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Cartel
Premium
join:2006-09-13
Chilliwack, BC
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·Shaw
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2 recommendations

[WIN7] Computer feels sluggish after KB2731847 & KB2724197

My computer feels sluggish after KB2731847 & KB2724197 Oct. updates.
I did a re-image of my drive to before the updates and it is back to normal.
I installed all the updates except KB2731847 & KB2724197 and it's still ok but now I'm afraid to install the last 2 because it will slow down my computer.

What do I do?



Cudni
La Merma - Vigilado
Premium,MVM
join:2003-12-20
Someshire
kudos:13

sluggish how? what security software is in use?

Cudni



trparky
Apple... YUM
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

I seem to be having the same issue, I uninstalled these updates and I hid them in Windows Update and some random slow down issues went away.


Aranarth

join:2011-11-04
Stanwood, MI
reply to Cartel

I would google it and see if anyone else reported the issue and if they did if found a solution.



trparky
Apple... YUM
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join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

1 recommendation

I've Googled it myself, no such solutions for the issue regarding these two updates. That is, other than uninstalling them.

Since I've uninstalled them, my system is far more stable and responsive.



Cartel
Premium
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Chilliwack, BC
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·Shaw
·TELUS

1 edit

said by trparky:

I've Googled it myself, no such solutions for the issue regarding these two updates. That is, other than uninstalling them.

Since I've uninstalled them, my system is far more stable and responsive.

Yes I am in the same boat, no updates and computer is faster.
98% of users won't notice this or don't care I guess.

The 2 updates aren't critical so I think I will live without them.

This is probably M$'s way of fooling people to upgrade...oh my computer is slow, I better upgrade.

Side note*

I disabled TextServicesFramework monitor task and that sped my computer up even faster.


BIGbadjohn
This bad boy stole one of my birds.-
Premium
join:2003-03-05
Ireland
reply to Cartel

I also noticed my new Win 7 computer trailing a bit past few days. Uninstalled the aforementioned updates and hey presto!



trparky
Apple... YUM
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join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

I've been in talks with some Microsoft technicians and they would like to know what update is causing the issue. They suggest installing one of the updates and test. If that's the one that causes it, tell me, and I will get back with the Microsoft technician that I'm in contact with.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | AOKP (The Android Open Kang Project)


neonturbo

join:2009-02-27
Lansing, MI

1 recommendation

reply to Cartel

I had this problem but didn't know what was causing it. My symptoms were: The system would slow to a crawl about every 10 minutes or so. My browser (Opera) would become unresponsive, and I would get the "busy" mouse icon. The browser would dim briefly (like focus was being stolen from that program), and then 1-2 seconds later it would return to normal.

I had only KB2731847 installed, and once I removed it and rebooted everything went back to normal.

Win 7 Enterprise, 64 bit
Intel I5-750 Lynnfield
12GB RAM



rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

I can't say I have seen these symptoms on three Win 7 Pro 64bit systems which each have the two suspect KB's in place. To me, this suggests that it is something to do with particular hardware configurations, but no one seems to have identified what is the cause. It does not seem to be CPU related, because you have an Intel i5 and the three systems I mentioned are all Intel (two i3 and one i7). The three systems I mentioned are also from three different vendors. One Gateway, one Dell, and one Toshiba (laptop). You'd think at least one of those would have problems. I have kept a note of the suspect KB's because I might want to remove them from the i7 system, just because . . . .
--
It is easier for a camel to put on a bikini than an old man to thread a needle.



trparky
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Cleveland, OH
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I've installed KB2724197 on two of my computers and left off KB2731847 since I've talked to that Microsoft technician. So far, after the two machines have been online overnight, there seems to be no issues but more testing needs to be done.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | AOKP (The Android Open Kang Project)



Blackbird
Built for Speed
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reply to Cartel

Most interesting! I'd installed 2731847 in its original incarnation on this Win7-64 system back in September along with the other August and September updates (I'd been out of town a lot, so updates to this system were delayed). After that, I noticed some odd slowdowns with my Opera browser versions, sporadic hesitations/delays, and a slight slowness-to-respond with a variety of things. Because it was sporadic, at first (and for a while threafter) I suspected some issues with Opera... then I found this thread the other day and decided to uninstall the update. Immediately, the "snappiness" returned to the system and to Opera. Needless to say, when the latest version of 2731847 was re-offered among the October updates (along with 2724197) which I was just installing today, I elected to hide both in Windows Update, since this system is in a secure location and local-access exploits are not an issue.

Thanks to Cartel See Profile for starting this thread... and for the rest of the contributors for pointing me to the solution to the slowdowns!
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775



trparky
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Cleveland, OH
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I installed the KB2724197 update on three of my systems and it appears, at least with the limited testing that I've done, that the KB2724197 update isn't the one to blame. By process of elimination, it appears it may be that KB2731847 is the one to blame.

Can someone do some testing for me? I'm in contact with a Microsoft representative that's escalating this issue. More information is going to be helpful in narrowing down what exact update is causing this issue.
--
Tom
Boycott AT&T uVerse! | Tom's Android Blog | AOKP (The Android Open Kang Project)



jabarnut
Light Years Away
Premium,MVM
join:2005-01-22
Galaxy M31
kudos:2

1 edit

From Blackbird See Profile's post above, as well as neonturbo See Profile's post a bit before that (who had *only* KB2731847 installed), it appears to me they have shown that one to be the culprit.
Although, I also installed both updates on my Windows 7 machine and haven't noticed these symptoms...so who knows what may be causing the problem or conflict.
I'm assuming this is only Windows 7 machines? (I'm on an XP machine right now and can't seem to find it).

(Edit) Ok, now I'm really confused. I looked further back on my XP machine, and I installed KB2731847 way back in August, rather than recently. I'll have to see when it was installed on my Win 7 machine next time I fire it up. Either way, I haven't noticed the problem some of you are exoeriencing.
--
I had a life once.....now I have a Computer and a Modem.



trparky
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join:2000-05-24
Cleveland, OH
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It may be localized to Windows 7 64-bit machines.



jabarnut
Light Years Away
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Galaxy M31
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You may very well be on to something there. All of my machines are 32-bit, and a few posts above specifically mentioned they had the problem with Windows 7 64-bit machines.
--
I had a life once.....now I have a Computer and a Modem.



Blackbird
Built for Speed
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reply to jabarnut

said by jabarnut:

...(Edit) Ok, now I'm really confused. I looked further back on my XP machine, and I installed KB2731847 way back in August, rather than recently. I'll have to see when it was installed on my Win 7 machine next time I fire it up. Either way, I haven't noticed the problem some of you are exoeriencing.

This supplies some detail of what occurred on my Win7-64 system. The 2731847 update I installed in September was one of the August-released updates - I put in two months worth of updates at the same time on 25 Sept. The problems showed up both immediately and sporadically during the first couple weeks of October... most of the time Opera 11.52 was noticeably slower to open when starting it. Occasionally when browsing to a new page, Opera would occasionally simply halt with a blank page - as if DNS lookup was slow or not functioning. Sometimes during page load, it would simply halt for significant time spans while trying to load page portions (probably redirected portions). Throughout this time I was coming to believe that something had gone amiss with Opera itself.

Because of an Opera Browser Forum website/server problem a few days ago (that refused to load that site in 11.52 and the 12 versions for some Opera users), I reverted to using Opera 10.63 for those few days. That version also was slower to open when starting it, though not as slow as 11.52. The other 'sporadic' phenomena also occurred when using 10.63, though given their sporadic nature, it's hard to make a comparison with 11.52 over just the few days of use.

During that entire time, only the August-update version of 2731847 was installed on this system. After I first read this thread, I checked Win Update and discovered KB2724197 and a new version (apparently) of 2731847 being offered for this system with the October updates. I then exited Win Update and uninstalled the August 2731847 update, and I observed the Opera problems had disappeared, over the next couple of days - the Opera browsers loaded immediately, and the sporadic problems have not (yet) recurred. Finally, I returned to Windows update, declined these two new October updates, and installed all the others on the system. Things are still running great.
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775


plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3
reply to Cartel

I too am running Windows 7 x64 Enterprise and I have both of these updates installed. However, I'm not seeing the issues described in this thread.

As far as hardware, I have an AMD Athlon II X4 635 Processor with 12 GB of RAM.

I wonder if it has to do with having the updates already installed? Blackbird See Profile made a note that KB2731847 was installed back in September. For me, I just re-built my system on October 17th, and installed both of them at that time. I did not have the older ones installed first.

So a test that could be done would be to acquire both versions of these updates (prior to October, and the ones in October) as self-install exe's from Microsoft. I then see something along the lines of the following test cases.

1) Install Older versions and see if system is slow.
2) Install New versions over the top of older, and see if system is slow
3) Install just the newer versions, and see if the system is slow.

This would involve either using a VM or multiple installs of the OS to test, as I think it would be better to start each test without either version installed. Lot of work that is for sure (unless you have multiple systems), but it may be the best option to try to narrow down the issue.

So, I *think* that if you have a system with just the new versions of these installed, you won't see any issues.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


Kerodo

join:2004-05-08
reply to Cartel

For what it's worth (perhaps nothing), I just did a complete clean install and full update of Win 7 x64 yesterday, with all updates to date, and I see no issues whatsoever... This is on a 3 year old Asus laptop, Intel etc.



plencnerb
Premium
join:2000-09-25
Carpentersville, IL
kudos:3

said by Kerodo:

For what it's worth (perhaps nothing), I just did a complete clean install and full update of Win 7 x64 yesterday, with all updates to date, and I see no issues whatsoever... This is on a 3 year old Asus laptop, Intel etc.

This goes along with what I was thinking. If you do a clean install of Windows 7 today, you will only be offered the "updated" versions of the two KB articles mentioned in the OP's first post. The ones that were offered back in August or September will not be offered, as the two new ones replaced them. So in the end, you just have the two replacement KB's installed.

If things continue to work fine for you, we may be on to something here.

--Brian
--
============================
--Brian Plencner

E-Mail: CoasterBrian72Cancer@gmail.com
Note: Kill Cancer to Reply via e-mail


Cartel
Premium
join:2006-09-13
Chilliwack, BC
kudos:2
reply to Cartel

Wow I didn't even notice the 2 KB2731847 updates.

Should I remove the V1 update and see if it tries to install them both again??

Good catch Kerodo



rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

I went through a lot of hassle getting SP1 onto the Win 7 Pro 64-bit laptop that had not received it. This is the laptop I mentioned in the earlier post. I discovered the reason via a KB article and was able to update the video driver from the Toshiba site. Then the SP1 update failed multiple times, so I ended up downloading the stand alone installer, which worked. However, I did notice after that that the system was slower to boot, and along the way, I removed those updates KB2731847 and KB2724197 and it came up faster. Based on that, I hid the two when they were offered again by MS update. I then removed the same updates from two other systems (desktops) and they both seemed to respond a little faster with most applications. So, I have altered my feelings about these updates having a noticeable effect on systems.

Windows update will offer these two again because they are critical according to MS. I am willing to take the chance concerning the potential threat, but others may not be.
--
It is easier for a camel to put on a bikini than an old man to thread a needle.



Cartel
Premium
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When I read them it said "important" not critical and a attacker must have local access to the computer to do the attack, not remote access.

KB2731847 & KB2724197

........if an attacker logs on to the system and runs a specially crafted application. An attacker must have valid logon credentials and be able to log on locally to exploit this vulnerability.

This security update is rated Important for all supported releases of Microsoft Windows.
--
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Zalman 9700NT G.Skill F3-10666CL7-4GBXH 16GB Sapphire Radeon HD 6970 2GB GDDR5 HT Omega Claro Plus Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit SP1 ADSL 6Mbps APC Back UPS XS1000



rcdailey
Dragoonfly
Premium
join:2005-03-29
Rialto, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

said by Cartel:

When I read them it said "important" not critical and a attacker must have local access to the computer to do the attack, not remote access.

KB2731847 & KB2724197

........if an attacker logs on to the system and runs a specially crafted application. An attacker must have valid logon credentials and be able to log on locally to exploit this vulnerability.

This security update is rated Important for all supported releases of Microsoft Windows.

You are right. They did _not_ say critical. The updates are still offered unless hidden, but then again, even optional updates are offered unless hidden. I usually accept "important" updates, but these two seem to have been unnecessary for the systems on which they were installed, and performance also seems better without them. People working there always complain when the software seem sluggish, so anything that helps that is good.
--
It is easier for a camel to put on a bikini than an old man to thread a needle.


Cartel
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reply to trparky

said by trparky:

I installed the KB2724197 update on three of my systems and it appears, at least with the limited testing that I've done, that the KB2724197 update isn't the one to blame. By process of elimination, it appears it may be that KB2731847 is the one to blame.

Can someone do some testing for me? I'm in contact with a Microsoft representative that's escalating this issue. More information is going to be helpful in narrowing down what exact update is causing this issue.

Any updates?

Microsoft gonna fix this or should I disable Windows along with the sidebar?
--
ASUS Sabertooth 990FX AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Zalman 9700NT G.Skill F3-10666CL7-4GBXH 16GB Sapphire Radeon HD 6970 2GB GDDR5 HT Omega Claro Plus Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit SP1 ADSL 6Mbps APC Back UPS XS1000


Cartel
Premium
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1 edit
reply to trparky

Any more info ?



trparky
Apple... YUM
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join:2000-05-24
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No, I haven't heard from Microsoft yet.



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
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Baytown, TX
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btw it sounds like the update is a security related one

»support.microsoft.com/kb/2731847···ignin1.0

so hopefully its fixed at some point.



Blackbird
Built for Speed
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said by DarkLogix:

btw it sounds like the update is a security related one

»support.microsoft.com/kb/2731847···ignin1.0

so hopefully its fixed at some point.

Indeed, it's security-related... but exploitation requires physical access and successful log-on to a system: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS12-055
quote:
The vulnerability could allow elevation of privilege if an attacker logs on to the system and runs a specially crafted application. An attacker must have valid logon credentials and be able to log on locally to exploit this vulnerability. ...
For those of us with computers in essentially secure locations (which would include most homes and SOHO's), performance side-effects of this patch outweigh any security risks associated with it.
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775


Cartel
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reply to Cartel

said by trparky:

I've installed KB2724197 on two of my computers and left off KB2731847 since I've talked to that Microsoft technician. So far, after the two machines have been online overnight, there seems to be no issues but more testing needs to be done.

I got rid of KB2724197 again, something about it doesn't feel right.