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HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to Oxygen

Re: Heavy Iron - Dual Cisco 7613 Routers w/ RSP720-3C-10GE

said by Oxygen:

Each one was $345,371.00 + freight shipping.

That WITH or WITHOUT Smartnet?

said by Oxygen:

What I would really be interested in seeing is how a pair of these would perform against a Juniper router, or even a better a home made machine running some form of Linux FW/Routing software.

Vyatta would tell you "Yes" to this question.

A "5x9s" guy would probably give you the "you want to build this router with WHAT?!" look.

Can you even get DWDM, et al connectors in a PCIe formfactor that fit into a 1u chassis? Never bothered to check.

Regards


TomS_
Git-r-done
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-19
London, UK
kudos:5

I shouldnt imagine this would be too difficult.

i.e. you can buy XFPs that are tuneable (either on the fly by the device they are installed in, or using some sort of programming device), so as long as you can get a NIC that takes an XFP, you can run what ever C band wavelength you want out of it.

»www.jdsu.com/en-us/Optical-Commu···ach.aspx


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS

They make XFP nics, but they are rare and costly. Not as costly as this piece of equipment, but still costly. You also have to worry then about things like driver compatibility and XFP compatibility, and your out of luck if you need more than 4 interfaces (single port only per card).



battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to sk1939

The description makes it sound like it's for some type of IXC.


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS

I would have thought they'd use Juniper or a CRS if that were the case imo.

It dosen't look to be very populated for a 13 slot chassis (they do make a 7606 and 7609). The 7609 (720Gbps) also has double the throughput capacity of the 7613 (256Gbps) (at least according to Cisco). This is just semantics and curiosity though, they bought what they bought after all.



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

Maybe they've had slimier experience with juniper as I have. (IE most buggy POS ever, firmware gets corrupt every couple months is seems, and somehow a single device that couldn't be looping back causes a juniper to go into broadcast storm.)

There seem to be some clear design flaws in how juniper devices work.



TomS_
Git-r-done
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-19
London, UK
kudos:5

1 recommendation

said by DarkLogix:

There seem to be some clear design flaws in how juniper devices work.

Thats a very broad and generalised statement to make. Juniper is used extensively in SP networks all over the globe, and low and behold the Internet is not melting into a puddle on the floor.

Perhaps you had a bad experience with a piece of kit, but you cant tar all Juniper devices with the same brush.

Ive seen Juniper devices running for years without a single issue. Ive also seen Cisco devices do the same. Funny that...

Juniper is not perfect, and neither is Cisco, or any manufacturer for that matter. They all experience issues and bugs. Regression testing of new firmware versions before pushing to production and proper environments for housing equipment will go far in ensuring you have a stable and reliable network.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to sk1939

said by sk1939:

I would have thought they'd use Juniper or a CRS if that were the case imo.

crs are in a niche market -- and they are generally used for a lot of the heavy core switching.
most of your edge/peering is still done with 6500/7600, asr1k, asr9k, or even the 12k (rare -- as these are slowly being phased out of production).
in the juniper world -- you're looking at an mx-box -- like the 80, 240, 480, or 960.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."

sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS

said by tubbynet:

said by sk1939:

I would have thought they'd use Juniper or a CRS if that were the case imo.

crs are in a niche market -- and they are generally used for a lot of the heavy core switching.
most of your edge/peering is still done with 6500/7600, asr1k, asr9k, or even the 12k (rare -- as these are slowly being phased out of production).
in the juniper world -- you're looking at an mx-box -- like the 80, 240, 480, or 960.

q.

Good to know, thanks tubby. I haven't dealt with much beyond 39XX series devices as far as WAN goes as most of what I find myself dealing with is LAN/Nexus. Do you know what Cisco is going to replace the 12k with? Also, why would they choose the 13 slot chassis over the 9 slot, especially since it's not populated anywhere near capacity in the photos.


GrumpyJohn

@windstream.net
reply to Oxygen

i Work for a big telco and we use all three ,cisco,juniper,and Fujitsu.Gov makes sure you purchase from all three so there is not one going out of business.They all work really well and interface with each other well in all diverse rings.


HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to sk1939

said by sk1939:

said by tubbynet:

said by sk1939:

I would have thought they'd use Juniper or a CRS if that were the case imo.

crs are in a niche market -- and they are generally used for a lot of the heavy core switching.
most of your edge/peering is still done with 6500/7600, asr1k, asr9k, or even the 12k (rare -- as these are slowly being phased out of production).
in the juniper world -- you're looking at an mx-box -- like the 80, 240, 480, or 960.

q.

Good to know, thanks tubby. I haven't dealt with much beyond 39XX series devices as far as WAN goes as most of what I find myself dealing with is LAN/Nexus. Do you know what Cisco is going to replace the 12k with? Also, why would they choose the 13 slot chassis over the 9 slot, especially since it's not populated anywhere near capacity in the photos.

Same here. I thought the ASR9K and CRS took over from the 12K series, or am I thinking wrong?


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1

yes.
the 12k is slowly dying -- phased out with the asr9k mostly. the shops that used the 12k at the core couldnt really afford the crs anyway ;-P.
the 12k is a finicky beast with different engine-series linecards and route-processors. i dont claim to know any of it -- but it was the first truly distributed forwarding platform -- and if you worked in the limitations -- it moved packets well.

not sure on the 7613 choice. with the rsp720 -- you get full throughput to the slots as you would in 9 slot.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."



yaplej
Premium
join:2001-02-10
White City, OR
reply to Oxygen

Is the rsp720 anything like the sup720? If so when used in the 13 slot chassis a few of the slots only have a single fabric connection so only 20Gbps not the full 40Gbps. With the sup2T that's increased to a full 80Gbps for all slots but I haven't seen anything on the rsp2T.

Anyone else find it odd that they list the slot bandwidth in half-duplex rather than the full-duplex speed? Seems like the marketing guys would be all over listing 40Gbps for single fabric slots 80Gbps for dual fabric and 160Gbps for sup2T equipped chassis.
--
sk_buff what?

Open Source Network Accelerators
»www.trafficsqueezer.org
»www.opennop.org


sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

said by yaplej:

Is the rsp720 anything like the sup720? If so when used in the 13 slot chassis a few of the slots only have a single fabric connection so only 20Gbps not the full 40Gbps. With the sup2T that's increased to a full 80Gbps for all slots but I haven't seen anything on the rsp2T.

I would think so give the chassis similarity if nothing else, however the 76XX's don't have an "E" chassis. They can use the Cat6k Sup 720 engine though. Cisco's spec sheets are conflicting about throughput though.

said by yaplej:

Anyone else find it odd that they list the slot bandwidth in half-duplex rather than the full-duplex speed? Seems like the marketing guys would be all over listing 40Gbps for single fabric slots 80Gbps for dual fabric and 160Gbps for sup2T equipped chassis.

Depending on the vendor I've seen it marketed that way. I've also seen the 3560G listed as layer 2 only, but I digress.


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to yaplej

said by yaplej:

Is the rsp720 anything like the sup720?

its a sup720 with msfc4 (rather than msfc3 in sup720). sup720 is supported in 7600 -- but rsp720 is supported only in c7600 chassis.

but I haven't seen anything on the rsp2T.

because it doesn't exist.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to sk1939

said by sk1939:

I would think so give the chassis similarity if nothing else, however the 76XX's don't have an "E" chassis.

the 7600 have the -s chassis. it doesn't provide the same upgrade as the -e chassis does in c6k (as its a router, not a switch with a router bolted on).

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."

sk1939
Premium
join:2010-10-23
Mclean, VA
kudos:10
reply to tubbynet

In other words you have a router that can act like a switch, or a switch that can act like a router?



tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1

said by sk1939:

In other words you have a router that can act like a switch, or a switch that can act like a router?

yes.
the c6k/c7k bu used to be one in the same.
they split several years back. thats why the c6k runs the 12.2sx train, while the c7k runs the 12.2sr train. they are mostly the same, except for where they aren't ;-P

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


Oxygen
Times Square can't shine as bright
Premium
join:2001-12-04
Nesconset, NY
reply to Oxygen

Interesting discussion! As mentioned, I am not much into the SP market but interesting information.

These are destined for a school district.



Oxygen
Times Square can't shine as bright
Premium
join:2001-12-04
Nesconset, NY
reply to HELLFIRE

said by HELLFIRE:

said by Oxygen:

Each one was $345,371.00 + freight shipping.

That WITH or WITHOUT Smartnet?

This was without Smartnet.


yaplej
Premium
join:2001-02-10
White City, OR
reply to Oxygen

Nice devices for sure. What prevented Cisco from pushing you to the ASR9K or beastly CRS?



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Oxygen

said by Oxygen:

said by HELLFIRE:

said by Oxygen:

Each one was $345,371.00 + freight shipping.

That WITH or WITHOUT Smartnet?

This was without Smartnet.

Blasphemy
go get some Smartnet.


Oxygen
Times Square can't shine as bright
Premium
join:2001-12-04
Nesconset, NY
reply to yaplej

said by yaplej:

Nice devices for sure. What prevented Cisco from pushing you to the ASR9K or beastly CRS?

It was kind of a "order us this and configure it exactly like this, we don't want to hear what you have to say" situation...


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to yaplej

said by yaplej:

Nice devices for sure. What prevented Cisco from pushing you to the ASR9K or beastly CRS?

you're not going to push crs (huge sp core router) especially with the pricetag -- when a customer is pushing c7k. asr9k is the natural progression -- but given the overall need -- there's no huge benefit in going to the asr9k -- especially with the required spend.

for what is occurring here -- the c6k with sup2t would have also been appropriate -- and cheaper -- but it is what it is.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1
reply to DarkLogix

said by DarkLogix:

Blasphemy
go get some Smartnet.

in certain instances -- sparing can be a cheaper (and quicker) way to solve issues -- especially if you have similar kit sitting in the lab.
smartnet is great -- but its not a panacea.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

It'll give access to IOS downloads and cisco support.


HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18
reply to tubbynet

Couple hundred K chassis / linecard, and no smartnet... I'm more worried when
something borks out and you find out your warrant service has just ended...

Whichever Beancounter authorized that needs a round of Network Battleship done
on their PC AND homedirectory.

Regards



tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1

it happens quite often.
for $enterprise that has a lot of same kit -- license strategic chassis, then hot spare the rest. linecards in 7600 and 6500 are covered under chassis license -- except for sip/spa combos. as such, if a linecard goes tits up, you swap it out with a hot spare and handle the smartnet later in the lab. if a chassis borks -- smartnet wont help you bring back the network and you build redundancy into it. you either make sure its spared, or you have licensed this as a strategic chassis.

it happens more than one would think. enterprises with tens of thousands of devices often look at hot sparing seriously once they look at average smartnet cost-to-utilization ratios. cisco services account managers (now they are called client services executives or some other such nonsense) often place a combination of smartnet services as well as sparing on the table to bring the cost where $enterprise will find it acceptable.
having sat in and added logistical information to said meetings -- they are fun to watch and be a part of.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."


HELLFIRE
Premium
join:2009-11-25
kudos:18

Client I deal with gets a pretty sweet deal globally, they buy it from whoever, wherever, and is backdated
with Cisco for support. All the client cares is EVERYTHING is 24x7x4 support, and if we say it isn't (especially
if the documentation says 8x5xNBD), well... they have our boss, the boss' boss, and the boss' boss' boss on
speed dial... calls like that especially suck at 0200 in the morning.

Regards



tubbynet
reminds me of the danse russe
Premium,MVM
join:2008-01-16
Chandler, AZ
kudos:1

said by HELLFIRE:

Client I deal with gets a pretty sweet deal globally, they buy it from whoever, wherever, and is backdated
with Cisco for support. All the client cares is EVERYTHING is 24x7x4 support, and if we say it isn't (especially
if the documentation says 8x5xNBD), well... they have our boss, the boss' boss, and the boss' boss' boss on
speed dial... calls like that especially suck at 0200 in the morning.

Regards

i am the principal/cse on a similar account.
customer buys the equivalent of about $30mil/year list price (they don't pay list -- but if they did -- it would total roughly that much) in hardware and support with an additional $2-3million in professional services from us.
they tier out their kit based on business need. core and critical infrastructure is 24x7x365. it goes down from there to 8x5xnbd. in those cases -- they hot spare on no support to resolve the issue. each site has a cache -- and large stocks are geographically spaced so there is no more than about 2-3 hours drive time between.

its all about cost and logistics from within the enterprise.

q.
--
"...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..."