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Expand your moderator at work

NCRGuy

join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to Paolo

Re: [Rant] Ontario Photo ID card now available at more locations

said by Paolo:

said by Gone:

said by Guspaz:

Ontario doesn't allow OHIP cards to be used as ID, but the opposite is true in Quebec

Not true. It is perfectly acceptable to accept an Ontario health card as photo ID. The issue is that it is illegal for the OHIP number to be copied down by anyone other than the Ministry of Health or a health care provider, meaning anyone that keeps copies of identification or the numbers (e.g. banks) can't use a health card.

I'm surprised that Quebec has no similar provision, being that one's health records are... well... about as private as anything the government keeps track of can be. Those numbers are not exactly something I would want anyone to have a copy of.

As for the Ontario Photo ID being a travel document, it's in the works. It'll eventually work the same way as an EDL once the program is up and running for those who want the option added. It was their intention to offer this all along, but apparently there were cost issues or so they say.

i have a letter FROM OHIP that specifically states, you are not requird to show your ohip card to anyone who is not authorized helth care professional. I went to a bar/club once and they asked for my id, i said i only have my ohip card on me and he asked to see it so i opened my wallet and instead of pulling out my ohip card i handed him the little letter i got, i cut it smaller so it would fit in my wallet and highlighted the part where it said your not required to show it to anyone who is not health care professoinal, and i askd him if he was a doctor or nurse? and he read the letter, felt embarrased and let me in and did not bother me any more.

You're not required to show it to him, but you can choose to do so. In this case you clearly chose to do so. There was nothing wrong with it, and I'm pretty sure what you interpreted as embarrassment was actually confusion, as he couldn't understand why someone would carry that letter around with them.

Sukunai
Premium
join:2008-05-07
kudos:1
Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX
reply to simon726
I really WANT a decent photo ID option for myself actually.

But I am already covered where it really matters. In my wallet I have my old army dogtags, which has my name, and my blood type, and frankly, THAT is all that truly matters to me.

Being denied a rental is not life and death for me. But my dogtags will survive almost any conceivable accident I could end up in.


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
reply to NCRGuy
said by NCRGuy:

You're not required to show it to him, but you can choose to do so. In this case you clearly chose to do so. There was nothing wrong with it, and I'm pretty sure what you interpreted as embarrassment was actually confusion, as he couldn't understand why someone would carry that letter around with them.

what do u mean I clearly chose to? i didnt show him my card what so ever? all I showed to him was the letter they send with your card that says who can and who cant ask for your card. please re-read what I wrote next time. G's
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to Bob4
said by Bob4:

OK, but simon726 said if you want to stop driving (implies this is being done voluntarily), you must surrender your drivers licence (implies this is mandatory).

I've never heard if such a thing. You renew your Ontario license every 5yrs and you don't require additional testing till you reach the age of 80.

If you don't want to drive anymore, just don't renew your license, if you let it go for more then a year?(I think) you start from the scratch again, and have to go through the graduated licensing system.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
if u let it expire for even one day, you have to do the entire graduated licencing system over. my friend failed his g2 exit test, and lost his g1, he had to re-take it cus his licence expired before his g2 exit test, he was allowed a temporary extention up to the same day as his road test.
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!

NCRGuy

join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to Paolo
said by Paolo:

said by NCRGuy:

You're not required to show it to him, but you can choose to do so. In this case you clearly chose to do so. There was nothing wrong with it, and I'm pretty sure what you interpreted as embarrassment was actually confusion, as he couldn't understand why someone would carry that letter around with them.

what do u mean I clearly chose to? i didnt show him my card what so ever? all I showed to him was the letter they send with your card that says who can and who cant ask for your card. please re-read what I wrote next time. G's

Apologies. The absence of comprehensible use of grammar, punctuation or syntax made your post difficult to understand.

Anyway, when he asked you for id, you said you had your health card, thereby offering it up. Had I been working the door, and you handed me that letter, I would have told you to provide me with ID, or go elsewhere.


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
its not important what you would have told me what to do, that is irrelivant to the discussion, the discussion is if a health card is valid id. its your word vs the letter from the ministry of health, just because you said you will accept heald card as valid id, does not make you superceede the ministry of healths. they are superior to you. you have to ask for an alternate id, which i would then pull out my ontario drivers licence, which is expird but it has the sticker on it clearly stating "valid photo id only" you shold not refuse this, some clubs and bars and restaurants are known to, which they are violating this because they think they are better than the ministry of transportation (mto)
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!

NCRGuy

join:2008-03-03
Ottawa, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
said by Paolo:

its not important what you would have told me what to do, that is irrelivant to the discussion, the discussion is if a health card is valid id. its your word vs the letter from the ministry of health, just because you said you will accept heald card as valid id, does not make you superceede the ministry of healths. they are superior to you. you have to ask for an alternate id, which i would then pull out my ontario drivers licence, which is expird but it has the sticker on it clearly stating "valid photo id only" you shold not refuse this, some clubs and bars and restaurants are known to, which they are violating this because they think they are better than the ministry of transportation (mto)

Ah. So you had other id and were just being a dick.

He asked you for id, and it's then up to you to provide it. Not play "I have a health card, but you can't have it." And just because you have valid id does not entitle you to entry to a bar. There are many reasons a bar or club can deny you entry, including acting like a dick, which you were.

peterboro
Avatars are for posers
Premium
join:2006-11-03
Peterborough, ON
reply to Paolo
said by Paolo:

if u let it expire for even one day, you have to do the entire graduated licencing system over. my friend failed his g2 exit test, and lost his g1, he had to re-take it cus his licence expired before his g2 exit test, he was allowed a temporary extention up to the same day as his road test.

Wrong.


digitalfutur
Sees More Than Shown
Premium
join:2000-07-15
BurlingtonON
kudos:2
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

Show me your papers.. another step towards everyone carrying identify cards.

So how do you prove ID with no ID?
--
Logic requires one to deal with decisions that one's ego will not permit.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing - Edmund Burke.


corster
Premium
join:2002-02-23
Gatineau, QC
reply to simon726
said by simon726:

They would consider this non-drivers photo ID card a fake, even though it's government-issued. I find that unacceptable. If you ever been to a club or bar and there is someone with a handheld card scanner verifying to sure if your card is genuine, rather than a fake. I would wish if the manufacturers who build these devices provide a "software/firmware" update to support the Ontario Photo Card for non-drivers.

Do they even need one? I've never actually seen anyone try to verify a Ontario Photo Card but since they'reissued by MTO and just piggyback on the Drivers License infrastructure, shouldn't they already work with those devices?

Does the card number conform to the current Drivers License numbering format?

said by simon726:

I really wish there was a system in place telling the customer if they hold a driver's licence when applying for the Ontario Photo Card.

There is. The Application form clearly states it. In addition, if you hold a drivers license the ServiceOntario staff will see it on the screen when they input your information - after all, these cards are issued by MTO using the existing Drivers License issuing infrastructure, and as far as their computer system is concerned, the photo card is a class of drivers license that doesn't allow you to drive. As such, the same checks in place to ensure someone doesn't have two drivers licenses apply here.

I went with a friend of mine to ServiceOntario last week, and she decided to get a Photo Card while she was there to renew her passport. Her Drivers License expired two years ago, but when they in-putted her information into the system to issue the Photo Card, it showed that she had an expired license and they actually asked for it back.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia

1 edit
reply to digitalfutur
said by digitalfutur:

said by elwoodblues:

Show me your papers.. another step towards everyone carrying identify cards.

So how do you prove ID with no ID?

There is no requirement in law to show any ID unless driving where upon request I must identify myself with a drivers license. If stopped by a police officer,I can volunteer the information, but again no law says I have to.

Do you have a green or red/white health card? If you have the latter does anyone ask if you are Digital Fur?

While in a different realm, look at the US with voter ID laws, how many people have ZERO identification, no birth certificate/passport etc... They seem to do just fine without any.

--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
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reply to Paolo
said by Paolo:

if u let it expire for even one day, you have to do the entire graduated licencing system over. my friend failed his g2 exit test, and lost his g1, he had to re-take it cus his licence expired before his g2 exit test, he was allowed a temporary extention up to the same day as his road test.

If you let your probationary, graduated licence expire, then yes you do need to go through the whole thing again. If you have a full non probationary licence you do not have to do so.
--
Tom


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to Paolo
said by Paolo:

its not important what you would have told me what to do, that is irrelivant to the discussion, the discussion is if a health card is valid id. its your word vs the letter from the ministry of health, just because you said you will accept heald card as valid id, does not make you superceede the ministry of healths. they are superior to you. you have to ask for an alternate id, which i would then pull out my ontario drivers licence, which is expird but it has the sticker on it clearly stating "valid photo id only" you shold not refuse this, some clubs and bars and restaurants are known to, which they are violating this because they think they are better than the ministry of transportation (mto)

Here's how it works:

If you are required to show ID you may, completely at your discretion and without being told to, show your Ontario Health Card. If that is your only ID and you elect not to show it, then you will be refused entry. A driver's licence with the little sticker actually says it's a valid photo ID only in conjunction with the temporary driver's licence paper that they issue with the sticker.

That means that if you arrive with your driver's licence and show it to me and it has that little sticker on it, unless you show me the temp licence that you got with the sticker, you aren't getting in.

And just so you know, clubs, bars, casinos, et all can refuse you entry at any time. If you give me a completely valid driver's licence and I don't like the faded picture or faded text on it, I can refuse to accept it. The MTO does not dictate who has to accept your driver's licence as photo ID.
--
Tom
Expand your moderator at work


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
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·TekSavvy Cable
·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to elwoodblues

Re: [Rant] Ontario Photo ID card now available at more locations

said by elwoodblues:

There is no requirement in law to show any ID unless driving where upon request I must identify myself with a drivers license. If stopped by a police officer,I can volunteer the information, but again no law says I have to.

If they suspect that you've committed a crime, they can demand your ID even if you're walking down the street. Failure to provide ID can result in incarceration.
--
Tom


Hydraglass
Premium
join:2002-05-08
Kingston, ON
said by TLS2000:

said by elwoodblues:

There is no requirement in law to show any ID unless driving where upon request I must identify myself with a drivers license. If stopped by a police officer,I can volunteer the information, but again no law says I have to.

If they suspect that you've committed a crime, they can demand your ID even if you're walking down the street. Failure to provide ID can result in incarceration.

I don't believe they can demand a "government issued identification" - but they can demand you provide your correct identity -- different thing. You give them your name, address, phone number, and a reference who can verify your identity... now if they suspect you've committed a crime you're likely going "downtown" anyway -- and they will finger print you and attempt to verify the identification information you have provided.

If you lied - you'll get "providing false identification" charges thrown on top -- that doesn't mean "fake id" - it means you lied about your name or where you live or your date of birth or other details they have asked for to verify who you are. Some people get away with it - it's not too hard to get stopped for J-walking, and tell them you're Ron Smergman of 2319 West 1st Street, Victoria, BC - especially if you're in a small town in Manitoba... they'll write you a ticket and off you go... Poor Ron Smergman...


nitzguy
Premium
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON
reply to simon726
The scanners that bars/clubs should work....as new drivers licenses have no bar code on the back....so that "firmware update" you speak of should have happenned already.

I've seen the new ID card, we take it at the casino....its purple, has a notch out in the top right hand corner, some other features...it doesn't directly conform to the drivers license numbering system though.

So, its out there....we like it much MUCH better than the old BYID card which thankfully you can't get anymore....

You know what a fail piece of identification is though? ....the FAC/FAL.....talk about unsecure....


Kalford
Seems To Be An Rtfm Problem.
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-20
Ontario
kudos:1
reply to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:

said by Gone:

It is perfectly acceptable to accept an Ontario health card as photo ID.

While it's acceptable to accept it, one of the arguments made by people on CBC Radio was that it's not accepted at clubs and bars a

That's because (contrary to the assertions of some) it's not considered valid ID in Ontario.


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
just to clarify, i was never refused entry, i was allowed entry. the bouncer was so embarrased he no longer asks new patrons for their health card because of the letter i have shown him, he actually discussed with his supervisor and they no longer do that, i was going to show him my drivers licence, but i was not holding onto it, so i would have had to leave the lineup and back to the car to get it, but he let me in anyways. there you go, hope that clarifys everything.

secondly, the licence says valid photo id only,this is my expired licence, the ministry confirmed i can use it for valid photo identification, only my driving privledges were expired, not the id itself. they can not refuse you because your licence card is past the expiry date, that just means you cant drive, the ID is still valid to identify you, the ministry clerk confirmed this with me
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to TLS2000
said by TLS2000:

said by elwoodblues:

There is no requirement in law to show any ID unless driving where upon request I must identify myself with a drivers license. If stopped by a police officer,I can volunteer the information, but again no law says I have to.

If they suspect that you've committed a crime, they can demand your ID even if you're walking down the street. Failure to provide ID can result in incarceration.

I have a problem with that, its not of your GD business who I am.
If you suspect I've committed a crime, you better have evidence to arrest me, because frankly I'll sue the crap out of them afterwards.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to Hydraglass
Under the HTA, when riding a bicycle, it says all you have do is identify yourself correctly, but don't have to offer up any proof such as a drivers license.

MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to simon726
Don't remember the details, but couldn't you get a 'government' Age of Majority card with your photo on it? Proof that you were legal drinking age.


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
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join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
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·Rogers Hi-Speed
reply to Paolo
said by Paolo:

secondly, the licence says valid photo id only,this is my expired licence, the ministry confirmed i can use it for valid photo identification, only my driving privledges were expired, not the id itself. they can not refuse you because your licence card is past the expiry date, that just means you cant drive, the ID is still valid to identify you, the ministry clerk confirmed this with me

Again, any place requesting ID can refuse you entry for any reason at any time. The casino's in Ontario will not accept an expired drivers licence and will require you to show them the temp permit with it. Please don't try to tell me otherwise. This is what I do for a living.

As per the AGCO, ID must be current (not expired) or it is considered invalid. Now when you consider that the AGCO regulates EVERYTHING in Ontario that requires you to produce photo ID to prove your age, those are the guidelines that must be followed.

Proof: »www.agco.on.ca/pdfs/en/tip_sheets/3056.pdf
--
Tom


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
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join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
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reply to elwoodblues
Police can detain you for the purpose of obtaining your identity if they suspect a crime has been committed and have reasonable grounds to believe you may have participated.

They can also detain you while they investigate if they have reasonable grounds to believe that you have direct knowledge of the crime.

Also, they can demand your ID for the purpose of issuing a ticket. For instance, if you jaywalk they can certainly ask you for ID.
--
Tom


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
reply to TLS2000
TLS thanks but that arguement has NOTHING to do with my post. please stop bringing it up, its irrelivant. Refusal for valid ID vs refusal for ANY OTHER REASON is 2 different things here, weather you want to believe it or not. I have never stepped into a casino, and the one time i did, i was never carded, mind you i do not look like a 12 year old so they have no reason to ask me for id. not sure who the ARGO is, and what they do, but if they refuse someone because their driving privledges are "expired" but they can clearly tell the persons age based on the information on the card, all that tells me is they are simply being pricks. they have the information they just want to be a prick about it, but thats not the discussion for this thread, thats for another thread, cus i first have to find out who the AGCO (spelling?) is and what they do?
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!

simon726

join:2006-12-21
Ajax, ON
reply to MaynardKrebs
said by MaynardKrebs:

Don't remember the details, but couldn't you get a 'government' Age of Majority card with your photo on it? Proof that you were legal drinking age.

Well, there used to be an "Age of Majority" many years ago - like 20 years ago. However those were phased out in favour of the BYID cards issued by the LCBO.

It's "sole" purpose is to purchase alcohol in the province of Ontario. However the card is only valid for Ontario residents aged 19 and 35. After 35, you cannot apply for it.


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
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Mississauga, ON
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reply to Paolo
Listen man, claiming my argument is invalid because you're ignorant doesn't make me wrong.

"Valid photo card only" means it MUST be accompanied by the temp licence or it is invalid. Claiming otherwise is just spreading misinformation.

AGCO is the Alcohol and Gaming Commission of Ontario. They are the ones that regulate what ID is acceptable for a person to use in Ontario for the purposes of buying alcohol or tobacco, or claiming lottery or casino winnings.

They aren't refusing entry based on driving privileges being expired, they're refusing entry based on the FACT that an expired drivers licence is no longer valid ID in Ontario.

Again, ID can be refused for any reason whatsoever, solely at the discretion of the person asking for it.
--
Tom


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
i dont have a temp licence, i have no licence i cant provide a temp licence right now