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Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
reply to Immer

Re: [Raiding] Mogu'Shan Vaults

4/6 this week in our first real week. I'm good with that.

Post your Spiritbinder strats, because getting it at 2 seconds to Enrage makes me worry.



JB
Stay Gold
Premium
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

Same here, Spirit kings was sure easy.

Nick - what you might need to do is cut down the first couple of totems to only half the time, this will let you get the extra dps on the boss. Also, if you used 3 healers, try 2, it's pretty easy with endless mana. Also you can try to quit sending in people earlier and simply stack and zerg. Healing isn't THAT bad.



McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2

1 recommendation

We're still 0/6, but with only about 3 "real" attempts at Stone Guard...and those were with 2 dps and a healer in sub 450 ilvl gear.

We had two glaring issues when I compared the parse of our "best" attempt to a kill parse from a guild on our server that I consider comparable to us.

First was that our effective dps was far too low. We were just shy of 230k...on their kill(took 7m 20s), they were in the upper 270s(what I'd consider the lower limit). They had one dps whose effective dps was below 40k and their tanks were in the low to mid 30s. We had 2 dps right about 50k, one around 30, and the other two somewhere between 22-25k. One tank was ~35k dps, the other was closer to 15k.

I am blaming the dps on gear, 100%. The two dps that were at 50k were the best geared, and the two that had the lowest performance were the worst geared, nothing we can really do about that but get more gear. If we can't cut it damage wise then, we need to reassess people's roles in the group.

Second problem was taking way too much unnecessary damage. When I compared our damage taken to the other guild's, it was crazy how much more we took (relatively) than them. I mean, if I were to list all the players from both guilds(excluding tanks) in order from most damage taken to least, we would have had 3 of the top 5...their fight was 3 times longer than ours. We had a healer go down within a minute of pull due to Cobalt Mine, and about four guys that took ~300k damage from Jasper Chains. Some rough math done in my head said that we took about 20k dps over the course of the fight that could have been completely avoided.

So, after that long, rambling, adderall induced rant, here are my questions.

1. Would you consider ~280k eDPS the lower threshhold? That basically means 5 DPS average 45k and the 2 tanks average 27.5K. And, if 280k isn't the minimum, what is?

2. What strategy, if any were used to ensure avoidance of unnecessary damage, i.e. Mines, Chains? l2play and other similar replies aren't acceptable answers.

Help us out guys, at the moment we won't be able to muscle through this encounter. We'll have to win by dancing the dance and keeping mistakes to a minimum. Any and all positive advice is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
--
McBrain#1430

Name's Ash...Housewares.



JB
Stay Gold
Premium
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable

If you claim it's gearing, have people pitch in and craft epics. Run more Heroics. Also, if it's gearing then you really don't need to change anything? Nonetheless I'll add in some points...

The most obvious choice is to try 2 healers. If your tanks are geared and your raid is smart about not taking damage, this I think would be doable. Also though, this puts a lot of stress on the tanks not messing up and letting a large amount of explosion damage. Also, people can absolutely not get hit by the mines.

-Swap around group comp so there is more ranged (if possible), jasper chains sucks on melee.
-Double dot/cleave the 2 adds that are stacked up, they both lose the debuff.
-If you're using a healy priest swap him to atonement, free omnomnom dps and great heals.
-As a resto sham, keeping up searing and bicy on cooldown is more free dps.
-If you stay w/ 3 healers maybe have the tanks throw on a few pieces of DPS gear, as I don't remember healing the tanks to be all that difficult in 10m.

Good Luck.
--
I know you are the only one
A little taste of heaven
You know I am The only one
Your bitter taste of hell



Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
reply to JB

said by JB:

Same here, Spirit kings was sure easy.

Nick - what you might need to do is cut down the first couple of totems to only half the time, this will let you get the extra dps on the boss. Also, if you used 3 healers, try 2, it's pretty easy with endless mana. Also you can try to quit sending in people earlier and simply stack and zerg. Healing isn't THAT bad.

We did 2 heal it (even early on; our DPS has never been baller in the slightest). Our strat ended up being this:

There's a pair of A-Team DPS: they are the first two to go down. Order by preference and ability to kill adds. They stay down until the next totem spawns, keep add numbers down.

They go down 3 times in a row to stack their buff high. They're only up for enough time to get to the next totem.

4th time, another pair go down, and the A-Team DPSes boss like crazy. The A-team goes down again on the 5th totem, which lets them maintain the stack.

Healers rotate independent of which team goes down. I was comfortable with our healer management.

This system let our better add killers manage adds (a DK and spriest in this case), while our better single target DPS (read: the rogue) were able to stay up and just do a lot more damage to the boss instead of losing out to running around and target switching.

But it still feels like we don't have enough boss DPS. We had people stop going down around 30%.


JB
Stay Gold
Premium
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1

Sounds like you're doing most things right. The enrage timer is just really tight.


Threatco

join:2011-04-19
Moncton, NB
reply to McBrain

said by McBrain:

We're still 0/6, but with only about 3 "real" attempts at Stone Guard...and those were with 2 dps and a healer in sub 450 ilvl gear.

...

Help us out guys, at the moment we won't be able to muscle through this encounter. We'll have to win by dancing the dance and keeping mistakes to a minimum. Any and all positive advice is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Hi Mcbrain. We miss you

We got this boss down this weekend. Here are some tips for you.

1.) Cobalt mines, walk over them whenever cobalt add is petrifying, it only hits for ~15 k then and clears the floor.

2.) Everyone stay close to the boss. Jasper chains spawning far apart is worse then the whole group moving a few feet each cobalt mine.

3) You don't take hardly any damage from jasper chains when jasper add is petrifying.

4) When jade add is petrifying this is a time the healers can start regening mana, as raid damage should be nil.

(Assuming no amesyth)

I assume the over all damage taken on a wipe is going to be a bit higher because 2 or 3 unshielded explosions that are healed through will realy spike those numbers compared to a clean kill.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast

Thanks for the tips.

From last night's attempts, moving our group for every mine was too much of a dps loss. Mines come out too often for that. We did better with the mines by keeping our all-ranged dps spread out. Jasper chains is still an issue, but that will have to be addressed with more reps. The biggest problem is when we get 2 healers chained... movement interrupts heals... and that's no bueno.

Our last attempt was pretty good. If we can keep that going into tonight we should make some real progress. It was our first time as a complete raid group, so we can't be too hard on ourselves.
--
Guild leader of Pride and Ego
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Agrende (discipline/holy); Esclavizado (blood/unholy)

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.



Ginjer
Premium
join:2009-08-14
Honolulu, HI

said by Immer:

Thanks for the tips.

From last night's attempts, moving our group for every mine was too much of a dps loss. Mines come out too often for that. We did better with the mines by keeping our all-ranged dps spread out. Jasper chains is still an issue, but that will have to be addressed with more reps. The biggest problem is when we get 2 healers chained... movement interrupts heals... and that's no bueno.

Our last attempt was pretty good. If we can keep that going into tonight we should make some real progress. It was our first time as a complete raid group, so we can't be too hard on ourselves.

Patience is a virtue.
--
85 Pogasim (Pandaren Monk), 85 Sunlock (Dwarf Lock), 85 Shocktrio (Draeni Shaman)


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast

I'm working on it... /sheepishgrin

Looking beyond the current plateau (managing explosions and trap detonations), I'm worried that I may not be healing efficiently. Mana management will be tight for a 7 min fight... and I need to work in smarter Spirit Shells, Halo, the uptime on Rapture and Borrowed time need to be improved... need to give myself a gangnam style pep talk before tonight's raid, lol.
--
Guild leader of Pride and Ego
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Agrende (discipline/holy); Esclavizado (blood/unholy)

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.



Ginjer
Premium
join:2009-08-14
Honolulu, HI

said by Immer:

I'm working on it... /sheepishgrin

Looking beyond the current plateau (managing explosions and trap detonations), I'm worried that I may not be healing efficiently. Mana management will be tight for a 7 min fight... and I need to work in smarter Spirit Shells, Halo, the uptime on Rapture and Borrowed time need to be improved... need to give myself a gangnam style pep talk before tonight's raid, lol.

WOMP, WOMP, WOMP, WOMP....
--
85 Pogasim (Pandaren Monk), 85 Sunlock (Dwarf Lock), 85 Shocktrio (Draeni Shaman)


Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium
join:2010-08-24
Mexico
kudos:5

My input from last night:

* Need 3 healers at least for our first kill
* Healers need to put special attention to tank with 2 dogs
* Moving as a pack brings down the dps big time
* Tanks need to work on taunting rotations and communication, if tank that has 2 and one is petrifying leave it alone.
* I need to work on my tank gear, I felt squishy when having 2 dogs
* Most of the deaths I saw were by jasper chains
* We need a shaman/druid
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.



Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA

What're your tank classes Jobbie?



Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium
join:2010-08-24
Mexico
kudos:5

Last night main tanks were:

Frost as Blood DK
Tier as Protection Paladin

Healer/Offtank:
Jobbie Protection Paladin

When we tried to two heal it was Tier and myself then I switched to get a third healer and Frost switched to Blood.
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.



JB
Stay Gold
Premium
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1

Dual smushy pallies, yay! What's the heal comp? Holy Pally beacon on the 2x tank and then hots/small heals on the other tank should make it pretty easy.



Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium
join:2010-08-24
Mexico
kudos:5

said by JB:

Dual smushy pallies, yay! What's the heal comp? Holy Pally beacon on the 2x tank and then hots/small heals on the other tank should make it pretty easy.

Last night heal comp was Holy Pally x 2 and Disc Priest, one of the holy paladins is being replace with a shaman next week.
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.