dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
23
share rss forum feed


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

1 recommendation

reply to IowaCowboy

Re: Simple way to avoid copyright issues

said by IowaCowboy:

Illegal downloading is a high tech form of shoplifting as it is similar to shoplifting a CD or DVD at Best Buy or Target. Downloading illegally is basically theft in my book.

You need to rewrite your book.

• If I download illegally, I deprive the IP owner of income only, not real property. If I just don't buy it, I also deprive the IP owner of income without depriving him of real property. So what is "similar" to theft about downloading? Or am I a thief for not buying?

• It is between difficult and impossible to catch downloaders. Ever hear of a court case against a Usenet downloader? Only against BitTorrent users; whom are caught distributing (uploading).

Don't misunderstand; I realize that copyright violation is both a civil, and a criminal offense. But IP piracy is similar to theft in the same way that apples are similar to oranges.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


PaulHikeS2

join:2003-03-06
Fitchburg, MA
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by NormanS:

You need to rewrite your book.

Don't misunderstand; I realize that copyright violation is both a civil, and a criminal offense. But IP piracy is similar to theft in the same way that apples are similar to oranges.

This is well put. The problem is too many people here want to play semantics and are trying to justify copyright infringment by not even admitting that it is similar to theft.
--
Jay: What the @#$% is the internet???

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
said by PaulHikeS2:

This is well put. The problem is too many people here want to play semantics and are trying to justify copyright infringment by not even admitting that it is similar to theft.

That's funny, the problem as I see it is too many people have been subjected to consumer-think and can't admit that most forms of copyright infringement are similar to Fair Use.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
said by CXM_Splicer:

That's funny, the problem as I see it is too many people have been subjected to consumer-think and can't admit that most forms of copyright infringement are similar to Fair Use.

"Fair Use" is ripping archival copies of music from CDs.

Copyright infringement is sharing those rips with people who don't own the source media.

Copyright infringement is much less like fair use than it is like theft. And it makes me cringe to see copyright infringement equated with theft.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
quote:
"Fair Use" is ripping archival copies of music from CDs.

Copyright infringement is sharing those rips with people who don't own the source media.

Copyright infringement is much less like fair use than it is like theft. And it makes me cringe to see copyright infringement equated with theft.

Ok, some semantical questions then...

If I rip a CD that I own, can I still loan that CD out to someone or do I have to destroy the copy first?

What if that person loses my original, should I erase the songs from my iPod?

Is there a real difference between sharing the original vs. sharing the archival copy?

If I own a copy of a DVD but want an archival copy, can I download that archive from a torrent or have I committed infringement?

I don't claim that acts of downloading legally fall under the definition of 'fair use', only that the copyright laws create illegal situations from things where no one is doing anything wrong.

If it were up to me, I would structure the copyright laws to be more like patent law... if I make money from your creation, then you are entitled to a cut of that money. Personal use should be free.


NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:12
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
said by CXM_Splicer:

Ok, some semantical questions then...

"Semantics" has to do with the meanings of words. Your questions are less about "semantics" than about law. All answers would require adjudication. However:

If I rip a CD that I own, can I still loan that CD out to someone or do I have to destroy the copy first?

What if you loan it out, and the borrower rips it?

What if that person loses my original, should I erase the songs from my iPod?

Make him replace it?

Is there a real difference between sharing the original vs. sharing the archival copy?

As long as it is returned, probably not.

If I own a copy of a DVD but want an archival copy, can I download that archive from a torrent or have I committed infringement?

If you download from a torrent, you will be infringing. Using the BitTorrent protocol involves uploading, which is the infringing activity.

I don't claim that acts of downloading legally fall under the definition of 'fair use', only that the copyright laws create illegal situations from things where no one is doing anything wrong.

If it were up to me, I would structure the copyright laws to be more like patent law... if I make money from your creation, then you are entitled to a cut of that money. Personal use should be free.

Personal use is nearly impossible to police, anyway.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum


Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
reply to CXM_Splicer
said by CXM_Splicer:

What if that person loses my original, should I erase the songs from my iPod?

According to copyright law, you are allowed to make one backup of the original. So, make a backup and hide the original. If the backup gets destroyed, make another.
said by CXM_Splicer:

If I own a copy of a DVD but want an archival copy, can I download that archive from a torrent or have I committed infringement?

If you downloaded from a torrent, you committed infringement. But there are tools to backup your DVD/Bluray that are available everywhere and are rather easy to use.
--
Bresnan 30M/5M | CenturyLink 5M/896K
MyWS[PnmIIX3@3.2G,8G RAM,500G+1.5T+2T HDDs,Win7]
WifeWS[A64@2G,2G RAM,120G HDD,Win7]
Router[2xP3@1G,2G RAM,18G HDD,Allied Telesyn AT2560FX,2xDigital DE504,Sun X1034A,2xSun X4444A,SMC 8432BTA,Gentoo]

CXM_Splicer
Looking at the bigger picture
Premium
join:2011-08-11
NYC
kudos:2
Thank you but the questions were more rhetorical (not semantic, I stand corrected). I know there are definite legal answers to the questions but I am more concerned with the common sense implications of things that are made illegal under copyright law.

I will take your second answer as an example:
quote:
If you downloaded from a torrent, you committed infringement. But there are tools to backup your DVD/Bluray that are available everywhere and are rather easy to use.

I agree that a torrent is (as NormanS pointed out) a bad example for technical reasons since torrent programs also upload. But consider Usenet then... if you are entitled to have 1 backup copy, why is it infringement to get that copy from the Internet rather than buying a separate program to do it yourself? Either way you end up with a copy. Sorry, that just makes no sense to me.


IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast
reply to Simba7
Also, what I have read about music is that a typical song has two copyrights a copyright on the song itself and a mechanical copyright on the recording (which is why many compilations of older songs are re-recordings of the song by the original artist as they only have to license the song itself and the record company publishing the song can get a new copyright on the re-recording).

You also have to watch out for franchise bands where you'll get a bunch of guys going around as artists/bands from the '60s and '70s and licensing the songs and band names. We were at a boat show years ago and there was a franchise band performing as Danny and the Juniors (my mother grew up in the '60s and 70's so she knew they were a knock-off band and it was not really them).
--
I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town).