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Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
reply to BronsCon

Re: [iPhone] Bigger Fail Than Maps ...

Our headend supports AAC/MP3/MP4/WMA. All I know is that I can't tell the difference between AAC and MP3 (haven't play WMA files) audio in our car. No one else can either. My guess is that the BT is carrying the data and the HE is decoding, just as you say.
--
“The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." - Barack Obama, UN Speech 9/25/2012. Ever hear of the First Amendment, BO? Vote Romney/Ryan and take America back.



BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

1 recommendation

said by Badonkadonk:

Our headend supports AAC/MP3/MP4/WMA. All I know is that I can't tell the difference between AAC and MP3 (haven't play WMA files) audio in our car. No one else can either. My guess is that the BT is carrying the data and the HE is decoding, just as you say.

Being an early-adopter (I've been ripping my own CDs since before MP3 was even a thing) I've become quite familiar with transcoding artifacts, even when re-encoding to the same format and bitrate with an encoder that's tweaked slightly differently, and I've become quite good at recognizing them. It's funny that people on these boards assume that anyone who disagrees with them is simply uneducated or inexperienced, but given my own experience, I'm going to assume you are similarly experienced when you make these statements.

Just another case of projection -- "It's what I'd do, so it must be what everyone does."

But, then, you've been around here long enough to know how dangerous it is to make contradictory statements on these boards.

Back on topic, I think the argument being posed was "just because it's possible doesn't mean it's happening; and because I've never seen it and you can't prove it, it's not happening", which we both know is a BS argument. Thanks for the backup and good luck standing against the onslaught of argument you'll see for it.

Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

I have to admit I like the technical discussion going on. But at the end of the day, if the music sounds good for us, that's all we care about. And typically whether we're in the car or at home, we rip at a high enough bitrate that the sound quality is pretty good throughout. I went and did a huge purge of everything that was lower than 256 kbps. Most everything we have now is at 320 kbps. Good enough for us. Again, we're not audiophiles.
--
“The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." - Barack Obama, UN Speech 9/25/2012. Ever hear of the First Amendment, BO? Vote Romney/Ryan and take America back.



BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

Now that's what I'm talkin' about!

If I wanted concert quality sound, I'd be recording from virgin vinyl at 24-bit 96khz, to be played back from an SSD installed in a vehicle-mounted PC connected directly to a pair of $5k 2Kw digital amps powering an array of speakers costing no less than $20k.

But, since I just want to enjoy my music without having to fiddle with cables or spend 3mo salary, Bluetooth works great.



Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC

whatever, if you're saying that your audio equipment, your sound files or your ears cannot discriminate between BT and wired audio then fine.



BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

1 recommendation

Yes, that's right, I can tell when a file has been transcoded, usually including the from and to which codec, often down to which encoder was used, but my ears are the reason I can't tell the difference between bluetooth and analog. It has nothing to do with the *fact* that the audio is being sent without transcoding; nope, that can't have anything to do with it.



Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC

Except it isn't being sent that way. You're making false assumptions. »soundexpert.org/news/-/blogs/blu···ity-a2dp

Notice that even though many devices support MP3 and other codecs, in practical use nothing uses it. Your device maybe transcoding to a 320 kb stream, but it's still re-encoding the file.



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

That's assuming SBC is the only available codec. Why do you claim nothing uses MP3 w/ A2DP?

BronsCon is correct that if the sender and receiver both support MP3 in their bluetooth stack, then it's possible no transcoding takes place (I have no idea if this is how Android does it.. I couldn't find very clear guidelines like that Apple tech document. Android does support SBC/MP3/AAC for A2DP though). You could check by comparing CPU usage while playing an MP3 locally and then playing the same MP3 via BT (more usage may indicate the MP3 is being re-encoded).

If you're using an iOS device, your chances of getting good quality audio over BT is likely much lower as only AAC at a specific bitrate is supported. So your only options are re-encoded AAC or SBC, depending on the receiver. I bought a $10 bluetooth receiver off eBay awhile ago for use with my iPhone. Unsurprisingly, it sounded like shit (most likely only supported SBC).
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!



Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC

In the article I referenced he pointed out that although the Bluetooth headphones he was discussing supported MP3 over Bluetooth, in practical terms the devices used SBC regardless.



Thinkdiff
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-07
Bronx, NY
kudos:11

That was 2008. I'd be surprised if that's still the case, but maybe.

Edit:
According to this, the issue with those headphone, specifically, is that the included transmitter only supports SBC. It seems if you use them with a MP3-capable transmitter, it'll work properly. So the author's premise may be incorrect due to the crappy transmitter Sony included:
»www.avforums.com/forums/headphon···ity.html
--
University of Southern California - Fight On!



Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC

I doubt much has changed in A2DP - but like you I just haven't found a lot of published technical info to really prove or disprove that. The most recent development I'm aware of is the adoption of apt-X codecs in some higher-end bluetooth devices - though it isn't widespread at this time.

I'm not sure which transmitter he was discussing though it seemed to me that he was generalizing to say that "for simplicity or compatibility everyone just uses SBC".



BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET

As I've said in two other posts already in this thread, I can tell the differenece between SBC and MP3, it's a pretty big one. I have a cheapie bluetooth headset (actually a receiver that I can plug headphones into) that I regret buying that only supports SBC and the difference between plugging my good headphones into that vs plugging them directly into my phone is night and day. The difference between plugging my phone into my stereo or using bluetooth is negligible, with bluetooth offering slightly better quality (comparable to plugging un a USB stick and playing the files directly), if anything. That would be because both devices support MP3 as a transport protocol and I happen to be playing MP3s.

That's all the documentation I need.



TheHarvester
Premium
join:2006-08-25
Dana Point, CA
kudos:3
reply to Count Zero

said by Count Zero:

How would you need to buy 4? 1 comes with the phone, 1 for the car and 1 more for work/travel? For over a year you haven't had to plug the phone into the computer to sync so you don't need one for your desk really...

I forgot about one coming with the phone so I would still need to buy at least 3. I manually sync and back up everything and the wireless sync crap would be shut off right away. I don't need nor do I want everything from my phone on all my computers and I sure as hell don't want or need to share all my pictures with everyone. I have so many microUSB cables that I have them everywhere. I have one on my nightstand, one at my main home computer, one at my hobby/telescope/armory computer, one In my truck, one in my telescope laptop bag, two 2 at my work computer and one or two in my cable/charge drawer.
--
mbsastronomy.com


Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC
reply to BronsCon

More than likely you're only hearing the difference between high and medium-low bitrate SBC.



Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC
reply to TheHarvester

Ok so you'd buy 3 ($60) and use them the next 5-10 years. The 30-pin cable wound up working out the same way (buy a few extra ones early and all future iDevices come with one so you wind up with extras in the long run). If that $60 is breaking your bank then you've got other problems.



Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC
reply to BronsCon

And if USB and Bluetooth were sending the exact same MP3 I'm very very perplexed as to how BT could sound slightly better...


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network

1 recommendation

reply to Count Zero

Notwithstanding your Apple apologist stance, going with a worldwide standard makes things a lot easier if/when a person leaves a cable behind (or loses it somewhere) to get a cheap cable anywhere or knowing that there's likely one at whatever destination a person happens to be going. It's really simple common sense.
--
“The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." - Barack Obama, UN Speech 9/25/2012. Ever hear of the First Amendment, BO? Vote Romney/Ryan and take America back.



Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC

Very true that having a standard is helpful if you forget a cable. But having a proprietary standard isn't always bad if it allows for Apple to ensure the user experience is better by enforcing standards onto the third party community. Plus it keeps Android users from getting access to all the bells and whistles of made for iPhone accessories and that's fine by me



skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
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Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS

2 edits

Proprietary is only good if it offers more FUNCTIONALITY. Micro USB isn't proprietary and I have no problem getting quality cables.

Meanwhile Apple-proprietary means great vendors like Hypermac getting sued even when they bought official Magsafe devices to cut the ends off for use in their battery products. So now you have to buy the battery and a stupid airline connector or do the soldering yourself.

The rest of that statement is silly. All made for iPod and no one else means is higher cost for those devices. If they have universal connectivity for Android and iPod it means they sell more and thanks to a little thing called economy of scale we get those goodies cheaper. I don't give a piss what Android users buy but the stuff I buy would be better without an Apple tax.

Expand your moderator at work


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to Count Zero

Re: [iPhone] Bigger Fail Than Maps ...

"The difference between plugging my phone into my stereo or using bluetooth" = line-out vs bluetooth

"plugging in a USB stick [typo corrected]" = plugging in a USB stick, not my phone

Thus the difference, and thus why playing the file directly and playing it over bluetooth sound the same. If you had read my whole post rather than stopping when you thought you had found a flaw in my testing, you'd have probably gotten that without me pointing it out. Can we resume intelligent discussion now?


Badonkadonk
Premium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Dish Network
reply to skeechan

said by skeechan:

Proprietary is only good if it offers more FUNCTIONALITY. Micro USB isn't proprietary and I have no problem getting quality cables.

Meanwhile Apple-proprietary means great vendors like Hypermac getting sued even when they bought official Magsafe devices to cut the ends off for use in their battery products. So now you have to buy the battery and a stupid airline connector or do the soldering yourself.

The rest of that statement is silly. All made for iPod and no one else means is higher cost for those devices. If they have universal connectivity for Android and iPod it means they sell more and thanks to a little thing called economy of scale we get those goodies cheaper. I don't give a piss what Android users buy but the stuff I buy would be better without an Apple tax.

It's the "Instagram Phenomenon". I've never understood that attitude . . .
--
“The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." - Barack Obama, UN Speech 9/25/2012. Ever hear of the First Amendment, BO? Vote Romney/Ryan and take America back.
Expand your moderator at work


TheHarvester
Premium
join:2006-08-25
Dana Point, CA
kudos:3
reply to Count Zero

Re: [iPhone] Bigger Fail Than Maps ...

said by Count Zero:

Ok so you'd buy 3 ($60) and use them the next 5-10 years. The 30-pin cable wound up working out the same way (buy a few extra ones early and all future iDevices come with one so you wind up with extras in the long run). If that $60 is breaking your bank then you've got other problems.


No, $60.00 wouldn't break the bank and like I said, "if I were to buy an iphone 5". That won't happen so Apple can change the connector with every version for all I care.
--
mbsastronomy.com


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

1 recommendation

reply to Count Zero

said by Count Zero:

Again, show me a consumer device that actually plays FULL QUALITY audio over bluetooth.

»www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2···h-update

AptX devices.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC

Yes I mentioned those a while ago - but they're not commonplace and his head unit doesn't support it, I checked that already.



Count Zero
Obama-Biden 2012
Premium
join:2007-01-18
Winston Salem, NC
reply to TheHarvester

So then, your point in posting here was what exactly?

Expand your moderator at work


skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS
reply to KrK

Re: [iPhone] Bigger Fail Than Maps ...

I have a new Nano coming next week (17th so sayith Amazon) and I wonder what audio profiles it will support. The site just says BT but doesn't say what actual profiles are supported. I'll upgrade to the newer LG headset if the new nano support aptx but if it's still A2DP I won't bother.



TheHarvester
Premium
join:2006-08-25
Dana Point, CA
kudos:3
reply to Count Zero

said by Count Zero:

So then, your point in posting here was what exactly?

Thinkdiff See Profile posted a link and claiming that even the microusb isn't standard on the galaxy SIII and you would need an adapter to use that phone as well. I simply pointed out that it was NOT the microusb connector and that it was the HDMI connector. SIII owners would need to buy an adapter ONLY if they wanted to connect their phone to an HD television and not to use the existing accessories they already bought for their earlier phone.

I simply pointed out a mistake by an Apple user and all hell breaks loss. Then you guys call me a cheap bastard with personal, mental or financial issues.
{shakes head}
--
mbsastronomy.com