 tp0dyabbazooie
Premium Member
join:2001-02-13
Bulger, PA |
tp0d
Premium Member
2012-Oct-9 5:41 pm
sparkys- is it legal?Sparkys- got a question...
Doin a job in a commercial kitchen, and I need a new 15a ckt for a new tankless waterheater I'm installing. There is an existing 8/3 unused ckt, I think 40a breaker, close to where I am. Running a new ckt would be a royal PITA.
Can I install a fused disconnect to supply a single plug for my appliance? Is it this illegal
Tnx
-j |
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 John Galt6Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp |
Short answer is 'yes'.
You'd have to use a 60A disconnect with fusing to 15A, or, if you use a 30A disconnect, replace the upstream CB to no more than 30A. |
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tp0dyabbazooie
Premium Member
join:2001-02-13
Bulger, PA |
tp0d
Premium Member
2012-Oct-9 6:05 pm
Ok so if I get a 60a rated disconnect with 15a fuses, its legal? Or mebe for temporary till the owners can get an electrician in there
Tnx
-j |
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 alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC |
to John Galt6
said by John Galt6:You'd have to use a 60A disconnect with fusing to 15A, or, if you use a 30A disconnect, replace the upstream CB to no more than 30A.
Curiosity: Why a 60A disconnect? The upstream CB protects the wire that goes to the disconnect, that wire is of proper gauge (If at 40A or lower). Anything connected downstream of the disconnect is protected by the 15A fuses. |
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John Galt6Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp |
You forgot protection for the disconnect...
Disconnects are rated for 30A or 60A...so those are the choices. You cannot put a 30A disconnect on a circuit protected at more than 30 amps. |
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 leibold
MVM
join:2002-07-09
Sunnyvale, CA
ZyXEL P-663HN-51
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to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:Curiosity: Why a 60A disconnect? While a fused 40A disconnect may exist as a specialty part, the next larger common rating is 60A (which will be easier to get). |
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 Msradell
Premium Member
join:2008-12-25
Louisville, KY |
to tp0d
said by tp0d:Ok so if I get a 60a rated disconnect with 15a fuses, its legal? Or mebe for temporary till the owners can get an electrician in there
Tnx
-j It's actually legal to leave it that way permanently if the owner wants as long as he doesn't need this circuit for something else. |
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TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada |
TheMG to tp0d
Premium Member
2012-Oct-9 8:40 pm
to tp0d
Only 15A for a tankless heater? That must be one heck of a low capacity heater. Since it's a commercial building I'm going to assume 208V, that's only 3.1kW, good for no more than about 1-1.5GPM of hot water. |
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Zach
Premium Member
join:2006-11-26
Llano, CA |
Zach
Premium Member
2012-Oct-9 8:47 pm
For some reason I'm thinking it's a gas-fired heater. Upon my first read, I thought the same thing you did though.  |
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tp0dyabbazooie
Premium Member
join:2001-02-13
Bulger, PA |
tp0d
Premium Member
2012-Oct-9 9:39 pm
I'm installing a Rinnai RU98 gas tankless. It is a 199kbtu gas heater, 96% efficient. Uses about 4a max at full fire.
I picked up a 60a fusible disconnect at lowes, but they didn't have any 20a H type fuses, lowest was 35a. Got another coupla places to check for fuses, might need some adapters to use smaller fuses, if avail.
Doin the install at a local church. I'll take some pics and upload em
-j |
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TheMG
Premium Member
join:2007-09-04
Canada |
TheMG
Premium Member
2012-Oct-9 11:15 pm
Gas heater, of course, why didn't I think of that...
Makes a lot more sense now. |
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 nunyaLXI 483
MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO ·Charter
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to tp0d
It would be much easier to change the breaker to a 15A, and re-purpose the existing circuit.
There are also code requirements on where you can put branch circuit OCP devices.
Are there no GP receptacles nearby that could be tapped instead? |
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to tp0d
While its certainly not the proper way to go, it could be code-compliant if done the right way. You would need to:
1. Follow the tap rule - its a tap.
2. Use listed equipment that is purpose built to support a single 15A fuse in a 60A fused disconnect. Or better yet, use a very small, 60A circuit breaker panel. Or use a 30A fuse panel with 15A fuse, and reduce the upstream OCPD to 30A.
3. If the 15A circuit & receptacle within the commercial kitchen, it must be GFCI protected.
Would I do it this way? No. It calls for running a new circuit, IMHO. |
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ke4pym
Premium Member
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC |
to tp0d
said by tp0d:I'm installing a Rinnai RU98 gas tankless. It is a 199kbtu gas heater, 96% efficient. Uses about 4a max at full fire.
You're gonna love it! » Got a Rinnai installed today! |
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said by ke4pym:said by tp0d:I'm installing a Rinnai RU98 gas tankless. It is a 199kbtu gas heater, 96% efficient. Uses about 4a max at full fire.
You're gonna love it! » Got a Rinnai installed today! What is your cost and expected ROI? |
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tp0dyabbazooie
Premium Member
join:2001-02-13
Bulger, PA |
to ke4pym
said by ke4pym:said by tp0d:I'm installing a Rinnai RU98 gas tankless. It is a 199kbtu gas heater, 96% efficient. Uses about 4a max at full fire.
You're gonna love it! » Got a Rinnai installed today! Lol, i`m gonna love the $ when the customer pays! hahh actually I have a Bosch tankless in my house now, got it free as a test unit. Cant complain about that. Glad to hear you like your Rinnai though. If I had to replace my heater tomorrow, it would be a new Rinnai. I`ll be elaborating on the new model in the next post -j |
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tp0d
3 edits |
tp0d
Premium Member
2012-Oct-10 9:25 pm
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slice is 4 inches by 1/8 deep. has iodine on it. not enuf for stiches | 
taped it up... lol |
Ok, heres an update.. Got the heater installed, as seen in pics.. Also cut the shit out of my arm with a piece of 3/4" tracpipe, was a dumbass move. Did it about 1/4 into the job, duct taped that bitch up and kept movin.. Heater is a new one for me. Its the newest high efficiency Rinnai, the RU98i. They turned the guts of the heater upside down, the burners are on top, and the secondary heat exchanger is on the bottom, with a U shaped exhaust conductor. Damn this thing is quiet. I have a customer with a RC98hpi that had complaints about fan noise (shes a pickass, but a rich pickass), and I might have to recommend swapping this heater out, as it is wayyy quieter. Dunno if she`ll go for the price tag, but ya never know. As for the electrics, the maintenance guy felt better if I just ran a 25ft extension cord as a temporary, and he is going to have a sparky come in and wire up a new dedicated ckt for the heater, not a bad idea. I didnt feel like kludging it anyways, and now I can return approx 35$ of product. (the disconnect and 22$ worth of fuses and adapters) Oh, and I used 1/2" copper piping, as I only had 1/2" to tap into, the church just wanted to get hot water to the kitchen again, as the boiler had failed, and they didnt want to replace the whole thing (10-15k$ job) -j |
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 Postal8First pull up, then pull down.
Premium Member
join:2000-08-30
Simi Valley, CA |
Postal8
Premium Member
2012-Oct-10 9:51 pm
Uh, I think that could use a few stitches.... |
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 dosdoxies
Premium Member
join:2004-12-15
Wallingford, PA |
dosdoxies
Premium Member
2012-Oct-10 11:33 pm
said by Postal8:Uh, I think that could use a few stitches....
"'Tis but a scratch!" (The black knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.) |
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tp0dyabbazooie
Premium Member
join:2001-02-13
Bulger, PA |
tp0d
Premium Member
2012-Oct-11 8:58 am
"just a flesh wound!"
hehh
-j |
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ke4pym
Premium Member
join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC |
ke4pym to tp0d
Premium Member
2012-Oct-11 10:26 am
to tp0d
The exhaust fan on mine has gotten a little nosier as it has aged (it too is 96% effc). But it doesn't bother me. At least I know it is working!
That one looks like mine. Except mine has a condensate drain on it. |
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to dosdoxies
said by dosdoxies:said by Postal8:Uh, I think that could use a few stitches....
"'Tis but a scratch!" (The black knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.) we shall bite each other!! that said nice looking install |
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to Postal8
said by Postal8:Uh, I think that could use a few stitches....
Clean off the blood and iodine (BTW, iodine? what century are you in? use silvadene (hard but not impossible to get OTC) or neosporin ) and push the skin together, then superglue it, do not let the superglue sink into the cut in the skin. There should be enough plasma/blood/oozing in the push together cut to prevent the superglue from going down into the cut. The superglue will fall off in 2-3 days if you dont do anything and the jaggies of super glue will rip open the cut again. Solution, put more superglue around the edges of the existing super glue patch to keep the existing patch still. Eventually when it is healed, you just dont add more super glue, and wet the skin and the super glue will fall off. |
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 DannyZGentoo Fanboy
Premium Member
join:2003-01-29
united state
1 recommendation |
DannyZ
Premium Member
2012-Oct-11 5:40 pm
I would just use iodine and quality butterfly closures with a triple antibiotic like neosporin at night for the first few nights. Keeping it clean is vital and with superglue you can't wash as needed. |
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John Galt6Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp |
to tp0d
I went into the copy room of an office building one night, and an existing 2x4 fixture just happened to fall out of the ceiling from 10 feet up. The corner gouged out a piece of flesh in my upper arm about the size of a quarter in diameter and thickness. No major vessels cut, but it sure bled a lot...and I do mean a lot. Someone had cut the t-bar and there were no seismic wires attached... I had the office all torn apart so I used the electrician's bandage (black tape, of course  ) and spent the next 4 hours getting the office back together for 8 AM. Finished up and THEN went to the ER for stitches...it needed them. |
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alkizmo
join:2007-06-25
Pierrefonds, QC |
to patcat88
Why? WHyyyyyyyy!? I understand the duct tape for immediate "temporary repairs", but to go as far never going to a clinic or hospital to get it stiched and get some antibiotics is... well, I guess no insurance? |
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JoelC707
Premium Member
join:2002-07-09
Lanett, AL |
to patcat88
Funny you mention superglue...
You know those hard plastic clamshell cases that you can NEVER get open after you buy the item? I was cutting one open several years ago and decided that scissors would be safer than a knife (I could just see the knife slipping on the corner or something and cutting me). Well, I'm rounding the corner with my scissors and lo and behold they slip out and jab my left hand on the side just behind my index finger.
I've got a nice little scar there now but dad used the super glue trick on it, though he put one drop down inside the opening. It quit bleeding almost immediately and otherwise healed up nicely. If I pinch the skin over the scar I can feel a hard spot in the center, superglue I assume LOL. |
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to alkizmo
said by alkizmo:Why? WHyyyyyyyy!? I understand the duct tape for immediate "temporary repairs", but to go as far never going to a clinic or hospital to get it stiched and get some antibiotics is... well, I guess no insurance?
alkizmo, back in the day i worked at a large steakhouse, we didnt dare call in sick during the month of november and december, one time i sliced myself pretty good, our chef or war nurse as i called her, fixed me up with gauze, duct tape and vodka. to this day im shocked i dont have a scar! |
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 SmokChsrWho let the magic smoke out?
Premium Member
join:2006-03-17
Saint Augustine, FL |
to tp0d
Just don't forget making sure your tetanus shot is up to date. Superglue works nicely, along with several other methods of closing up. you probably really do (or did) want to get that cut closed up via some method. |
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tp0dyabbazooie
Premium Member
join:2001-02-13
Bulger, PA |
to alkizmo
I have good insurance, just dont want to sit in the ER for god knows how long.. and shit, this is one of the smaller cuts i`ve tended to myself.. I guess it helps that my aunt and sister are nurses... i duno..
its healing nicely, put a gauze pad on it with some fresh iodine, taped it on with some waterproof tape, worked all day like that. no problems.. It is a little tender, but doesnt 'hurt', ie infected.. The iodine has worked great for me.. ymmv..
and smoke, i`m up to date with tetanus.. the cut was caused by a stainless steel gas line.. bleh.
-j |
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) and spent the next 4 hours getting the office back together for 8 AM.