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pat2k8

join:2000-12-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
reply to pulp46

Re: Bell Usage Meter counting LAN data?

Click for full size
i wish i could go back and get my bandwidth from my old dd-wrt, i believe this all started when i plugged my 2-wire 2701 in. But because i was under my cap i never noticed, i dont check on a regular basis, until now.

here is the last 6 months atached.
--
Pat2k8@yahoo.caBurlington, Ontario.

glussier

join:2002-11-12
Montreal, QC
reply to pat2k8

I'm not calling you a liar. What I'm saying is that how is Bell able to monitor your network traffic? I they were to do that with me, and calculate both download/upload on my inhouse network, I would end-up with 10TO of bandwidth/month.

If I were you, I would check for a trojan installed on 1 or more of your computers.



realthang

@supralink.com
reply to pulp46

Your friend downloaded tv shows from a usenet server on the internet (alt.binaries.teevee), therefore it counts as billable traffic. the traffic is counted at the CO, not your modem or router. therefore, any internal traffic such as copying files across your home lan doesn't count because bell can't see the traffic and doesn't care even if it could.



kibosh

join:2010-12-16
Whitby, ON
reply to pulp46

Just to throw in my 2 cents. I live in the Toronto area, I have a sagemcom combo router and I can assure you that my LAN traffic is definitely not counted against my bandwidth cap.

I am positive people on this forum would be screaming bloody murder if it did. There would be calls for class action lawsuits and heads would surely roll.


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by kibosh:

There would be calls for class action lawsuits and heads would surely roll.

You'd see $2.17 after plaintiff's lawyer fees.
As long as the plaintiff's lawyers get enough money to satisfy them and the wronged consumers get "something", there would be a pre-trial settlement.

As to the heads rolling part, you can be sure that any 'settlement' Bell would agree to would be for less than what they overcharged, so it would be a net win for Bell.

/welcome to the real world

zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
reply to pulp46

Unless the router/modem combo is routing the internal traffic through the internet?

How fast is the data moving through your LAN?


GeoStar

join:2011-02-10
j2e6f5
reply to pulp46

8ell they ask how many computers in your house , well maybe they multiply your bill by the number of computers to equal ur real bill right ?



dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..
reply to realthang

said by realthang :

Your friend downloaded tv shows from a usenet server on the internet (alt.binaries.teevee), therefore it counts as billable traffic. the traffic is counted at the CO, not your modem or router. therefore, any internal traffic such as copying files across your home lan doesn't count because bell can't see the traffic and doesn't care even if it could.

Is it even remotely possible that the router config is messed, and the traffic between two computers on the lan actually leave the lan and go out over the internet first?

Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by dillyhammer:

Is it even remotely possible that the router config is messed, and the traffic between two computers on the lan actually leave the lan and go out over the internet first?

Could there be a configuration option in the router firmware:
"Check here to increase your speed charges" option?

Does the end user use any off-site backup service that sends only the delta's? Something like that would tend to double the amount of transfer used.

The user should run a program like "Little Snitch" (OS x) or a Windows equivalent to see what's actually doing on at the machine level. Wireshark would do the trick too but there's a steep learning curve.


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..

said by MaynardKrebs:

Could there be a configuration option in the router firmware:
"Check here to increase your speed charges" option?

LOL. Yeah.

Something has GOT to be up with this though. I don't get it. The modem/router has nothing to do with the calculation of usage, right? It's done at the BAS if I'm not mistaken. That being the case, it stands to reason that if 10GB of lan traffic were initiated by a user and it magically shows up on their usage bill, that traffic had to leave their lan and hit the BAS. It's the simplest explanation, and all things being equal....

Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged


pat2k8

join:2000-12-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1

if 10GB of lan traffic were initiated by a user and it magically shows up on their usage bill, that traffic had to leave their lan and hit the BAS. It's the simplest explanation, and all things being equal....

Mike

I am waiting to test this theory, how crazy is it that my LAN traffic is routing through my BAS? I am open to any help or ideas that will quickly get to the bottom of this. I will be home tomorrow night......
--
Pat2k8@yahoo.caBurlington, Ontario.

kovy

join:2009-03-26
kudos:8

said by pat2k8:

if 10GB of lan traffic were initiated by a user and it magically shows up on their usage bill, that traffic had to leave their lan and hit the BAS. It's the simplest explanation, and all things being equal....

Mike

I am waiting to test this theory, how crazy is it that my LAN traffic is routing through my BAS? I am open to any help or ideas that will quickly get to the bottom of this. I will be home tomorrow night......

And if it does reach the BAS... then you'd notice speed be limited to your internet connection and the not LAN speed at all.


pat2k8

join:2000-12-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
reply to pulp46

As a hypothetical question, what if I had my 2-Wire connected to my LAN and my main PC connected, but using a separate PPPOE connection? If i transfered a file from my home network to this main PC, would it travel through the BAS? is that possible?
--
Pat2k8@yahoo.caBurlington, Ontario.



MJB

join:2012-01-29
reply to pulp46

why not buy a seperate router and avoid using the bell router/modem


glussier

join:2002-11-12
Montreal, QC
reply to pat2k8

It's easy to find out. Take the ip of that other computer on your network, and do a netstat of that ip on your computer. If the network is routed thru the internet, you'll see it right away.



pulp46
Premium
join:2003-01-28
reply to MJB

said by MJB:

why not buy a seperate router and avoid using the bell router/modem

I could certainly do that for him (total noob) but we only go to Toronto on holidays. He's got 2.5 months to sort this out.

glussier

join:2002-11-12
Montreal, QC
reply to MJB

It won't change anything.



MJB

join:2012-01-29

a seperate router would fix it since the traffic would avoid the bell modem/router

connect any devices which you will be playing media ( ps3) and the pc (server) to the router . disconnect the wan from the router.


glussier

join:2002-11-12
Montreal, QC

This is it, I would like to know what it would fix. The op, except for his excessive bandwidth, has no router problem, therefore he doesn't need a new router.


urbang33k

join:2010-02-13
Canada
kudos:1
reply to kovy

said by kovy:

And if it does reach the BAS... then you'd notice speed be limited to your internet connection and the not LAN speed at all.

This is kind of what I was getting at before. Depending on his upstream sync rate, if his LAN streaming traffic was hittng the BAS, he would be having a lot more issues with excessive buffering during playback. (IF indeed it would even work at all)

Remember. Its a 2wire. his MAX upload would be 1088 kb/s. But is probably at 800 kb/s.
--
Opinions and ideas expressed in my post are my own and in no way represent those of Bell Canada Enterprises, Bell Canada, Bell TV, Bell Internet, Bell Mobility, Bell Technical Solutions, Expertech, or any other partners under the BCE umbrella.


dillyhammer
START me up
Premium
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON
kudos:10
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·Start Communicat..

Yeah, I don't know if it's even possible. What I'm saying is I can't imagine how Bell would see internal lan traffic otherwise. The device has nothing to do with measuring or calculating usage. That's done on a separate piece of equipment far from the user's premises.

This just doesn't make any sense on a lot of levels.

But I will say this. If an ISP was able to cook up some scheme to measure lan traffic and bill the user for it... I would surely expect Bell to be the first, and the leader, in such an endeavour.



Mike
--
Cogeco - The New UBB Devil -»[Burloak] Usage Based Billing Nightmare
Cogeco UBB, No Modem Required - »[Niagara] 40gb of "usage" while the modem is unplugged


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

Bell - The Stuxnet of Billing ???



pat2k8

join:2000-12-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1

Click for full size
Well I am home, quickly hooked up my DD-WRT and got the house back online. Usage is "normal" and the last 5+ GB day was the 14th when I transfered a file from my NAS to my Desktop.

I remember questioning why my desktop was directly connected to my PPPOe and the 2-wire also was? I am curious if this appears as 2 connections through Bell and they tag my bandwidth?

anyways, I am maxed out for the month and will wait until the 27th to reconnect my 2-wire and prove out my theory.

Open to any other ideas.
--
Pat2k8@yahoo.caBurlington, Ontario.

a_mckie

join:2012-08-31
East York, ON

said by pat2k8 :
I am curious if this appears as 2 connections through Bell and they tag my bandwidth?
Are you suggesting the data goes from your home, to Bell, then back to your home again? Wouldn't the data be counted in your Upload data usage in that case?

-A


reallynow

@lightning.net
reply to pat2k8

Having LAN traffic go out to the Internet and back violates basic routing.

First, LAN uses rfc1918 addresses that would not route on the Internet.

Second, the net mask for the devices on the LAN would not send traffic to the default route since the devices all belong to the same local subnet.

Third, if your traffic went UP to the Internet and back DOWN to you machine then you would see 5gb upload and 5gb download, not 5gb download and less than 1gb upload.

Take your tinfoil hat off, get some sunlight and breath in the fresh air!



pat2k8

join:2000-12-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
reply to pulp46

I have warmed up to the idea that I am off my rocker. i am now looking to switch providers.

i did do a netstat with the 2-wire hooked -up and also tested my theory, but on the 2-wire i only can watch the Bell usage meter. Not very reliable. Netstat with the 2-wire shows a buch of WAN connections, as if it is taking priority over the LAN connection? They both travel down 1 cable to the 2-wire.

Anyhoo, if the is any interest in my netstat I dont want to post if nobody wants to see it.

I will watch the usage meter to see if my 650mb file transfer shows as a download. i am the only person on the network in my house right now......thx all.....
--

Burlington, Ontario.



pulp46
Premium
join:2003-01-28

Please post the netstat results, pat!



pat2k8

join:2000-12-24
Burlington, ON
kudos:1
reply to pulp46

okee dokee:

The first netstat is with my dd-wrt router and DSL-300G modem

The second is the 2-wire as the modem and router, my PC is connected to the router AND a PPPoe connection.(still unsure how this became connected before)

Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Tower>netstat

Active Connections

Proto Local Address Foreign Address State
TCP 127.0.0.1:5354 Tower-PC:49155 ESTABLISHED
TCP 127.0.0.1:49155 Tower-PC:5354 ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:54872 208.89.14.135:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:54873 208.89.14.135:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:55947 www-slb-11-12-prn1:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 192.168.2.24:55949 67.69.174.115:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 192.168.2.24:55950 67.69.174.34:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 192.168.2.24:55974 67.69.174.18:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 192.168.2.24:55984 star-slb-ecmp-01-prn1:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 192.168.2.24:56004 yyz06s06-in-f23:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56005 yyz06s07-in-f11:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56006 yyz06s07-in-f11:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56007 yyz06s06-in-f23:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56008 yyz06s06-in-f23:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56010 yyz06s06-in-f23:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56012 yyz06s07-in-f24:https TIME_WAIT
TCP 192.168.2.24:56015 yyz06s06-in-f6:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56016 yyz06s06-in-f6:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56017 yyz06s06-in-f23:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56068 yyz06s07-in-f15:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56069 yyz06s07-in-f15:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56070 yyz06s07-in-f15:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56071 yyz06s06-in-f31:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56072 yyz06s06-in-f31:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56073 yyz06s06-in-f2:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56074 yyz06s06-in-f2:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56075 yyz06s06-in-f2:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56076 yyz06s06-in-f9:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56077 yyz06s06-in-f9:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56078 yyz06s06-in-f9:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56079 yyz06s06-in-f9:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56080 yyz06s06-in-f9:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56081 yyz06s06-in-f9:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56082 yyz06s06-in-f3:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56083 yyz06s06-in-f3:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56084 yyz06s06-in-f3:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56085 yyz06s06-in-f3:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56086 yyz06s07-in-f8:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56087 yyz06s07-in-f8:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56088 yyz06s07-in-f8:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56089 yyz06s07-in-f8:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56090 yyz06s07-in-f8:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56091 yyz06s07-in-f8:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56092 yyz06s06-in-f3:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56093 yyz06s06-in-f2:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56094 yyz06s06-in-f3:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56095 yyz06s06-in-f2:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56096 yyz06s06-in-f2:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56104 DCOSLA:https TIME_WAIT
TCP 192.168.2.24:56115 bell:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.24:56137 DNS-321:microsoft-ds ESTABLISHED

C:\Users\Tower>netstat

Active Connections

Proto Local Address Foreign Address State
TCP 65.92.49.24:56286 yyz06s06-in-f0:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56287 yyz06s06-in-f0:https ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56294 www-ecmp-06-prn1:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56295 67.69.174.115:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56296 67.69.174.115:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56297 67.69.174.115:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56298 67.69.174.115:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56299 67.69.174.115:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56300 67.69.174.115:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56301 67.69.174.25:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56302 www-ecmp-06-prn1:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56303 157.238.74.43:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56304 157.238.74.43:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56305 204.183.124.123:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56306 67.69.174.25:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56307 157.238.74.34:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56308 157.238.74.34:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56309 67.69.174.25:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56310 67.69.174.25:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56311 67.69.174.25:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56312 67.69.174.25:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56313 67.69.174.17:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56314 67.69.174.9:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56315 67.69.174.9:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56316 67.69.174.114:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56317 67.69.174.35:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56318 67.69.174.35:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56319 67.69.174.35:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56320 67.69.174.35:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56321 67.69.174.35:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56322 67.69.174.35:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56323 67.69.174.128:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56324 67.69.174.130:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56325 157.238.74.59:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56326 67.69.174.130:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56327 67.69.174.130:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56328 67.69.174.130:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56329 67.69.174.130:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56330 67.69.174.130:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56331 157.238.74.59:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56332 204.183.124.98:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56333 204.183.124.98:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56334 204.183.124.98:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56335 204.183.124.98:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56336 star-slb-10-08-prn1:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56337 star-slb-10-08-prn1:http TIME_WAIT
TCP 65.92.49.24:56338 www-ecmp-06-prn1:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 65.92.49.24:56339 channel-ecmp-13-prn1:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 127.0.0.1:2869 Tower-PC:56267 ESTABLISHED
TCP 127.0.0.1:5354 Tower-PC:49155 ESTABLISHED
TCP 127.0.0.1:5357 Tower-PC:56212 TIME_WAIT
TCP 127.0.0.1:5357 Tower-PC:56220 TIME_WAIT
TCP 127.0.0.1:5357 Tower-PC:56225 TIME_WAIT
TCP 127.0.0.1:5357 Tower-PC:56230 TIME_WAIT
TCP 127.0.0.1:5357 Tower-PC:56266 TIME_WAIT
TCP 127.0.0.1:5357 Tower-PC:56274 TIME_WAIT
TCP 127.0.0.1:49155 Tower-PC:5354 ESTABLISHED
TCP 127.0.0.1:56237 Tower-PC:56238 ESTABLISHED
TCP 127.0.0.1:56238 Tower-PC:56237 ESTABLISHED
TCP 127.0.0.1:56267 Tower-PC:icslap ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.103:56215 N Router 687F741C61AC:1780 TIME_WAIT
TCP 192.168.2.103:56239 yyz06s06-in-f20:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.103:56240 yyz06s06-in-f23:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.103:56243 yyz06s06-in-f15:https FIN_WAIT_1
TCP 192.168.2.103:56245 OCSP:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.103:56273 mymodem:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.103:56278 mymodem:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.103:56279 mymodem:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.103:56280 mymodem:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.103:56281 mymodem:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.103:56282 mymodem:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.103:56283 mymodem:http ESTABLISHED
TCP 192.168.2.103:56293 DNS-321:microsoft-ds ESTABLISHED

C:\Users\Tower>
--

Burlington, Ontario.



pulp46
Premium
join:2003-01-28

A LOT more TIME_WAIT going on with the 2wire. Hopefully someone with great experience will chyme in, thanks pat!



anon

@torservers.net
reply to pat2k8

Would you please try netstat -n so we can see the IP addresses rather than the host names? It will be easier to determine on-net/off-net traffic.

From the looks of it though, those yyzs06-*in-f* entries are typically Google CDN (Content Distribution Network) for Google/YouTube video streaming. These are local sites that help serve up content quicker.

If your PC was idle when you ran netstat, then there's some software running in the background doing something you are not aware of.