruit picked green is less nutritious. Fruit picked over ripe is less nutritious. Fruit loses nutrition eveyr day it sits around, so fruit that was picked yesterday is more nutritious. and, fruit that tastes better is more nutritious. I've tasted organic oranges, picked at the perfect time, that were so good, I ate five of them without stopping. I've also bought giant sized commercially grown oranges that looked good on the outside and had no taste whatsoever. Those are not nutritious.

So if you have found the food you've bought at farmers markets, organic, to be good tasting - great, it's nutritious. Every time you buy something that tastes like crap, like cheap hybrid seedless watermelons, you know it's not very nutritious.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
Hah, I heard a program recently that discussed a new book on tomatoes and it was said that the most popular tomatoes, the tomatoes we find in grocery stores, are mostly based on one strain that received a genetic mutation allowing them to redden by the time they hit stores... and they're one of the worst tasting tomatoes out there; however the best tasting tomatoes don't look as great or last as long on shelves, so regular people think of tomatoes as the 'bad tomatoes'.

CBC article with more depth here - »www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story···ste.html

I think NPR reviewed the aforementioned book I'm referring to, called Tomatoland, "How Industrial Farming 'Destroyed' The Tasty Tomato" - »www.npr.org/2011/06/28/137371975···y-tomato

I'm starting to sound like yoyo :/


Thane_Bitter
Inquire within
Premium
join:2005-01-20
They do taste awful.

I have notices lately the much of the out-of-season (imported fruit) never ripens correctly, it rots from the inside out before its ripe, and yes they also taste bad as well.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:

I'd never read this book, or heard of it... how did she cost millions of people their lives?

It started a mass hysteria about DDT which lead to its effective banning, to the extent where governments attached "anti-DDT" provisions to foreign aid packages that forced less developed countries to stop spraying DDT. Since DDT had been responsible for dramatically reducing Malaria rates, stopping the spraying has lead to the rates increasing once again, now something like double they were before it started increasing again. The better part of a million people die from Malaria each year. The book has also been credited with being one of the catalysts of the modern environmental movement that inspired various terrorist groups like Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd.

Is the book directly responsible for these things? No, but it was one of the primary contributing factors.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
said by Guspaz:

The book has also been credited with being one of the catalysts of the modern environmental movement that inspired various terrorist groups like Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd.

Hmm I read that similarly as I'd read the Christian bible has been credited with the deaths of millions of men, women and children and Islam is responsible for terrorism. Or in other words, refer to the fringe elements to discredit something that could be good.

A wikipedia article on DDT states the book "questioned the logic of releasing large amounts of chemicals into the environment without fully understanding their effects on ecology or human health". That seems ridiculously sensible and intelligent.

I also read, "the US ban on DDT is cited by scientists as a major factor in the comeback of the bald eagle, the national bird of the United States, from near-extinction in the contiguous US."

As an objective reader who's never heard of this book, it's almost as if you are engaging in hysteria as your posts seem very exaggerated and one-sided.


Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3
said by urbanriot:

A wikipedia article on DDT states the book "questioned the logic of releasing large amounts of chemicals into the environment without fully understanding their effects on ecology or human health". That seems ridiculously sensible and intelligent.

It's also a gross over-simplification. Not uncommon to Wikipedia.

»reason.com/archives/2002/06/12/s···ng-at-40
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
said by Ian:

It's also a gross over-simplification.

Agreed, that was my point in relaying that his post seemed grossly exaggerated to one side.

It's good that this person's book motivated people to use their brains but it's bad that it may have increased the death toll of malaria in areas that have such issues. Fortunately technology is catching up with alternative ways of fighting malaria than blanket DDT spraying.


A Lurker
that's Ms Lurker btw
Premium
join:2007-10-27
Wellington N
reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:

Hah, I heard a program recently that discussed a new book on tomatoes and it was said that the most popular tomatoes, the tomatoes we find in grocery stores, are mostly based on one strain that received a genetic mutation allowing them to redden by the time they hit stores... and they're one of the worst tasting tomatoes out there; however the best tasting tomatoes don't look as great or last as long on shelves, so regular people think of tomatoes as the 'bad tomatoes'.

I'm going to miss my backyard tomatoes. I've started covering the cherry tomatoes on the patio. If it stays reasonably mild I've found I can get tomatoes into early November. Last year I think it was late November, but this year I don't think it will be as good. I just need to remember to fill the reservoir (they're in one of those pots that holds 5 or 7 L of water in the bottom).

booj

join:2011-02-07
Richmond, ON
said by A Lurker:

I'm going to miss my backyard tomatoes. I've started covering the cherry tomatoes on the patio. If it stays reasonably mild I've found I can get tomatoes into early November. Last year I think it was late November, but this year I don't think it will be as good. I just need to remember to fill the reservoir (they're in one of those pots that holds 5 or 7 L of water in the bottom).

Good show. Some of mIy tomato plants are still flowering, it's been a great year for them with the hot summer. Accidentally, I did grow of couple of 'supermarket' variety tomato plants, that sprung out of my compost heap. Even fresh off the vine they tasted like cardboard.