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authur
@comcast.net

authur

Anon

My four out of nine stations won't come on

I have a rain bird sprinkler system (ESP modular). It has 9 stations that 1st modular includes 4 stations while 2nd and 3 modular controls 3 station each. The problem I had was that station #1 through #4 won't come on during the test or auto-run. Station #5 through #9 work normally. I swapped the wire of station#1 (1st modular) to station #9 (3nd modular) and station#9 still works but station#1 still doesn't work. This confirmed the 1st modular function O.K. I also manually turned on the vales of station #1 , #2, #3, and #4 at manifold and each vale operate O.K (water came out through the sprinkler head). This confirmed that the solenoid of each vale functions normally. I also checked the resistance between blck and white wire of each solenoid and ohm meter readd between 40ohms to 50ohms. It means these solenoids are O.K. I'm now stuck as I don't know what to diagnostic next. Could you tell me what should I do next . Thank you in advance.

PSWired
join:2006-03-26
Annapolis, MD

PSWired

Member

How are the valves laid out? Are 1-4 in a separate valve box than 5-9, fed by a separate cable? Sounds like your cable is cut to me.

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

leibold to authur

MVM

to authur
When you said that you manually turned on the valves did you mean using the electronic on/off at the rainbird controller or the manual on/off at the valve ?

When you tested the solenoid resistance, did you do that near the sprinkler valves or at the controller end ?

Without knowing more about the layout of your system (location of controller and sprinkler valves and cable connections between them) it is difficult to guess but I would start looking at the common wire from valves 1-4 to the 1st ESP module.

djrobx
Premium Member
join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

djrobx to authur

Premium Member

to authur
Check the common wire for stations 1-4.
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt to authur

Member

to authur
Is the module for stations 1 to 4 the correct module for a nine station timer. You state that it is a nine station timer but the sum of outputs is ten. I had an earlier rain bird timer that had three station outputs built in and room for two additional three zone modules. Check to see if the first module is the right one for the timer. If the first module station 1 to 4 is removable switch it with one of the other modules to see if a different module works properly when in the first slot.

authur
@comcast.net

authur

Anon

That is correct. My timer had 3 modules and organized as first module controls 4 stations while other two each controls 3 stations. I left station#10 with no connection. As I mentioned, I did swap station #1 (Module 1) with station#9 (Module 3) but did not swap whole Module. I thought that swapping stations out of modules should prove that no issue with module 1, right ?

hortnut
Huh?
join:2005-09-25
PDX Metro

hortnut to authur

Member

to authur
Last time I did troubleshooting on my folks system on 2 acres - used a automotive test light on the problematic stations for some of the tests.

At the controller, turned it on to send power to the non working station. First checked the 'lugs' at the controller to make sure it was working and sending power. Then went to the valve/solenoid and checked for power.

Had a mixture of bad valves, solenoids and wires [eaten through by varmints, most likely]. It was an old system, originally installed in the '50s with many changes since.

I seem to recall that there is an internal replaceable fuse on some Rainbird Controllers that can go bad and take out 1/2 or the whole thing. Happened to me a couple of times over the years.

Re-reading, do not think your test would verify that the solenoid is good, just by turning it on manually. Need to test it by power. I have even tested solenoids using a 12v deep cycle battery for a power source. Also the solenoid is in part a mechanical device activated by electricity.

hth


authur
@comcast.net

authur

Anon

Do you know where is the fuses and how it looks like ? I did try to test the solenoid electrically (by switch to test on control timer) and it seemed to count down the timer but the sprinkler heads didn't come on and no water. I don't know if I make myself clear.
authur

authur to PSWired

Anon

to PSWired
Thanks for your quick response. I believe each valve fed by separate cable (because each valve has its own box) then each cable run to the timer control box. Similarly, valve 5-9 also had their own boxes.

When I said, I manually turn on the valves, I meant physically turn on/off the valves.

When I tested the solenoid resistance, I did you that near the sprinkler valves?

The common wire is just one wire so I guess it is common for all stations, so if it doesn't work then it should have caused issues for other stations as well, right ? but in this case, only first 4 stations didn't work.

hortnut
Huh?
join:2005-09-25
PDX Metro

hortnut to authur

Member

to authur
More information on the Rainbird Controller - Model Number and such, so the on needed.

Link for the Consumer Models, manuals-
»www.rainbird.com/homeown ··· mers.htm

Commercial:
»www.rainbird.com/landsca ··· lers.htm

authur
@comcast.net

authur to PSWired

Anon

to PSWired
Thanks for your quick response. I believe each valve fed by separate cable (because each valve has its own box) then each cable run to the timer control box. Similarly, valve 5-9 also had their own boxes.

When I said, I manually turn on the valves, I meant physically turn on/off the valves.

When I tested the solenoid resistance, I did you that near the sprinkler valves?

The common wire is just one wire so I guess it is common for all stations, so if it doesn't work then it should have caused issues for other stations as well, right ? but in this case, only first 4 stations didn't work.
authur

authur to hortnut

Anon

to hortnut
I just checked the power at controller and when I test (turn on) the valve of station#1, the power send seen for station#1, 2,3,4 as ~28-29v for each station and 0V for other stations (5 through 9). Same thing seen as I test for valve#2 through valve#4.

However, when I test the valve#5 (working station) , only 28.5V power seen for station#5 and all other stations (including #1 through #4) seen as 0V. Looked like something short (gang) between valve#1 through #4 but I check all wires at the valves, can't find anything.

Do you have any idea ?

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

leibold

MVM

said by authur :

I just checked the power at controller and when I test (turn on) the valve of station#1, the power send seen for station#1, 2,3,4 as ~28-29v for each station and 0V for other stations (5 through 9). Same thing seen as I test for valve#2 through valve#4.

This confirms that you have a problem with the common wire going to valves #1 through valve #4. The common wire between those 4 valves still connects them to each other (which is why you can measure the voltage at all of them) but it is not connected back to the rainbird controller (nor is it connected to the common wire of valves #5 through #9).

authur
@swbell.net

authur

Anon

Look like so but how to isolate the problem then ? BTW, I didn't change anything at common wire at the valves.

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

leibold

MVM

Unless you did some yard work around the time the sprinklers stopped working, the most likely suspects are rodents chewing on the cable somewhere. Second most likely is a loose splice.

For further troubleshooting help I suggest that you take some pictures of the wiring at the rainbird controller and at the wiring at all 9 valves and post them in this thread. If there are splices of the cables anywhere else besides the controller and the valves take pictures of those too.

Without pictures your alternatives are:

- follow the existing cable from the rainbird controller to the valves checking for mechanical damage along the entire length of the cable until you find the problem (and then fix it).

- install a new sprinkler cable (discard the old one that is no longer working).

authur
@comcast.net

authur

Anon

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leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

leibold

MVM

The two pictures of the wiring at the rainbird controller are good. Even so we can't see it because of the conduit, it appears that the valves are wired with a single 10 conductor cable.

That cable must first go to valves #5 through #9 before going to valves #1 through #4. The white wire marked COM is the one that doesn't have continuity between the 5-9 set and the 1-4 set of valves.

Unless you already know (or can guess from the layout of the valves what the likely cable route is) you will have to take a picture like the last one of all 9 valves.

However even that picture isn't useful because I can't tell with certainty how many wires are attached to each of those two wirenuts and what their colors are. You may want to carefully bent the wires to show the underside of the wirenuts and where necessary clean up the wires to show their colors.

authur
@comcast.net

authur

Anon

I think each valve has one black wire connected to color wire (ex: yellow for 1st station) while the white wire connected to COM wire. These wires then run to the controller via the cable. Therefore, logically only one COM wire shared to all stations. If this COM shorted then it should short other stations as well, right ? BTW, this spinkler system was built by sometime ago by the pro and it had been working until recently and I didn't alter the wires connection. I also tried to open wire at the valve of 1st station and measured again the power of station#2 through #4 and still see the power come on the same time. Is there anything need to be programmed at the controller for the COM wire if you know ?

leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
Netgear CG3000DCR
ZyXEL P-663HN-51

leibold

MVM

said by authur :

Therefore, logically only one COM wire shared to all stations. If this COM shorted then it should short other stations as well, right ?

Correct, there is only one COM (common) wire that needs to connect to one side of each valve solenoid.

That COM wire isn't shorted anywhere, it is disconnected/interrupted (which is the opposite of a short circuit).
leibold

1 edit

leibold to authur

MVM

to authur
said by authur :

Is there anything need to be programmed at the controller for the COM wire if you know ?

Based on all the information that you have provided so far there is absolutely nothing wrong with:
- the rainbird controller
- the wires at the controller end
- the cable from the controller to the first valve (which is definitely not one of the valves #1 through #4)

There is no amount of reprogramming the controller that can fix a disconnected wire.

Unfortunately for you, the problem is either inside one of the 9 valve covers (loose splice) or buried in the ground (damaged cable between valves).

If the COM wire is white at the rainbird controller and black at the valves it must be spliced somewhere (probably at one of the valves).
Edit: it seems I misread what you said about the wire colors. The color of the two wires from the solenoid to the wirenuts isn't really important since it is AC anyway (so no polarity issues). What matters are the colors of the wires in the cable that goes from the controller to all the valves. There may be more than one cable which makes it important to look for splices.

authur
@comcast.net

authur

Anon

I finally got it fixed but I had to hire a expert to trace out the open wire. They used the locator to identify the open COM node between valve#05 and valve#04. The confusion was that the COM wire run from valve#9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 in that order but the controller connected to valve#1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 in that order. That was why the first 4 valves (1 through 4) stop working because the COM wire open at valve#5. First 4 valves worked when the COM wire of valve#05 was reconnected.

Anyway, thanks for your help and I hope that this lesson-learned can be applied for someone else if they run into the same issue.
One more thing, it costs a lot ($$$) when you call a service that you're not sure what is wrong with the system (they will think something to charge you as even the issue is just a simple fix).