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ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
reply to IowaCowboy

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

illegal downloading is not theft in any way. theft requires loss of an item. call it what it is, copyright infringement. and the infringer is not the person downloading it. the infringer is the person supplying it.


firephoto
We the people
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA
said by ArrayList:

illegal downloading is not theft in any way. theft requires loss of an item. call it what it is, copyright infringement. and the infringer is not the person downloading it. the infringer is the person supplying it.

The factual details they always fail to mention.
--
Say no to astroturfing. actions > Ignore Author


Morac
Cat god

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to ArrayList
said by ArrayList:

illegal downloading is not theft in any way. theft requires loss of an item. call it what it is, copyright infringement. and the infringer is not the person downloading it. the infringer is the person supplying it.

By that logic, if someone manages to access their bank records and adds a few zeroes to their balance, then that's legal. After all there is no "loss of an item".
--
The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
reply to ArrayList
said by ArrayList:

illegal downloading is not theft in any way. theft requires loss of an item.

So I can sneak into a theater without paying because I'm not stealing anything phsyical

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to Morac
said by Morac:

By that logic, if someone manages to access their bank records and adds a few zeroes to their balance, then that's legal. After all there is no "loss of an item".

Great point... if I add a few zeros to my passbook's balance... have I stolen anything? Of course not, it would be ridiculous to think I have.

If you access the banks computer and add some zeros to your balance... have you stolen anything? NO... you certainly have committed a computer crime but the THEFT doesn't occur until you go withdraw money you don't own; same as with the passbook. At that time, you are depriving the bank of real money.


Morac
Cat god

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by CXM_Splicer:

Great point... if I add a few zeros to my passbook's balance... have I stolen anything? Of course not, it would be ridiculous to think I have.

If you access the banks computer and add some zeros to your balance... have you stolen anything? NO... you certainly have committed a computer crime but the THEFT doesn't occur until you go withdraw money you don't own; same as with the passbook. At that time, you are depriving the bank of real money.

I think my point flew over your head. These days money is digital. You don't think there's actually a piece of paper money for every dollar out there do you?

If someone adds money to their account and never actually withdraws money and instead uses it to buy virtual items (say movie downloads), you can't say no crime has been committed. Just because the money was created out of thin air, doesn't mean someone doesn't have to eventually pay for it down the line.

Likewise, if instead of purchasing a download from a movie company, you choose to pirate a copy of it, you are technically depriving the company out of the purchase price. Things get a bit more blurry if you never had any intention of making a purchase in the first place, but that doesn't make it legal.

It may not technically be theft, but it is the very definition of piracy, which last I checked wasn't legal.
--
The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to 88615298
said by 88615298:

So I can sneak into a theater without paying because I'm not stealing anything phsyical

Yes. And you won't go to jail because of theft because you have not taken anything. You may be charged with trespassing. Or more likely tossed out the door.


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
said by cdru:

said by 88615298:

So I can sneak into a theater without paying because I'm not stealing anything phsyical

Yes. And you won't go to jail because of theft because you have not taken anything. You may be charged with trespassing. Or more likely tossed out the door.

Being charged with trespassing or thrown out kind of means I CAN'T sneak in.

jeffreydean1

join:2010-05-31
trespassing does not equal theft.

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
reply to Morac
said by Morac:

I think my point flew over your head. These days money is digital. You don't think there's actually a piece of paper money for every dollar out there do you?

If someone adds money to their account and never actually withdraws money and instead uses it to buy virtual items (say movie downloads), you can't say no crime has been committed. Just because the money was created out of thin air, doesn't mean someone doesn't have to eventually pay for it down the line.

Likewise, if instead of purchasing a download from a movie company, you choose to pirate a copy of it, you are technically depriving the company out of the purchase price. Things get a bit more blurry if you never had any intention of making a purchase in the first place, but that doesn't make it legal.

It may not technically be theft, but it is the very definition of piracy, which last I checked wasn't legal.

Actually, your point was completely clear but I think is you missing something. I would never say no crime would be committed if you used a illegally modified account balance to buy virtual items... what I was saying is that the THEFT doesn't occur until you buy those virtual items. Merely changing an account balance doesn't constitute 'theft'.

When I download a copy of a movie, the only thing I have deprived anyone of is desired revenue. NormanS is 100% accurate in his post. There are many ways I can deprive them of desired revenue and still obtain the 'content' for free... for instance, if I go to a friends house and watch the DVD he legally purchased. I have seen the movie even though I never bought it... why is that not theft?

That is only the very recently modified definition of 'Piracy'. The actual definition is when you sell illegal copies for a profit.


cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
reply to 88615298
said by 88615298:

Being charged with trespassing or thrown out kind of means I CAN'T sneak in.

If you can't do it, then they can't charge you with trespassing and/or throw you out. But in order to do so, you must have already sneaked in.

Regardless of the semantic issue of if you can or can't, if you do there is no way that you are going to get charged with theft.


ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
reply to Morac
actually there are laws that say a bank has to produce the physical money if a person asks for it, so legally speaking, it would be theft.


ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
reply to 88615298
no, it would be trespassing.


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
reply to jeffreydean1
said by jeffreydean1:

trespassing does not equal theft.

and.......?Who cares you still can't sneak into a theater. Get over the whole "downloading without paying isn't theft" so it's ok. Even if it's not theft it's still not ok. Which color crayon do I need to use to color that point in for you?


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
reply to ArrayList
said by ArrayList:

no, it would be trespassing.

and it would still be wrong to do.


ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA
of course.

en103

join:2011-05-02
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
reply to 88615298
If someone leaves $1000 on the street - is it theft or loss ?

The real issue here becomes is it the person who stumbles onto a website and watches video/listens to music stealing vs. the person that is hosting allowing the content to be streamed/downloaded.

Personally - its the person that is putting it out there for all to access (similar to copyright laws against having CD's played for public events w/o royalties). You go after the one that's pushing it, not and not fine those that are in the crowd listening to it.