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ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926 to MaynardKrebs

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to MaynardKrebs

Re: It's a sad day for America

You know when else was a sad day? 9-11-2001

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

1 recommendation

Noah Vail

Premium Member

said by ITALIAN926:

You know when else was a sad day? 9-11-2001

Yea, but today was the day the terrorists won.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Hey, its a shame that they didnt implement these policies IN 2001. Or do you think the government cares about whether youre calling your Mom enough?

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

said by ITALIAN926:

Hey, its a shame that they didnt implement these policies IN 2001. Or do you think the government cares about whether youre calling your Mom enough?

Do you think this was mostly about phone traffic? I'm beginning to think you get your news from the mainstream press.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25 to ITALIAN926

Member

to ITALIAN926
Yes, so with that in mind we should all voluntarily give all personal information: fingerprints, DNA, Retina scans, handwriting samples along with allowing any all communications and actions fully traced, tracked and data dumped by the US government. Just to make sure some moron(s) doesnt kill a couple thousand people.

News flash, the US government has killed more innocent US citizens through their actions then ALL terriorist groups combined.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

1 recommendation

ITALIAN926

Member

How bout an Atomic bomb? Would that be enough reason? If you dont think these maniacs will eventually get their hands of the ingredients, youre in denial.

Our Bill of Rights was written a long time ago. Before planes, before skyscrapers, before the discovery of nuclear fission. When it was written, warfare consisted of a thousand men lining up face to face, and shoot cooridinated single shots on command. Times a changin.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

1 recommendation

Skippy25

Member

First, they havent been able to do it yet in the last 50 years and this huge infringement on our rights just started.

Second, concerns with that are with foreigners and the thing we are discussing here are US Citizens being violated. Big difference there chief.

Third, how do you think this is going to apply when "we the people" get tired of our government and want to do a wholesale replacement of it? Even legally, there is nothing from stopping them for interfering with that and there is absolutely no oversight to prevent that from happening.

Fourth, the big issue isnt that they do it. It is that they illegally do it without accountability. I am perfectly fine with any agency going to a member of the judicial branch and requesting a warrant for any and all invasions of privacy. If they have the evidence and facts needed to convince a judge or panel of judges that it is needed then they should certainly do it.

Fifth, Those Bill of Rights you just crapped on are there to protect all of us, including morons that want to crap on them, from the very far reaching and powerful hand of the US Government and they were put there because power and greed corrupts and without a doubt that is shown every day in this nation of ours.

Sixth, There has to be checks and balances in every branch of the government for the very reasons I pointed above (power and greed). Our founding fathers knew this 200+ years ago and it was true then just as it is even more so true now. You may want to give up all those checks and balances and allow unsuppressed power and greed throughout the US government for the little security you get from it, however, you do not speak for me and you are not a majority.

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail

Premium Member

said by Skippy25:

First,...

Second, ...

Third, ...

Fourth, ...

Fifth, ...

Sixth, ...

I concur.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

You know who was a US citizen? Timothy McVeigh. So I'll edit my original statement, too bad this program wasnt in effect in 1994 !

Please tell me how the United States' wiretapping has infringed upon YOUR life. Please list all the ways...


nonamesleft
join:2011-11-07
Manitowoc, WI

nonamesleft to Noah Vail

Member

to Noah Vail
said by Noah Vail:

said by ITALIAN926:

You know when else was a sad day? 9-11-2001

Yea, but today was the day the terrorists won.

Nevermind.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25 to ITALIAN926

Member

to ITALIAN926
You can name probably 10 things in history that have happened that may or may not have been stopped by this. I assure you McVeigh wont be the last citizen terrorist, even with this blanket of security you think you are covered by.

The only way I have to list is that it has infringed on MY life by passing all of my communications through AT&T and then to the US government with no oversight and no accountability in any form. Just as it has done to millions of others.

You are a "terrorist" of the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. How do we defend ourselves against someone like you?

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

all of your communication? Please share details? How has your life been altered since this began?

If this program could have been in effect in 2000, and it would have STOPPED the attack, would you have implemented it? Or would you let 2001 happen in order to preserve our outdated constitution?

If this program actually has STOPPED a nuclear attack, do you think this information would have been released to the public? HELL NO. As far as Im concerned, such an attack could have been prevented, or it CAN be prevented in the future. There are people out there that burn our flag and would defecate on the Bill of Rights given the opportunity. I have nothing to hide, I have not a single thing to worry about if big brother is monitoring my life.
Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Skippy25

Member

Yes, ALL of my communications and ALL of my internet data passes freely to the US government thanks to this with no oversight or accountability. Regardless of the effects, it is still a violation of my rights. So by your logic, they can also go to my house/car, your house/car or every house/car in the US while we are not present, search it and and bug it while leaving no evidence of their presence and that would be OK with you being that we would never know and thus have our lives altered by it. Does that sound about right?

So really your measurement of fair, right and according to the Constitution and Bill of Rights is whether or not it directly effects us or if we know it is happening compared to the potential life savings. That is the stupidest and most asinine thing I have ever heard. As long as it stops a "nuclear bomb" or some van with C4, to hell with the constitution and our rights!

Regardless your assumption is that it would have been stopped. You do not know that and the 9/11 incident could have been stopped based on the current knowledge they already had with their then current system. No matter what, you assume that having this in place then would have stopped it. I assume it would not have, who is right?

Regardless, as it has been pointed out before you may want to give up the keys to the castle to feel safe, but you do not speak for me and you do not speak for the majority. You are that paranoid freak cousin that everyone makes fun of at the family reunion. Accept that and move on.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

OK, I withdraw all my messages. The government DOESNT want to prevent terrorism, they want to eavesdrop on YOUR communications. Im convinced.

Happy now?

Noah Vail
Oh God please no.
Premium Member
join:2004-12-10
SouthAmerica

Noah Vail to ITALIAN926

Premium Member

to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

How has your life been altered since this began?

That's not how inherent rights work. I NEVER have to justify a reason for liberty, it's mine by default.
said by ITALIAN926:

If this program could have been in effect in 2000, and it would have STOPPED the attack, would you have implemented it?

You want to debate a premise that you just pulled out of your hat? Really?
said by ITALIAN926:

Or would you let 2001 happen in order to preserve our outdated constitution?

My Constitution isn't outdated.
said by ITALIAN926:

If this program actually has STOPPED a nuclear attack...

The substantive threat we've faced for a nuclear detonation was from the Soviet Union.
said by ITALIAN926:

There are people out there that burn our flag and would defecate on the Bill of Rights given the opportunity.

Yea. That isn't a worthwhile reason to forfeit my rights either.
said by ITALIAN926:

I have nothing to hide

Great. Prove it by keeping a public webcam in your bedroom and bathroom for the rest of your life.

Or do you have something to hide?