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88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned) to jeffreydean1

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to jeffreydean1

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by jeffreydean1:

trespassing does not equal theft.

and.......?Who cares you still can't sneak into a theater. Get over the whole "downloading without paying isn't theft" so it's ok. Even if it's not theft it's still not ok. Which color crayon do I need to use to color that point in for you?
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to skeechan

Premium Member

to skeechan
said by skeechan:

Meanwhile people want this stuff for a reason. If you are enjoying it, you should pay for it, support the artists, actors and companies that are putting it together.

If the bands & actors had a DONATE (or an I FEEL REALLY BAD ABOUT PIRATING YOUR STUFF AND WANT TO GO LEGIT) button on their websites, I'd do that.

That said, I've never pirated.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned) to ArrayList

Member

to ArrayList
said by ArrayList:

no, it would be trespassing.

and it would still be wrong to do.
en103
join:2011-05-02

en103 to 88615298

Member

to 88615298
You 'can' pay for 'on-Demand' or wait until it comes on Blu-Ray/DVD at the local RedBox.

There are legal alternatives.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned) to IowaCowboy

Member

to IowaCowboy
I'd be interested in seeing a study of how many people that illegally down are also on some for of government assistance compared to the rest of the population. It seems those that justify it have a sense of entitlement. And I suspect people with a sense of entitlement tend to get entitlements. Let's face it if one is going to illegally download a movie you can rent from RedBox for $1.20 well that's being really cheap.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

1 recommendation

NormanS

MVM

said by 88615298:

I'd be interested in seeing a study of how many people that illegally down are also on some for of government assistance compared to the rest of the population.

Now who is stereotyping!

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList to 88615298

Premium Member

to 88615298
of course.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102 to 88615298

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to 88615298
said by 88615298:

I may never intend on paying $8 to see a movie at the local theater. So the theater isn't losing a sale by me sneaking in.

That's not what the content industry is arguing.

They are claiming that everyone who sneaks into the theater or otherwise watches the movie illegitimately would have paid the $11 ($8? Nice!) for a ticket to watch the movie, if there was simply enough incentive to do so.
en103
join:2011-05-02

en103 to 88615298

Member

to 88615298
If someone leaves $1000 on the street - is it theft or loss ?

The real issue here becomes is it the person who stumbles onto a website and watches video/listens to music stealing vs. the person that is hosting allowing the content to be streamed/downloaded.

Personally - its the person that is putting it out there for all to access (similar to copyright laws against having CD's played for public events w/o royalties). You go after the one that's pushing it, not and not fine those that are in the crowd listening to it.
en103

en103 to firephoto

Member

to firephoto
I agree with your stance.
If I stream the news - how do I know if I'm the images that I'm watching are legal?
If I'm listening to Shoutcast, how do I know if I'm listening to a 'pirate' radio (it may not be from the US).
slckusr
Premium Member
join:2003-03-17
Greenville, SC

slckusr to pnh102

Premium Member

to pnh102
said by pnh102:

said by Kamus:

said by FFH5:

Listen to or watch something else??

Be careful what you wish for...

This is exactly the kind of thing that should scare the shit out of the MPAA and RIAA.

I agree with you. Most people who pirate stuff would not be buying the content legitimately to begin with. Even if this system "worked," it won't result in significant numbers of people buying content... so who will the content industry blame next for faltering sales?

I just recently downloaded an album to see if it was any good, few days later I paid for a lesser quality version of what I downloaded. /shrug

seamore
Premium Member
join:2009-11-02

seamore

Premium Member

said by slckusr:

I just recently downloaded an album to see if it was any good, few days later I paid for a lesser quality version of what I downloaded. /shrug

Sadly, some would say "too bad."
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned) to pnh102

Member

to pnh102
said by pnh102:

said by 88615298:

I may never intend on paying $8 to see a movie at the local theater. So the theater isn't losing a sale by me sneaking in.

That's not what the content industry is arguing.

They are claiming that everyone who sneaks into the theater or otherwise watches the movie illegitimately would have paid the $11 ($8? Nice!) for a ticket to watch the movie, if there was simply enough incentive to do so.

You're missing my point. My reluctance to pay doesn't not give me a right to that content.
88615298

88615298 (banned) to seamore

Member

to seamore
said by seamore:

said by slckusr:

I just recently downloaded an album to see if it was any good, few days later I paid for a lesser quality version of what I downloaded. /shrug

Sadly, some would say "too bad."

That's directed towards me and is in fact have nothing to do with what I said. Your comment is stupid.
88615298

88615298 (banned) to NormanS

Member

to NormanS
said by NormanS:

said by 88615298:

I'd be interested in seeing a study of how many people that illegally down are also on some for of government assistance compared to the rest of the population.

Now who is stereotyping!

I'm not stereotyping because I never said ALL people that illegally download are on government assistance. Besides I just said I'd like to see a study. That study could go one way or the other. You have an issue with research?
kxrm
join:2002-07-18
Fort Worth, TX

kxrm to 88615298

Member

to 88615298
But My friend on the internet gave me this copy, he paid for it. So it's cool now right?
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer to 88615298

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to 88615298
said by 88615298:

A) You're friend paid for the content

B) watching at a friend's who that gave you permission to do so is 100% different than sneaking into a theater without permission and I think you know that.

Your post that I replied to specified that you were talking about ME VIEWING THE CONTENT WITHOUT PAYING. You seem to be implying that it is the content which is 'stolen'. As I have just pointed out, this is not the case. Looking deeper into your post it is clear that, by me downloading content for free, you feel slighted since you paid for it. That feeling is what is driving your argument... not logic. You now have to backtrack and say that as long as my friend paid for it, it is ok. The problem with that logic is that as long as my friend paid for it, then I should be able to copy it too since we both agree that I am entitled to view the content. The 'loss' to the content owner is EXACTLY the same.

Consider the following:

- I go to my friend's house and we watch one of his DVD's together
- I borrow his DVD and watch it at my house
- I go to his house and he gives me a copy of the DVD to take home
- He makes a torrent of the movie and I download it from my house

In each of those scenarios, the end result is the same; I watched the movie without paying for it. In each of those scenarios, my friend had a legally purchased DVD and gave me permission to watch it. In two of those scenarios, I did nothing wrong... in the other two, I have somehow 'stolen' something. In all the situations, the loss is the same.

If you have some other concept of what is being 'stolen" I would be happy to go down that road too. I don't have a problem with colloquialism; Casanova was a thief of hearts, people steal words out of my mouth, I even took a girl's virginity once (although strangely, I didn't become a virgin once I had it). But none of these acts makes one a criminal.

skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium Member
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170

skeechan to MaynardKrebs

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to MaynardKrebs
I'm sure your employer would love to "donate" to your paycheck.
vukota
join:2007-09-01
Wheeling, IL

vukota to 88615298

Member

to 88615298
said by 88615298:

said by CXM_Splicer:

As I said to Morac, I can go to a friend's house and view the content without paying for it... HE paid for it but I didn't; why is THAT not stealing?

A) You're friend paid for the content

B) watching at a friend's who that gave you permission to do so is 100% different than sneaking into a theater without permission and I think you know that.

So to make analogy, according to your view

A) Friend paid for the content

B) Friend gave me permission to watch a movie from his computer using remote desktop or similar application (so I don't have to go to his house)

IS perfectly legal?

Or another scenario, Friend paid for a Netflix and he is willing to share his account info with me, is perfectly legal too?

Or friend purchased (or rented) a DVD, watched a movie and now borrowed it to me so I can watch it too?

Or friend purchased a DVD, watched a movie and now would like to sell it to me (for less than what he paid for), that should be legal too?

Well RIAA doesn't think so.

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

Bill Neilson to NormanS

Premium Member

to NormanS
said by NormanS:

said by 88615298:

said by pnh102:

Most people who pirate stuff would not be buying the content legitimately to begin with.

That's not true and you're just stereotyping people.

Can anybody cite studies on this, demonstrating that one, or the other is true?

Ever heard of iTunes? Or the insanely rising sales of online video sales? Or are we ignoring those quite easily seen options?

Good products with Good values and Good selections MAKE MONEY HAND-IN-FIST.

Of course, we usually get a half-assed try with most online sources and then those who cant find their stuff ANYWHERE (like me) end up pirating it.

Want me to buy it? Put it up. I buy everything I can legally.
Mordhem
Love it, Hate it.
join:2003-07-10
Baltimore, MD

Mordhem to IowaCowboy

Member

to IowaCowboy
said by IowaCowboy:

If it's copyrighted, pay for it and download it from a legitimate source such as iTunes or Netflix.

Illegal downloading is a high tech form of shoplifting as it is similar to shoplifting a CD or DVD at Best Buy or Target. Downloading illegally is basically theft in my book.

Yes do what this man says, also don't forget to do like him and when you sit on it rotate make sure you have a smile for all those poor people waiting in food lines because you have shared a file and sharing is and always has been stealing!!! BTW IowaCowboy can you please make sure to share your book with us in the torrent community because I can tell you from my own personal experience I have been losing sleep over it and I just don't know what to do!

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
Premium Member
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy

Premium Member

When you purchase a music or movie from a legal source, you do not own the media or the content. You are purchasing a license to view or listen to the content for private home viewing. The copyright owner actually owns the work and they are selling you a license to view the work. The terms of the license prohibit you from copying or redistributing the work without the written consent of the copyright holder. As for quality, if you want high quality music or movies, go to Best Buy and buy the CD or Blu-Ray. I just bought the new CD by Green Day at Best Buy today and I popped the disc into the CD player in my car and nearly blew the speakers because the bitrate was so high that it was too loud for my usual volume setting for my iPhone connected to the deck via a dock cable.

Don't forget to pay for the CD or Blu-Ray on your way out of Best Buy

Entities that use copyrighted content for public exhibition (such as DJs, radio stations, sports venues, etc) have to pay huge licensing fees to the copyright holder to play/show copyrighted content and they pay way more than the $11.99 I paid for the new Green Day album at Best Buy.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
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SimbaSeven to 88615298

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to 88615298
said by 88615298:

Do you pay for cable tv? it has LOTS of ads.

It wasn't decades ago. You paid for CATV to avoid ads and get a better picture. Now, I dunno.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

said by SimbaSeven:

said by 88615298:

Do you pay for cable tv? it has LOTS of ads.

It wasn't decades ago. You paid for CATV to avoid ads and get a better picture. Now, I dunno.

You pay for CATV to get 300 channels instead of a dozen max OTA.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer to IowaCowboy

Premium Member

to IowaCowboy
Ahhh, so the plot thickens. Now Violation of License terms = Shoplifting... ok, got it. So I guess if I root my phone and tether it I am also shoplifting?

Just out of curiosity, if all you are buying is a license to view/listen to the work, what is that shiny round plastic thing? If I shoplift that extra plastic doohickey from Best Buy, does the license get shoplifted with it? I also find it very strange that you can 'loan' your purchased license to other people, I would think you need the permission of the content owner to loan or transfer the license to another party. After all, what if they don't agree to said license?

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium Member
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

pnh102 to 88615298

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to 88615298
said by 88615298:

You're missing my point. My reluctance to pay doesn't not give me a right to that content.

I'm not claiming it does.

Me personally, I agree that copyrights must be respected by all, but I don't think that my ISP subscriber fees should be financing that effect, especially when I have to prove that I am innocent of such infringement should I get one of these love notes. As a paying customer, I am the boss, and it is my ass that should be kissed by the vendor, not the other way around.

If content owners wish to go after those who infringe on their work, there exist plenty of existing legal vehicles for them to go do that.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·StarLink

SimbaSeven to CXM_Splicer

Member

to CXM_Splicer
said by CXM_Splicer:

What if that person loses my original, should I erase the songs from my iPod?

According to copyright law, you are allowed to make one backup of the original. So, make a backup and hide the original. If the backup gets destroyed, make another.
said by CXM_Splicer:

If I own a copy of a DVD but want an archival copy, can I download that archive from a torrent or have I committed infringement?

If you downloaded from a torrent, you committed infringement. But there are tools to backup your DVD/Bluray that are available everywhere and are rather easy to use.
Mordhem
Love it, Hate it.
join:2003-07-10
Baltimore, MD

Mordhem to IowaCowboy

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to IowaCowboy
This could be argued in many of ways especially when it comes down to who owns the media and license issues. Such as the songwriter who ends up not owning something he actually created because some fancy guys in suits and ties basically ends up owning the material he ends up making only pennies on a sale. When you're at a friends house and he turns on his nice new Blu Ray & plays this new movie he has gotten that you do not own neither does your 4 other friends should he be liable to the damages that you may have just caused the copyright holder?? I just don't see them going hungry in fact many studies have shown sales have went up. The only thing I have seen in the music industry is many artist are moving away from using the large labels because they can make more money doing it their self especially when you don't got to pay the fat cat.

Also taking a medium of any sort and then "Sharing" clones of that said medium can no way be considered the same as "shoplifting The criminal action of stealing goods from a shop while pretending to be a customer causing the shop to lose said product & money" or stealing "to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.".

Also Note that some people would not have actually went and purchased the said medium if not for seeing or hearing in the first place. Anyways call it what you want but is larger things going on in the world and I don't think Copyright issues should be on top of the list what about human rights and all the other problems we are facing.
CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium Member
join:2011-08-11
NYC

CXM_Splicer to SimbaSeven

Premium Member

to SimbaSeven
Thank you but the questions were more rhetorical (not semantic, I stand corrected). I know there are definite legal answers to the questions but I am more concerned with the common sense implications of things that are made illegal under copyright law.

I will take your second answer as an example:
quote:
If you downloaded from a torrent, you committed infringement. But there are tools to backup your DVD/Bluray that are available everywhere and are rather easy to use.

I agree that a torrent is (as NormanS pointed out) a bad example for technical reasons since torrent programs also upload. But consider Usenet then... if you are entitled to have 1 backup copy, why is it infringement to get that copy from the Internet rather than buying a separate program to do it yourself? Either way you end up with a copy. Sorry, that just makes no sense to me.

IowaCowboy
Lost in the Supermarket
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join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA

IowaCowboy to SimbaSeven

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to SimbaSeven
Also, what I have read about music is that a typical song has two copyrights a copyright on the song itself and a mechanical copyright on the recording (which is why many compilations of older songs are re-recordings of the song by the original artist as they only have to license the song itself and the record company publishing the song can get a new copyright on the re-recording).

You also have to watch out for franchise bands where you'll get a bunch of guys going around as artists/bands from the '60s and '70s and licensing the songs and band names. We were at a boat show years ago and there was a franchise band performing as Danny and the Juniors (my mother grew up in the '60s and 70's so she knew they were a knock-off band and it was not really them).