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Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA

1 recommendation

reply to Ramikor

Re: [MoP] Great Post - I couldn't agree more

I just listened to the Weekly Marmot's take on this (less than 3 lore)

He had a solid point. The problem with dailies is that you have to log in and do them every day. It acts as a gate (fine), but it also means you don't have an option as when to play (not fine).

He mentioned in BC spending hours farming for herbs for raid consumables, but those hours tended to be concentrated. If he didn't herb on Thursday, he could do so on Sunday (or whatever).

That was a sound argument. They understood that argument at one point (by giving valor from randoms a weekly cap, instead of a daily one). They should really get rid of it. Do something like upping the Dread Amber Shards drops by a ton; then you can daily it out or grind it out. If you really want to gate, find a way to cap rep gains per week (though I do not think that is necessary, since valor acquisition is the real cap). But let people spend 4 hours on a weekend doing their rep grind, instead of 45 minutes every day.

Also rep tokens for alts, kthx. Doing grinds twice is really, really tedious.


clawfury

join:2012-02-14
Rochester, MI

We may all slightly disagree on how it should be "fixed", but outside of a few people who view "sucking it up" and "grinding" as a point of pride, most of us agree something needs to be changed. To most of us, it feels like things are going backwards.



Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA

I mean, from a stated goal perspective, its succeeding:

1. People have something significant to their raiding progress to do outside of raiding. They may not be ENJOYING it, but its definitely something to do.

2. People do not spend all day in the home cities queuing up. They see the world, they engage in PVP, they are playing a game.

The non-success is "You have options!" I have tons of options to get valor points. But the only way to spend them is to grind dailies, every day, until revered, which takes a long time.



Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Nick D

said by Nick D:

He mentioned in BC spending hours farming for herbs for raid consumables, but those hours tended to be concentrated. If he didn't herb on Thursday, he could do so on Sunday (or whatever).

That was a sound argument. They understood that argument at one point (by giving valor from randoms a weekly cap, instead of a daily one)...let people spend 4 hours on a weekend doing their rep grind, instead of 45 minutes every day.

Excellent point. With the nerf to valor rewards from your first 7 daily runs (from 150ea down to 30ea) grinding out your valor caps using dungeons without dailies is painful. You still can't spend the valor unless you've already ground out the requisite rep. Each rep quest grants you only 5 vp (this was a small token added not to incentivize valor, but to dull the pain of grinding dailies for those who'd rather just grind out dungeons but now can't)... so you have to knock out 6 rep quests to equal one dungeon's worth of valor... but you need far more than 6 rep quests to gain rep in a timely fashion. And, if you miss a day doing rep dailies... you don't just miss out on 6 quests... but on all of them, since you've lost out on a day's worth of progression.

But it bears mentioning that we are talking about "need" from a reference of wanting to raid (not being carried) in the first couple of weeks of hitting 90. It was inflated by being a new expansion where no one in the guild had the rep to help anyone else out with crafted epics... but it will still be there (to a lesser degree) for those still hitting 90 this week. But even having a guild grant alts and fresh 90s is gated... by the need to farm Motes of Harmony and Spirits of Harmony for the epic crafted items.
--
Guild leader of Pride and Ego
Immergruen (resto/boomie) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Agrende (discipline/holy); Esclavizado (blood/unholy)

Intelligence is no substitute for Character.


Ramikor

@comcastbusiness.net
reply to Nick D

said by Nick D:

The problem with dailies is that you have to log in and do them every day. It acts as a gate (fine), but it also means you don't have an option as when to play (not fine).

This is an excellent argument that I can agree with. This is different from profession dailies. If a person wants to gain the needed rep to open the valor vendor, his ability to do it should not be limited by whether he can play everyday, but by the effort he's willing to put into it. That's one of the reasons I think the rep requirement is too high, as opposed as the dailies being a bad thing. In the alternative, Bliz should have put in enough zone quests so you can reach the rep you need solely by doing the zone quests, even if that means a ridiculous number of zone quests. That way, you could grind out the rep when you can play just by finishing the zone. However, I think everyone is in agreement that you shouldn't have to grind the rep more than once.

djlar

join:2009-04-23
799228
reply to Immer

Dailies are a must on the guild, both to get GL patterns and coins for extra loot chance at raid...

The rest of VP cap can come from Heroics and now LFR, it's highly recomended to cap VP for that elusive piece that refuses to drop in raid..

Now for doing the dailies, at least on Mal'ganus there are plenty of people asking for grouping in dailies, so they go down fast, 15 mins tops you finish 3 tiers of GL dailies with a 3-4 man group.



Feralmordius

join:2011-01-18

said by djlar:

15 mins tops you finish 3 tiers of GL dailies with a 3-4 man group.

I agree. I believe that Blizz designed these for groups and wanted to bring people together to get these done. This ties into their whole world PvP, pitting one group of questers with another.

However this camaraderie does not seem to always happen. And thus the world is left with every man for himself.
--
Tiermordius on Nathrezim Server (US)
Main Tank for Pride and Ego


Tirael
BOHICA
Premium
join:2009-03-18
Sacramento, CA
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to Nick D

Realistically, the current system in WoW is a gating system not for reputation, but for raiding.

It's pretty simple to see. Most guilds (at the beginning of the raiding tier, so 3 weeks ago) were killing bosses in MSV with 463/1-2 pieces 476 gear. If you raid in MSV (which I am sure you do) then you know that a tank/healer/dps back then was about 5k-10k lower in dps than they would be currently (when most people are sitting at about 485 ilvl). It's the gating of content through stunted gear acquisition.

This model will fall flat on its face pretty soon. Simply put, I believe that once people have mostly 489 valor gear (about 7 pieces or so), then the content will become super easy. Then the crying of "why is this so easy" will happen. It allows Blizzard to not have to actually nerf the content (ala Cata raids) in order for people to see it.

Yes, this has happened all this time in WoW's history, and is generally the way content gets easier. However, the mechanics are not necessarily difficult in raids. They are more annoying than anything else. However, this all plays into the model. Instead of having to nerf content because they made it too hard in the beginning, they balanced it around gear 2 tiers ahead of what is available to you prior to stepping into LFR. This way, the content naturally progresses to lesser difficulty instead of "roflmaowaytonurfcontentblizz".

I am on the fence on how the system works. However, the current system will produce less QQ overall (I am already exalted with all the relevant factions of Pandaria and have started on a second character because I am a masochist), but still produce some QQ. At the same time, this way, content naturally gets easier, instead of becoming immediately irrelevant after one huge ass nerf. Pick your poison.
--
“Reality doesn't bite, rather our perception of reality bites.” - Anthony J. D'Angelo



stonhinge
Premium
join:2003-07-28
Topeka, KS

Plus, the gear in HoF and ToES is higher ilvl than the VP and MSV gear. Not a great deal, granted, but it does mitigate the previous expansions' issues with items of VP gear being "all that was needed".
--
When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets.



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

and IIRC the HoF LFR gear is higher ilvl than the MV reg gear.



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

as I haven't counted or paid attention much to ti can someone say what the amount of rep per day is for shado-pan and august?

I'm going to max rep on klaxxi tonight and then just have those to left to max out (well and anglers) and of course some of the tiller NPC's.

and I'm not bothering with nat rep.