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alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1
reply to AVonGauss

Re: New Build structured wiring

said by TheMG:

A wireless connection is subject to interference and all sorts of other potential problems some of which are beyond your control. Especially in an urban setting with high population density (high-rise condos/apartments for instance), it can be difficult to get good performance out of wireless with so many other wireless devices in close proximity all sharing the 2.4GHz band.

Ok ya for a condo I agree, wireless isn't the best, then again in a condo, there isn't that many places to wire up, nor are they far from each others.

For a detached house, there isn't anything as wireless interference other than from yourself.

said by TheMG:

Wireless needs some wires too. To get the best out of wireless you need to place access points in strategic locations to get proper coverage

I wouldn't completely go wireless. But putting an ethernet port everywhere is overkill. The wired network goes to key locations, and wireless covers the random odd locations like a desktop in a bedroom.

said by TheMG:

I used to have my HTPC connected wirelessly but every now and then it would get a hiccup where the streaming video would stutter for a couple of seconds due to interference, even on 802.11N. I got sick of it and just ran ethernet to it.

Sometimes it's the wifi card that sucks, or the router.
They boast 802.11N but the hardware can't handle the bandwidth.
I had a crappy wifi adapter choke on streaming 720p!!!

said by TheMG:

As for gigabit, fast ethernet (100Mbps) will suffice for media streaming. Gigabit is useful if you're tossing large files around between computers and/or NAS devices.

If you go as far as building a centralized wired network (as in, they all go back to one point) then it would be silly to store large files all over the place. If you store everything centrally, then the ODD and RARE moments needing to transfer large files will just be longer, but not an issue.

said by AVonGauss:

Wireless can be a good compromise in an existing structure, but for a new construction I think you'd be a fool (most p/c way I can say that) not to pre-wire for Ethernet and Coaxial, preferably in conduit.

I am currently ripping out all the telephone jacks that were put in every bedroom. I gotta patch up the drywall as well.

Those who installed those jacks probably thought that one day, everyone will have a telephone in every room! Yet look at what is the fashion now. People barely even have a land line, and if they do, it's on a single wireless phone station that transmits to all other wireless stations, because those jacks weren't always where you'd want to place your phone.

said by AVonGauss:

Wireless is convenient, but it also has its quirks especially when you start using multiple devices with different usage characteristics. The only way to avoid that, as many home gateways have done, is to let users set up multiple wireless networks but that too can get interesting or irritating.

Beefy wifi router(s) will handle that nicely.
People tend to buy the cheapest routers and then complain that wifi technology has reliability issues.

Again, to all my above replies, I am not saying that we shouldn't place wired outlets for network in key locations, but there is overkill resulting in a lot of unused outlets that WILL go obsolete.

AVonGauss
Premium
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

said by alkizmo:

Beefy wifi router(s) will handle that nicely.
People tend to buy the cheapest routers and then complain that wifi technology has reliability issues.

It has nothing to do with how "Beefy" the unit is, it has to do with how different usage patterns affect the protocol. A media player streaming from a local source, a media player streaming from online (i.e. NetFlix), a laptop browsing and a VOIP phone all have different characteristics and needs. With a wired based network, you don't have the same level and type of overhead plus you have excess capacity so they all tend to play relatively nice together. On a wireless 802.11 network, that is not true and consequently the more you actually use it and with more diverse devices is when you encounter the problems. This is true whether you're using 802.11 b/g based equipment or 802.11ac based equipment, its not just a question of how many bits you can sling through the air at once.

I'm not saying wireless sucks, I use it everyday including at home. However to represent it as equivalent is not accurate, it's just more convenient.


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

1 edit

said by AVonGauss:

I'm not saying wireless sucks, I use it everyday including at home. However to represent it as equivalent is not accurate, it's just more convenient.

I'm not saying wireless is an equivalent

There are devices that should be wired (central PC, central storage, main HTPC). In fact all heavy demand devices should be wired (included latency sensitive devices like VoIP).

However to go put a networking outlet in every room is to expect something like a bedroom desktop or bedroom TV with a set-top box to be numerous and bandwidth hogs. OR to expect to decentralize most devices, like the VoIP box to be in a bedroom instead of near the modem OR the central file server to be in a different room from the HTPC or network hub.

Oh and for the original poster: 2 outlets is way too much. Nobody uses wired telephones


tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
kudos:9
Reviews:
·G4 Communications
·Fairpoint Commun..
·Hollis Hosting

1 recommendation

said by alkizmo:

2 outlets is way too much. Nobody uses wired telephones

Just to nitpick a little I think 2 is the ideal number of UTP jacks at each location.
1) If for any reason a cable fails you have a back up.
2) Does not cost much more then running a single line.
3) Some of us still use POTS.
4) If you use wired VoIP phone nice having a second jack for a PC or other computer. Eliminates need to have a switch and allows PoE.

/tom

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel
reply to alkizmo

To each his own I suppose. Personally if I was building a new house, I'd run a couple drops to each room. True, most of the ports might never be used, but they'll be there if/when you ever need them, and it is much cheaper and easier to run cable before the drywall goes in, so why not? Especially if you run and terminate the cables yourself, the cost is relatively nothing looking at the big picture. Another alternative would be to run conduit to each room, so cables can be pulled in the future if needed, without ripping any drywall out.

Ultimately it is the homeowner's decision. Some people are perfectly happy with WiFi everything.



alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to tschmidt

said by tschmidt:

1) If for any reason a cable fails you have a back up.

Then why not 3, or 4 or 5, you know where this is going

said by tschmidt:

2) Does not cost much more then running a single line.

It costs double. Maybe if the two jacks are side by side then labor is a little bit cheaper, but material is double.

said by tschmidt:

3) Some of us still use POTS.

Ever heard of wireless phone stations? You just need 1 outlet that feeds as many wireless stations as you want, placed ANYWHERE! It's magic.

said by tschmidt:

4) If you use wired VoIP phone nice having a second jack for a PC or other computer. Eliminates need to have a switch and allows PoE.

You only need ONE VoIP device that plugs to the wireless phone station I mention above.

COUNTER NICK PICK!

said by TheMG:

it is much cheaper and easier to run cable before the drywall goes in, so why not?

It's not the cost for THAT addition that is too much, but the mentality of it towards a house construction will apply to MANY other parts of the home. The "why not" applies to electrical, plumbing, insulation, etc etc.

Though I admit that getting network to every room isn't as an expensive superfluous addition compared to extreme insulation or electrical wiring (Like 1 circuit per outlet, oh wow!)

said by TheMG:

Ultimately it is the homeowner's decision. Some people are perfectly happy with WiFi everything.

It's all about balance.

Wired for key spots (living room, den, whatever other room that isn't just a bedroom/toilet/kitchen).

Wireless to cover the randomly located networked device.

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel

said by alkizmo:

said by tschmidt:

4) If you use wired VoIP phone nice having a second jack for a PC or other computer. Eliminates need to have a switch and allows PoE.

You only need ONE VoIP device that plugs to the wireless phone station I mention above.

Having multiple VoIP phones/devices can be handy since you can have multiple concurrent phone calls. This can be useful in a large family when multiple people are wanting to use the phone.

Now you're probably going to mention cell phones to counter my point...


alkizmo

join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC
kudos:1

said by TheMG:

Now you're probably going to mention cell phones to counter my point...

Yes....
AND
VoIP devices can have multiple lines

Cmon, if you're going to defend your point with modern societies with families using MULTIPLE lines at the same time, then cellphones are in the mix buddy!


nunya
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:12

My kids won't even touch a cordless phone, let alone a phone on the wall - they won't text.
--
If someone refers to herself / himself as a "guru", they probably aren't.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to alkizmo

said by alkizmo:

Wired for key spots (living room, den, whatever other room that isn't just a bedroom/toilet/kitchen).

Wireless to cover the randomly located networked device.

Don't forget that some people might want a "Big flat Screen" Home theater, telephone and wired computer in bathroom, basement and garage.