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wabisuke

join:2007-01-23
Philippines
reply to Jobbie

Re: [MoP] Great Post - I couldn't agree more

said by Jobbie:

Both games have a lot of things right, but that is not the point of this thread.

True that, I want both games to succeed because it will only make the next iterations better. But apparently, people need to bash the other to somehow make their preferred game better. I never could understand that logic. Much like the iOS vs Android threads...


I AM
Premium
join:2010-04-11
Ephrata, PA
kudos:4
reply to Jobbie

/tar Jobbie
/lick
/dance
/laugh
/gkick



Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Ghastlyone

said by Ghastlyone:

said by Immer:

I'm going to start "hey modding" the GW2 posts.

LOL.

Yep. Can't compare anything to the holy grail that is WoW in this forum. Nothing else exists.

Because MMOs never get compared to one another, right?

Not this forum though. We'll tell on you to the mods!

A lot of assumptions in this post ^...

I'm not in the WoW forum to talk about some other game, nor does the topic of this thread really benefit from discussions of another game. That's what the more generic gaming forum is for.
--
Guild leader of Pride and Ego
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Agrende (discipline/holy); Esclavizado (blood/unholy)

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.

cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE
reply to clawfury

MEA CULPA, MEA FUCKING CULPA move on



Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5
reply to Immer

said by Immer:

said by Ghastlyone:

said by Immer:

I'm going to start "hey modding" the GW2 posts.

LOL.

Yep. Can't compare anything to the holy grail that is WoW in this forum. Nothing else exists.

Because MMOs never get compared to one another, right?

Not this forum though. We'll tell on you to the mods!

A lot of assumptions in this post ^...

I'm not in the WoW forum to talk about some other game, nor does the topic of this thread really benefit from discussions of another game. That's what the more generic gaming forum is for.

Strange thing is. I never said one thing about GW2 in this thread. I've been talking about WoW the whole time?


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast

said by Ghastlyone:

Strange thing is. I never said one thing about GW2 in this thread. I've been talking about WoW the whole time?

cool. but you saw it fit to belittle my somewhat blunt reminder that we don't need to be discussing some other game here... and made wild assumptions about my motives for doing so. Plus... I couldn't resist recycling one of your earlier comments. /hug


Ghastlyone
Premium
join:2009-01-07
Las Vegas, NV
kudos:5

1 recommendation

said by Immer:

said by Ghastlyone:

Strange thing is. I never said one thing about GW2 in this thread. I've been talking about WoW the whole time?

cool. but you saw it fit to belittle my somewhat blunt reminder that we don't need to be discussing some other game here... and made wild assumptions about my motives for doing so. Plus... I couldn't resist recycling one of your earlier comments. /hug

I love me some Immer.

You know I gotta come in here and raz you guys every once in awhile


Skittles
Premium
join:2011-03-31
reply to clawfury

few thoughts on this:

I agree with OP on the general feel of the game now being highly daily quest driven, given the feel that on days you dont or cant complete dailies that you "fall behind".

Blizzard really messed up the iLevels on JP gear but Ive mentioned this before in another thread, suffice it to say, JP gear should be the same ilevel as heroic dungeon gear.

Needing rep with different factions to be able to purchase VP is an odd choice on blizzard's part. It essentially takes the fuck up they made in Therazene for the shoulder chants and puts it on a grand scale, now making leveling alts for less attractive (and no I dont care that once you are revered it makes it double xp for the rest of your toons while grinding out that rep, you still have to grind it out on all toons).

The solution that makes the most sense, as noted by others, is that they need to allow us to grind rep with tabards as an option. Logging on each day to do anywhere from 5-25+ dalies leaves little time for anything else, especially for a casual player.

oh, and 90 of those little pieces from dalies to get a charm to better your chance at a roll is excessive. Unless I am misreading it I am of the understanding that charm is used for only a single reroll. If that is the case you can grind out enough dailies in a week for maybe two rolls if you do dailies every day....dunno maybe I have that part wrong.

As it stands now, I do cloud serpent dailies and GL dailies only right now....and it is boring as hell.....fucking revered with GL before I can do shado-pan...gg Blizz.



Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium
join:2010-08-24
Mexico
kudos:5

Maybe put the tabards as BOA at honored or even revered so we can send to alts.
--
Judge a man by the trials of his shield, not the empty reaping of his sword.



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

Heres what I think would be a good rep buff (better than the idea they suggested)

Make the tabards BoA and make them rep tabards (instead of purely achev tabards)

So once you hit exalted you could buy it and send to an alt and they could just dungeon grind rep.

This way you daily grind once then have an easy way after that.



Jobbie
Keep It Simple
Premium
join:2010-08-24
Mexico
kudos:5



Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
reply to Skittles

said by Skittles:

oh, and 90 of those little pieces from dalies to get a charm to better your chance at a roll is excessive. Unless I am misreading it I am of the understanding that charm is used for only a single reroll. If that is the case you can grind out enough dailies in a week for maybe two rolls if you do dailies every day....dunno maybe I have that part wrong.

You need 90 Lessers to turn in the weekly quest, but you get 3 Elder charms for that. Each roll takes 1 Elder Charm. So, 3 reroll tokens a week.

You can also only bank 10 Elder Charms. No limits on the Lessers sitting in your bags.

Doing cooking + GoLo dailies every day, I'm exceeding the 90 "cap". When I'm no longer doing dailies every day, I may struggle, but at that point I'll have a few weeks worth to turn in, and/or not care so much. For instance, I have the only pieces I'll need off Feng and Spirit Kings normal now. The value of Elder Charms decreases substantially as the tier wears on (as does the value of dailies).


Caelharrad

join:2012-04-13
Fenton, MO
reply to clawfury

I am confused by all these "have to..." phrases. "I have to do dailies." "I have to do this damn rep grind." "I have to do my profession dailies every day."
...
To paraphrase the great Inigo Montoya: "You keep using that phrase... I do not think it means, what you think it means." If you do not like dailies, DO NOT DO them. Unfortunately for some people, dailies are now the "gateway" to certain types of gear/content... but you still have a choice whether or not to do them.



Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA

The problem is they WANT to maximize their character's output/capability in their chosen role.

If they WANT to maximize their character, then they HAVE TO do dailies to accomplish this task.



Skittles
Premium
join:2011-03-31
reply to Nick D

ty Nick



Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Nick D

said by Nick D:

The problem is they WANT to maximize their character's output/capability in their chosen role.

If they WANT to maximize their character, then they HAVE TO do dailies to accomplish this task.

and there are no alternatives to improving gear to get into the first raid. If there were alternative routes, then I would be with Caelharrad on the "you don't have to... " bit (in fact, I've said it many times before). But this case is different. If you choose not to... then it not only affects your raiding, it affects your professions, it affects how much lore you get to experience... all of it.
--
Guild leader of Pride and Ego
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Agrende (discipline/holy); Esclavizado (blood/unholy)

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.


Ramikor

@comcastbusiness.net
reply to Ghastlyone

My response is somewhat based on ignorance, so please bear with me.

With respect to the dailies, whether they are "must do" depends on whether you can val cap without doing them. If you can, they are not "must do"; if you can't they are. I don't know because I honestly haven't looked. I'm doing them strictly for rep at this point, and prioritizing them based on what I want to get when.

If they are "must do" then I agree, it's ridiculous. While everyone will have to spend some amount of time to val cap, it should be possible to val cap if you're playing about an hour a day (i.e. running 1 heroic dun per day). If they are not "must do" then the valor given for them is sugar on top of the rep that you need to get access to whatever the rep vendor is selling -- i.e maybe saving you a dun run while you're grinding rep. I don't have a problem with having to grind rep to get access to a sweet item, except that I've always felt rep based items should be BoA rather BoP so you don't have to grind the rep again for each alt.

The big problem comes if the val you get from them is not subject to the val cap. Then all of a sudden, it becomes "must do" to the hardcore types instead of a bonus.



xenograffiti

@unt.edu
reply to clawfury



All I see is another QQ post.

Why are you playing WoW if you don't like questing and grinding? This game has been about killing moar boars and jumping through the same NPC's hoops over & over since it came out.



Bahamut X
Premium
join:2000-12-09
Fort Worth, TX
reply to Nick D

said by Nick D:

No limits on the Lessers sitting in your bags.

And fortunatly,they stack in lots of 180...

Once I hit two stacks... I decided it was time for a break.. and level another toon.

Now if only I didn't need 50 Ironpaw tokens... Go Schoolbell!
--
I work at T-Mobile. I play games and enjoy time off of work. I've been a member here longer than I've worked there. I have my own opinions, they do not hold anything to T-Mobile USA, etc etc etc...


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Ramikor

said by Ramikor :

My response is somewhat based on ignorance, so please bear with me.

With respect to the dailies, whether they are "must do" depends on whether you can val cap without doing them. If you can, they are not "must do"; if you can't they are. I don't know because I honestly haven't looked. I'm doing them strictly for rep at this point, and prioritizing them based on what I want to get when.

You need to grind out the rep with the factions just to spend the Valor you've earned. That puts it squarely into the "must do" category.
--
Guild leader of Pride and Ego
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Agrende (discipline/holy); Esclavizado (blood/unholy)

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to xenograffiti

said by xenograffiti :



All I see is another QQ post.

Why are you playing WoW if you don't like questing and grinding? This game has been about killing moar boars and jumping through the same NPC's hoops over & over since it came out.

careful... gross oversimplification nullifies all points, not just the one you are countering.
--
Guild leader of Pride and Ego
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Agrende (discipline/holy); Esclavizado (blood/unholy)

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.


Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
reply to Immer

To be fair, I think a lot of this is exacerbated by 2 things:

1. Heroic Gear is 2 full tiers below Normal Modes. Traditionally, the first tier is only 1 tier above heroics. In future raids, you're jumping in with a tier and a half below if you only did normals previously, but you'd have better gear in the form of gems and set bonuses.

2. Normal Mode is designed with LFR gear in mind. LFR has had 3 bosses out for 1 week. The gating is actually nice for non-raiders, and even allowing for the more capable raiders to distinguish themselves, but for people on the cusp, it is frustrating.

Like, VP wasn't the gearing path before. It always took 2.2 weeks to get a chest piece, for instance, and that won't make or break your toon for raiding progress. It's not like before where you'll never get a piece in that slot, or your tier bonuses, without VP.

And there is an alternative path for VP gear: getting loot to drop. So, dailies ARE optional, if you do not take into account optimality. (optimalness? the condition of being optimal)

And really, I still think there is far too much emphasis placed at the average raider level on gear, and stuff like optimal gemming and reforging. It's certainly a red flag when someone just fucks off with the doing the right thing in terms of gear and reforging, and gear matters to a point, but its not black and white. Non-optimal does not mean useless. And skill cap issues are going to decide performance far more often than gear choice. (Note: I may change my mind on this after Elegon. Haven't pulled him yet, but I hear "ow" is the right word there)

So, I both understand the concern and understand what Blizzard is doing.

I'm not bothered by dailies. They give me something to do. I just wish I could do them in the order I decide. And I happen to like the farming model, because right now I'm choosing to go for Master (or whatever maxing all the cooking things is). Others are cooking their individual food, and still others are just farming motes (which, btw, should tank Golden Lotus prices).

Small gripe: who the hell names a faction and an herb (pronounced "erb" because I'm 'murican) the same thing? I get so confused sometimes.

"Hey what're you doing?"
"Golden Lotus"
"can i join you?"
"noooo mah herbs" (pronounced "herbs" because there's a fucking H in it)



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Immer

said by Immer:

said by Ramikor :

My response is somewhat based on ignorance, so please bear with me.

With respect to the dailies, whether they are "must do" depends on whether you can val cap without doing them. If you can, they are not "must do"; if you can't they are. I don't know because I honestly haven't looked. I'm doing them strictly for rep at this point, and prioritizing them based on what I want to get when.

You need to grind out the rep with the factions just to spend the Valor you've earned. That puts it squarely into the "must do" category.

Exactly

Sure you could have gotten to 3k valor by now without doing dailies but you wouldn't be able to spend any if you hadn't done dailies.

From this week I've found you can cap valor just from dailies (I got to 500 in 3 days of just Tillers/GL/Klaxxi

If I had done anglers and Cloud then I'd have been even closer to cap.


Phantasee

join:2009-08-27
Hammond, LA
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to clawfury

When you start to think like this when playing a game, like it's a job, it's time for a new genre or game, perhaps. Sounds like they need a break or a new hobby. His rant reminds me of the people that stand in SW/Org and bash the very game they are playing relentlessly.

MMO's will be MMO's. You NEED time to get anywhere. If you don't have that time, you should be playing a different genre IMO.



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Nick D

IMO there are three groups as dailies go.

1. True hard core raiders, they will do everything to max their gear so they can get server firsts. (they would be doing dailies) (gotta cap VP every week and get gear any place they can)

2. Simi-hardcore, They have a good group but aren't worried about server firsts so they'll not be quite as maxed as the hard core, so for them dailies are optional. (not overly worried about VP)

3. casual, they'll raid when they can and in the mean time do dailies, so they'll get the VP and crafted gear. (Raid drops are a happy surprise)

ok this is over simplified but...



Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Phantasee

said by Phantasee:

like it's a job, it's time for a new genre or game, perhaps. Sounds like they need a break or a new hobby. His rant reminds me of the people that stand in SW/Org and bash the very game they are playing relentlessly.

I agree... its part of my disdain for trade trolls. They log on, spend HOURS berating people and the game... for what?

The OP is just venting frustration... and he has a lot of valid points. This might go away within the next few patches... and all will be right in Azeroth again.

I still love this game.

said by Nick D:

dailies ARE optional, if you do not take into account optimality. (optimalness? the condition of being optimal)

optimization.
--
Guild leader of Pride and Ego
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Agrende (discipline/holy); Esclavizado (blood/unholy)

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.


Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA

said by Immer:

said by Nick D:

dailies ARE optional, if you do not take into account optimality. (optimalness? the condition of being optimal)

optimization.

That's the process. What's the condition? Maybe it's just 'being optimized'.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8

hmm... Optimum?

dailies ARE optional, if you can accept not being optimum.



McBrain
BRB Face Melting

join:2010-05-06
Kalimdor
kudos:2

Here's an idea, increase the VP rewarded from completing dailies to ~10 or so. Reweard reputation for completing daily quests. When friendly is reached, each faction gives you the option to turn in VP for X amount of reputation per point. Once you reach revered with a faction, you receive the original amount of vp per quest (5), but rep is earned at a double rate much like is suggersted for 5.1.

This will give players two options they dont currently have: 1. Earn reputation fast, 2. earn VP fast.

Only issue would be the game preventing you from spending vp earned from one faaction at another one.
--
McBrain#1430

Name's Ash...Housewares.



Ramikor

@comcastbusiness.net
reply to Immer

said by Immer:

You need to grind out the rep with the factions just to spend the Valor you've earned. That puts it squarely into the "must do" category.

Yes, but like the firelands dailies you only have to do it until you get the rep you need to get the gear you want from that faction. I know that before you didn't have to spend valor to get faction gear, and that Cata had the rep tabards as an alternative to rep grinding, but I don't have a problem with having to grind rep for a faction rewards. Faction rewards should be earned. I felt that the tabards should only get you so far, but there probably is not a good or easy mechanic for that. In any case, the additional val you get for grinding rep that you were going to grind anyway to get the bis gear is a bonus. The current system just means instead of buying valor gear that you later replace with rep gear that you pay gold for, you grind rep and spend the valor on the rep gear.

To the extent the argument is that the valor vendors in the capital cities are not carrying new gear at all, where before they carried gear of comparable, but lesser quality than faction reward gear, I do have some sympathy. However, I think the max-min types would be grinding the rep to get the bis faction reward gear (and still complain about it), and so would be doing the dailies or other rep-builders until they had the necessary rep anyway. The lack of valor gear through the old valor vendors hurts the casuals who otherwise would not be grinding rep for bis gear, but who would be settling for the comparable gear. However, the alternative for them is crafted gear. Unfortunately epic crafted gear will be even more expensive to buy than in the past because many mats are BoP. However, the fact that there is an alternative takes it out of the "must" category.

Also, (more ignorance on my part) what ilvl is required for the raids? If you have to have valor gear to make the ilvl for a raid, that turns valor grinding into a "must do"; but if you can get in with blue crafted and/or heroic dun gear, then you don't have to grind valor at all, let alone grind rep to spend the valor.

I will als concede that having to grind rep with one faction before you can grind rep with another faction IS retarded. Everyone should be able to grind rep with whatever faction he thinks will benefit him most in whatever order suits his priorities.