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MajorPewPew

join:2010-09-19

[Serious] War of 1812 Commercials??

Hmm... Saw this on TV today, was seriously wondering why all of a sudden the government decided that Canada participated in the war of 1812.

The Fight for Canada - War of 1812 (200th Anniversary) Advertisement (HD)

Doesn't really match up with what I was taught in school in a couple of aspects.
1. Canada was 1867, war of 1812 was well before Canada was formed. So to say that the United States invaded "our territory" is a bit of a stretch at best. As it was considered to be British territory.
2. "Canadians" in the video were Redcoats (British)? lol...
3. Laura Secord warned British commander James FitzGibbon, Issac Brock seems a little out of place?

Seems like the government is trying to round Canada's age to 200 for kicks lol... Thoughts?
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BonezX
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could be much worse, they could deny it even happened.

Expand your moderator at work

Grappler

join:2002-09-01
Ottawa, ON
reply to MajorPewPew

Re: [Serious] War of 1812 Commercials??

This is actually pretty mild as far as a 'faux pas' goes. Heritage Canada does however need some new researchers or proof readers.

Three years ago there was a "Know Canada Quiz" whereby it was then demonstrated how little we know about our own country. Lowell Green used those results to conduct his own quiz and he was only able to find a couple of people that could pass his quiz, I was one of them .

However, I did bring to his attention that some of the problem lies at the top with our own government, especially Heritage Canada for publishing bad or historically inaccurate information. There is still one commercial floating around by this department and I am sure a lot of you have seen it, I am also sure it offends our friends south of the border: "Battle for the Plains of Abraham" whereby the 'American' General James Wolfe defeated the French General Montcalm. Cute seeing that Wolfe was British and there was no U.S.A. at that time.


HoboJ

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reply to MajorPewPew

Technically and truthfully they're right. It was called Canada in 1812, albeit split into two distinct parts upper and lower. Hell it was officially called that from 1791 to 1841 after which it became the Province of Canada before becoming the Dominion of Canada in 1867. So I don't know why you're up in arms over this. Perhaps you should learn your history before you go telling others to learn history.


PX Eliezer7
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reply to MajorPewPew

said by MajorPewPew:

Canada was 1867, war of 1812 was well before Canada was formed. So to say that the United States invaded "our territory" is a bit of a stretch at best. As it was considered to be British territory.

Before the US Constitution, there were the Articles of Confederation (written 1777, ratified 1781). This is not to be confused with the southern confederacy---that was much later.

And the Articles of Confederation do refer to Canada, with an invitation:

Canada acceding to this confederation, and adjoining in the measures of the United States, shall be admitted into, and entitled to all the advantages of this Union; but no other colony shall be admitted into the same, unless such admission be agreed to by nine States.

»www.constitution.org/cons/usa-conf.htm

My point is it was pretty well understood by 1812 what Canada was, at least in terms of what we would call Ontario and Quebec today.

The Articles of Confederation were superseded by the Constitution, so that particular invitation may no longer be valid. But you never know....


Thane_Bitter
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reply to BonezX

said by BonezX:

could be much worse, they could deny it even happened.

Bataille des Plaines d'Abraham ? Never heard of it.
--
It's an ad, you can't expect a 30 second time slot to effectively inform the public of the entire history and events of that war. I was surprised to see that CBC hasn't done any program about the war, must have gone over budget on that mini-bio for Don Cherry.

MichelR

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said by Thane_Bitter:

said by BonezX:

could be much worse, they could deny it even happened.

Bataille des Plaines d'Abraham ? Never heard of it.

Well, they kind of tried, if I remember correctly.


Thane_Bitter
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They caved to special interest groups.



shaner
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Calgary, AB
reply to MajorPewPew

Yes, the Brits were the commanding force in The Canadas at the time. However, it is very important to note that a lot of the action against US troops was done by Canadian militia units. Yes, the larger battles were fought by British regulars, but it does need to be emphasized that these militia units were comprised of people who lived in The Canadas before the war and stayed after. Meaning they were Canadians. This is an important distinction that these commercials are trying to highlight.

Not to mention the UEL folks who did call Canada home.
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»shaner38.blogspot.com/


PX Eliezer7
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Shaner, I found this commentary on Canadian militia during the war to be of interest:

The War of 1812 is a heavily mythologized event in the collective historical conscience of Canadians. There are numerous legends surrounding the War of 1812, and each year thousands of school children learn the stories of General Isaac Brock, his tragic death and the valiant defence of Upper Canada by Canadian militia. This interpretation has given rise to the Canadian “militia myth,” the idea that much of the credit for the defence of Canada in the War of 1812 can be attributed to the actions of Canadian soldiers. Historically, the sedentary militia in Upper Canada during the War of 1812 played an integral but often misunderstood part in the defence of Canada, given the limited role they were assigned during the war....

»stevendbennett.wordpress.com/ess···of-1812/

I'd be interested in your thoughts on the extended essay.
Expand your moderator at work

MajorPewPew

join:2010-09-19
reply to HoboJ

Re: [Serious] War of 1812 Commercials??

Personally, there is a huge difference between Canada as a colony of the British Empire vs Canada as a nation. My old history teacher always taught us that the modern day Sovereign Nation of Canada didn't exist until post WWI.
It seems to me that Heritage Canada is trying to pass off colonial history as something more, which I personally don't agree with.
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TLS2000
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said by MajorPewPew:

Personally, there is a huge difference between Canada as a colony of the British Empire vs Canada as a nation. My old history teacher always taught us that the modern day Sovereign Nation of Canada didn't exist until post WWI.
It seems to me that Heritage Canada is trying to pass off colonial history as something more, which I personally don't agree with.

So you're saying that even though the events took place here with the ancestors of many Canadians participating in it, it isn't part of Canada's history?

edit: I forgot to include: the outcome of that war is what ultimately allowed Canada to become the nation that it is today.

PX Eliezer7
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reply to MajorPewPew

said by MajorPewPew:

My old history teacher always taught us that the modern day Sovereign Nation of Canada didn't exist until post WWI.

I am sure that he was a fine fellow but that's his opinion.

--------------------------

So when did Canada begin in your view:

a) Confederation 1867.

b) Battle of Vimy Ridge 1917.

c) Statute of Westminster 1931.

d) Declaration of war (WW II) 1939, which Canada specifically did separately from the UK to make a point.

e) First Canadian-born Governor General of Canada 1952.

f) Canadian flag 1965.

g) Control of its own Constitution 1982.

My country was born by a Revolution, yours was born by an Evolution.


BGB
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reply to Thane_Bitter

said by Thane_Bitter:

said by BonezX:

could be much worse, they could deny it even happened.

I was surprised to see that CBC hasn't done any program about the war, must have gone over budget on that mini-bio for Don Cherry.

I actually saw one last night on CBC Newsworld.

»www.cbc.ca/doczone/episode/the-w···hat.html

MajorPewPew

join:2010-09-19
reply to PX Eliezer7

said by PX Eliezer7:

So when did Canada begin in your view:

a) Confederation 1867.

b) Battle of Vimy Ridge 1917.

c) Statute of Westminster 1931.

d) Declaration of war (WW II) 1939, which Canada specifically did separately from the UK to make a point.

e) First Canadian-born Governor General of Canada 1952.

f) Canadian flag 1965.

g) Control of its own Constitution 1982.

My country was born by a Revolution, yours was born by an Evolution.

Personally, I agree with my old history teacher. So C would be my opinion.

Also, to TLS2000, I believe it to be colonial history as a subject to the British Empire, not that of Canada's own. Gotta draw the line somewhere, otherwise you can argue that ancestral European history as a part of Canadian history. But thats just my opinion.
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shaner
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I think Canadian history starts with the actions of Europeans in what eventually became Canada. Meaning, we don't get to pick and choose what pre-Vimy Ridge event is Canadian or not. If Voyageurs and the Metis and the Yukon gold rush and the Plains of Abraham and the Battle of Louisbourg are all part of the history of Canada, then so is the war of 1812 and the Canadian militias who fought in it.



TLS2000
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reply to MajorPewPew

said by MajorPewPew:

Also, to TLS2000, I believe it to be colonial history as a subject to the British Empire, not that of Canada's own. Gotta draw the line somewhere, otherwise you can argue that ancestral European history as a part of Canadian history. But thats just my opinion.

Believe what you want, but it's my opinion that it happened here, which makes it part of our history. Vikings landing in Newfoundland is a part of Canada's history. The tribes that crossed over the land bridge and came to Canada are part of Canada's history. In my opinion, the line is geographical.
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MajorPewPew

join:2010-09-19

said by TLS2000:

said by MajorPewPew:

Also, to TLS2000, I believe it to be colonial history as a subject to the British Empire, not that of Canada's own. Gotta draw the line somewhere, otherwise you can argue that ancestral European history as a part of Canadian history. But thats just my opinion.

Believe what you want, but it's my opinion that it happened here, which makes it part of our history. Vikings landing in Newfoundland is a part of Canada's history. The tribes that crossed over the land bridge and came to Canada are part of Canada's history. In my opinion, the line is geographical.

Well sir, to each his own. It is a free country after all.
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dirtyjeffer
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reply to Thane_Bitter

said by Thane_Bitter:

I was surprised to see that CBC hasn't done any program about the war, must have gone over budget on that mini-bio for Don Cherry.

hehehe...nah, i think their budget issues may be more due to the millions they lose on their free music service.

»www.torontosun.com/2012/10/12/cb···yer-cash
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Thane_Bitter
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reply to BGB

That by far was one of the most stupid productions they have ever done.



J E F F
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reply to PX Eliezer7

Interesting..basically that mean if Canada wanted to join the United States, it's entirely up to Canada only, the rest would be just paperwork.
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Gone
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said by J E F F:

Interesting..basically that mean if Canada wanted to join the United States, it's entirely up to Canada only, the rest would be just paperwork.

Under the Articles of Confederation, yes. The Constitution replaced the Articles, and the provision for Canada to join didn't make it in there, so it would still require all sorts of approval from both countries to happen.


BGB
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reply to Thane_Bitter

said by Thane_Bitter:

That by far was one of the most stupid productions they have ever done.

I didn't say it was a quality documentary, I just said they made one

MaynardKrebs
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said by PX Eliezer7:

The Articles of Confederation were superseded by the Constitution, so that particular invitation may no longer be valid. But you never know....

You never know.....we just may invite some of you to join us.


Gone
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That map is nearly four years out of date.


PX Eliezer7
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reply to J E F F

said by J E F F:

Interesting..basically that mean if Canada wanted to join the United States, it's entirely up to Canada only, the rest would be just paperwork.

Shhh, don't tell Harper.

Bob4
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1 edit
reply to Gone

said by Gone:

said by J E F F:

Interesting..basically that mean if Canada wanted to join the United States, it's entirely up to Canada only, the rest would be just paperwork.

Under the Articles of Confederation, yes. The Constitution replaced the Articles, and the provision for Canada to join didn't make it in there, so it would still require all sorts of approval from both countries to happen.

Actually, it's pretty simple on our side: It just requires a simple majority vote by both houses of Congress and signature by the President. Done. No approval of any state or court or government agency is required.

Maybe some day we'll take Quebec.

[EDIT to say the President has to sign the bill.]


Gone
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said by Bob4:

Maybe some day we'll take Quebec.

You can have it. We've already managed to dump Celine Dion off on you, after all.