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jseymour

join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

1 recommendation

reply to Chubbysumo

Re: Frightening

said by Chubbysumo:

Health care plans are an investment in your employees, knowing that 99% will likely never use it, and those that will, will use it to keep themselves healthy, ...

Hahahahahahaha! In the country that invented the obesity epidemic, you claim the people will use their health care plans to "keep themselves healthy?" Hahahahaha!

Most people don't need either an expensive health care plan or expensive (western) medical "care" to "keep themselves healthy." They just need a balanced, nutritious diet and to get a bit of regular exercise. No health care plan in the world, "free" or not, can compensate for failing to do those things.

Jim


KodiacZiller
Premium
join:2008-09-04
73368
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to El Quintron
said by El Quintron:

said by FFH5:

The real risk to be worried about isn't phoning home. It is that, in a time of war, a signal could be sent that would cause the Chinese built hardware to self destruct, thereby turning off a huge part of US communications infrastructure.

This assumes that you're asking the same group of people to build both the hardware and software,

Uh, if you have subverted the hardware, then the software is inconsequential. Own the metal, you own the software too. If Intel put a backdoor into their chips, it wouldn't matter if you ran Windows, OSX, Linux, Unix, AIX, IRIX, whatever. It would still have ultimate control and could do all sorts of hard (or impossible) to detect things.
--
Getting people to stop using windows is more or less the same as trying to get people to stop smoking tobacco products. They dont want to change; they are happy with slowly dying inside. -- munky99999


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
said by KodiacZiller:

It would still have ultimate control and could do all sorts of hard (or impossible) to detect things.

Again I'm not a security expert, but, if I'm running a network and there's a bunch of encrypted layer 2 communications that I'm not familiar with happening on my network I'd be asking questions pretty quickly.

I'd also be communicating with the vendor to plug up those holes ASAP, if the vendor didn't cooperate then I'd be litigating the hell out of them.

Lastly wouldn't firmware updates (which is what I should've said when I was referring to software) resolve this irrespective of the original intent of the hardware?
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to openbox9
So maybe the government says to Cisco, Juniper, HP, etc.... that they WILL manufacture at home in giant shared factories - in order to on-shore manufacturing and reap some economies of scale.

But then those companies will say...."The US market is tiny compared to the rest of the world market, and we can still manufacture cheaper in China so that's where we're going to make our stuff for ALL markets."


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to Angrychair
said by Angrychair:

The humorous part is that the American government does exactly what they're accusing the Chinese government of doing - intercepting everything and allowing nothing to be private communication. I'm sure it's not a good idea for American interests to use Chinese gear that would spy on them, but for a small potato such as myself I'm not sure I see where it would matter for me.

I'm against both our own Gov't and foreign ones like China, Russia and Israel (yes they spy on us) spying on us. But at least our Government is elected by us... the Chinese, not so much.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to 88615298
said by 88615298:

said by fifty nine:

There's really no escape. Since we don't build anything here anymore

If we did people would bitch about high prices. People want these factory jobs back in America at the old $25-$30 an hour wages with full pension and fully paid health care for life, but still want these goods at "made in China" prices. Not realistic.

No one will work for $8-$10 an hour for maybe a 6% match in a 401k( meaning the worker actually has to contribute to his own retirement god forbid ) and a health care plan that requires the worker to pay some of that cost and ends when he retires.

And even in that scenario costs of goods would go up.

Bullshit. If CxOs can making millions and billions we can damn well pay workers a decent wage.

Honda, Toyota, Hyundai and others make cars here. The workers are paid reasonably well and the cars are of good quality. Why can't we do that with electronics?

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to MaynardKrebs
Trusted foundries exist and they don't necessarily need to be in the US. The access to them needs to be broadened to allow access by our critical infrastructure partners (i.e., some of the manufacturers that you mentioned). Yes, it costs money.

BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to El Quintron
Nope, look at intel microcode updates as a prime example, they had to patch microcode to make up for some die errors at some points in production.

There is always the possability of an asic embedded in there to self destruct circuits and such and all it takes is a magic packet to wake it up.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"


El Quintron
Resident Mouth Breather
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:4
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·TekSavvy DSL
said by BosstonesOwn:

Nope, look at intel microcode updates as a prime example, they had to patch microcode to make up for some die errors at some points in production.

There is always the possability of an asic embedded in there to self destruct circuits and such and all it takes is a magic packet to wake it up.

Self-destruct is bad, but less so than continual harvesting of information. I'm glad someone confirmed that this would be possible.

It lends credence to a "known vendors" argument.
--
Support Bacteria -- It's the Only Culture Some People Have


Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

1 recommendation

reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

said by Angrychair:

The humorous part is that the American government does exactly what they're accusing the Chinese government of doing - intercepting everything and allowing nothing to be private communication. I'm sure it's not a good idea for American interests to use Chinese gear that would spy on them, but for a small potato such as myself I'm not sure I see where it would matter for me.

I'm against both our own Gov't and foreign ones like China, Russia and Israel (yes they spy on us) spying on us. But at least our Government is elected by us... the Chinese, not so much.

The president is not elected by us. If it was Bush would not have been president in 2001.
The electoral college elects the president.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to KodiacZiller
"Not likely."

I agree it's not likely but it's not impossible. As long as there are humans and greed in the process it's always a possibility even it it's an extremely remote possibility.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to rradina
Kind of gives you the warm fuzzies about those folks who are always so concerned about their 2nd Amendment rights, now, doesn't it?

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Chubbysumo
n/m

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to Chubbysumo
I might characterize this as "Better than nothing, but a day late and a dollar short!" The Chinese have long maintained an active but low-key cyber-warfare program against the US (along with an active but low-key spying program utilizing Chinese nationals within US borders), where if nothing else they are conducting industrial espionage - or at least attempting to. This was one of the main topics at an FBI meeting I attended a few months back, where they made it clear that they are finally starting to take this stuff very seriously. I haven't read this report yet, but I'm curious as to what details it gives.


sdsd8

@sbcglobal.net
reply to jseymour
and most those healthcare plans don't even pay for nutrition counseling or mental counseling like psychotherapy. Most common factors that contribute to obesity: bad food, bad eating habits (i.e. long intervals, starving) lack of nutritious choices like fruites, veggies, even stress. Some people have underlying mental conditions (like depression) but they don't even know it but it influences their lifetime choices.


PaulHikeS2

join:2003-03-06
Fitchburg, MA
reply to Oh_No
And we vote for the electors. The system works as designed.
--
Jay: What the @#$% is the internet???


Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL
said by PaulHikeS2:

And we vote for the electors. The system works as designed.

Nope. Each state is different. It is up to the state to decide how electors are appointed. Each political party chooses electors. In most states, if their parties candidate wins the states popular vote then their parties chosen electors get to place the official votes. Most states dont list the electors names on the ballots. I think only 5 states have people vote for the candidate/electoral representative.
In most states the electors only vote in line with popular vote out of tradition. Some states have enacted laws that force the electors to vote with that states popular vote.

The electoral college was a compromise from one side that wanted to have congress elect the president and the other side that wanted the people to elect the president.
One reason for the compromise that led them away from the popular votes was issues with slavery between the north and south.
Another reason was small states favored the electoral system as during those times you were a citizen of your state first and country second, so they had a hardon for states power and the felt that a popular vote would give their state less power.

The original argument for compromise (to have congress elect the president) does not exist to day, thus it makes no sense to keep the electoral compromise going.
The only side left with a valid argument in the compromise is the popular vote side. Why keep doing something when there is no reason anymore to justify it??