World of Warcraft → [MoP] Valor vs Conquest

I've not participated in PvP since MoP's release, but I just started thinking about this when I saw a couple of guys with a few pieces of this seasons Conquest gear equipped.

Currently for me to cap my Valor Points at 1,000 it takes 200 daily quests or ~30 heroic dungeon runs. Or any combination of those 2 plus scenarios...Capping Valor usually takes the casual player like myself the entire week.

The last time I checked, I can buy absolutely nothing to progress my character with 1,000 Valor Points. This means, it's impossible for me to buy any gear upgrades in a one week lockout, it'll take at least 8 days for me to buy a piece of gear that costs 1250 Valor Points...IF I have the reputation with the required faction to purchase it.

The Conquest Point cap is 1650 a week, and possibly much higher depending on your MMR. You get 100 points for winning your first random BG, and 50 points for each subsequent BG. Anyone with a pulse can jump in a 2v2 team and reach that cap (1350) in an hour or so of play time. So, with 10 2v2 wins and 5 random BG wins someone can cap their Conquest Points for the week. This can easily be accomplished in 3 hours of play time. Now that I have my 1650(>1000) points, I have several pieces of gear that I can chose from to upgrade my character's gear...Trinkets, shoulders, belts, boots, or gloves for 1650 points. Amulets, rings, cloaks, and bracers for 1250. This gear just requires the appropriate amount of currency, no reputation necessary.

So, in order to buy an ilvl 489 amulet that has stats more beneficial to PvE, I have to spend at least 8 days doing dailies, heroics, and scenarios, and have a reputation of at least honored with the Klaxxi. But for me to get an amulet that is 6 item levels lower and has stats more beneficial to PvP, I have to spend roughly 3 hours killing Horde...Doesn't add up, aye?

What makes it work is that the gear isn't totally backwards compatible...I'll hit like a wet noodle in a BG in my PvE gear with no PvP power and will get crushed with no PvP resilience. Conversely, raiders of top end progression guilds are filling their missing gear slots with ilvl 483 PvP pieces that they earn in a few hours of play time.

This is just another way proving that Blizzard's model earning Valor Points and reputation grinding needs to be adjusted.

I'm not suggesting that we hand out purple pixels for everyone, but if you're going to make it a struggle for "one side of the house", the make it equally as difficult for the other.

I don't want to have to PvP to get the raw stats I need to be successful in PvE, even at this point in the expansion. The same goes for the guys that primarily PvP, they shouldn't have to feel the need to PvE (for legendary daggers or overpowered trinkets, for example) to maintain competitive in PvP.

Athene was right, require a specific rating for certain PvE gear in arenas/bgs. Conversely, reduce the stats on PvP gear when it's worn in a raid.

Is there a exchange for Conquest to valor? Like the JP/honor thing?

if so then maybe that would be a good way to cap faster, also if there is does it allow a loop hole for the weekly cap?

No loophole (as in, you cannot gain more than 1000 valor in a week), but you CAN cap using it.

so do you still get Cons for subsequent wins in random bgs, it used to be only the first, i take it they changed this?

God, I hate when I type a reply, hit send, and it disappears into the internether.

I can get the 5 best pieces of Malevolent Gladiator's armor for 9900 Conquest points...Helm, shoulders, chest, legs, and gloves. At a maximum, this takes me 6 weeks if I cap at 1650 every week. If I'm at 2k mmr I can get the gear in 5 weeks.

It takes 10 weeks to get 9900 Valor Points no matter how awesome you are at killing Mogu, Gazelles, Spiders, Quillen, Dragons, Voodoo Trolls, etc.

All I'm saying is that the gearing rate should be normalized...that's all.

100 for first win, 50 for subsequent vs 60 VP for first heroic, 30 for subsequent.

Is completing a heroic level dungeon really only %60 as good as beating a bunch of bots in a PvP objective?

tanks, m88888888te

See the difference is the ONLY way to get pvp gear is points.
PVE gear drops from bosses, and LFR.

SO big deal you need to put in the work to get into raids then get gear from raiding. Which took me a week to get my Ilvl high enough for LFR.
In pvp you need to grind your points every week.

Naw PvP just needs a nerf.

So let's say someone doesn't like to raid...he just wants to do heroics and dailies.

Kinda like the guy that doesn't like competitive PvP and just does random BGs.

The guy who doesn't like to raid is at even more of a disadvantage, the only way he is getting his Valor is from dailies and heroics/scenarios, and the only way he is getting gear is by grinding rep and buying it with points.

The guy who likes to PvP casually still has access to the same gear that the guy who arenas and rbgs does (with the exception of weapons), and can still get 1650 points in a week easier than guy #1 can get 1000.

The fact of the matter is that if you have two casual solo players, one that PvEs and one that PvPs, the guy that PvPs is going to get better gear at a faster rate than his PvE counterpart.

In my opinion, those two players should gear to an equal quality at an equal rate. Why does the guy who PvPs deserver quicker access to higher level gear than the other guy?

I think the answer is rather obvious: the guy that PvPs is a better human being and his/her time is more valuable.

Because in PVP your gear is compared to an ever-better geared opponent. But your PVE opponents won't be getting better gear, so you can afford a longer ramp time.

So PvP guy's $15/mo is worth more than PvE guy's?

Gear at the same rate is all I'm saying. If that nerfs PvP gearing to the same rate as PvE, fine. If it increases the rate I can earn Valor Points to the same rate I can earn Conquest, that's fine too.

If by "worth" you mean "my account is worth my gear score" then yeah, that's a problem.

But I'd say worth is described by your ability to progress through content.

One of the problems is that you're not considering all options. A PVEer can acquire gear through a huge variety of means: dungeons, raids, epic crafts, hell even BMAH now. PVP gear is acquired almost solely through PVP grinding.

So while the dungeon hero's $15 is gearing him slowly, that is because he is not taking advantage of all opportunities to gear for PVE play. The most dedicated Gladiator can still only get gear through PVP play (and maybe a lucky Sha kill, but that's sort of a slot machine anyways and not a proper "gearing path" decision)

Well the PvP'er WILL get gear via points, but the PvE'er only MIGHT get gear from bosses.

And the PvP'er COULD get gear from the BMAH but its unlikely.

I think what spurred this thread initially is that I've seen several players in moderately progressed guilds using Conquest gear to fill gaps in their PvE sets.

The sole reasoning behind this is that they can get those boots or whatever way easier with Conquest than with Valor. It probably took them 2 hours of grinding PvP to get the 1650 points needed to buy them. Whereas god only knows how long it would take them to go the PvE route to fill the same gearing gap with a comparable PvE item.

Most people gearing like this don't have an arena or RBG rating, only have a few HKs, and really only PvP to get gear to fill the gaps that the broken ass Valor system is leaving.

If I want to be competitively geared with other Mages who PvE, I shouldn't feel the need to grind out 1650 Conquest Points to do so. And the same goes for the guy who loves PvP. Stabby McStabbington shouldn't feel the need to run DS until his eyes bleed to get an overpowered trinket and legendary daggers to be competitive in arenas.

The PVP CAN'T get gear from bosses (again, excepting Sha), only from points. That's actually the main thrust of my argument.

And I suppose we can except BMAH because that is decidedly NOT on the gearing path.

I agree that PVP gearing for PVE content is a problem.

I'm not entirely sure that PVP needs a gearing path. Just standardize the gear set you get stepping into organized PVP, let world PVP be a clusterfuck because it always will be, and use some other barometer for skill/accomplishment.

But I guess the MMO gear carrot is why the game still has subs, and people do like the "I've been playing longer than you, therefore I deserve to be more powerful than you" motif.

Ya anything goes at the BMAH, they COULD list anything on there, if they so felt like it even the highest most awesome PvP weapon that would require a rating otherwise.

A PvE'er could kill every boss in a lockout and still get nothing, and do all the rep grinding and could still get nothing that lockout.

A PvP'er will get their points and will get their gear.

That becomes more of a "consistent but slower" vs "inconsistent but possibly faster" thing. PVE could go solely off points, but ilvl is a bit more elegant in the long run.

It's also a consequence of PVP not having a chance to randomly drop stuff.

Heres an easy fix, make it so PvP power/resilience would act as a negative stat when in PvE content.

Make it so whatever your main stat is you'd subtract PvP stats from that.

So say you have 5k pvp power and 10k intel and you're a caster.
then in PvE you'd have 5k intel.

Also add in something where if you're intel was below base you insta die.

Easy fix put a bag of stuff as a prize for winning a PvP event.
just like scenarios.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not "complaining" about anything. Nothing is stopping me from grinding out my 1650 conq and getting my piece of gear, other than the fact that I don't want to.

It seems like Blizzard made huge efforts to "gate" the PvE player base in PvE content, but implimented nothing to "gate" the PvPer. As a matter of fact, the rate one gains Conquest Points has actually been increased.

This "works" but its confusing and players do not like feeling "punished".

Easiest fix is to just disable the pieces of PvP gear when you step into a raid. Take them off the character sheet completely.

Mr PvP guy wants to raid, he can either take the correct gearing path or step in there and be completely useless like a guy in a BG in all PvE gear.

That's why its punishment, you're not suppose to like it.

Problem with that is the crossover. Guy PVPs a lot, gets bored, wants to raid but his PVP gear is worth 0, so he doesn't, and quits the game because he's done.

I suspect that actually happens a lot.

Maybe the fix is just lowering the ilvl of PVP gear even further, and making PVP stats matter more in PVP environments so that PVE gear doesn't overtake it. That's what they've been trying to do; maybe it just needs to go further.

I mean, its all in the art of balance. At least PVP ilvl now properly reflects PVE potential (where it matters in random queues).

You ever been in a BG at the end of a season in all PvE gear?

If I was, I would've been that guy. I do not PVP. PVE gear gets you killed, but you can still kill things in PVE gear. This mgiht not be true anymore, because of power. But I'll always have a crafted baseline (note: the 450 crafted gear is clearly designed to gear up both PVP and PVE players. They just need some tank equivalents and I'd be fine with that system)

Speaking of, the legendary line apparently requires you to win 10 battlegrounds in 5.1. So. That's coming.

nope but that is an optional path to get the rep.
in 5.1 you'll need to earn revered with the black prince and you can do that via, killing horde, wining 10 BG's, killing generals, and some other stuff.